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Subject:  Naming Seeds

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Marv!

Biggest is best!

It is still troublesome to me the way people are naming seeds. Almost all of the seeds now being grown are either from the Domingo or Big Zac lines. Why is it so difficult, if you know, to add the name of the actual variety to the seed name? An example would be Brown 7.25 (Domingo) or Wilson 4.0 (Big Zac). These names would be more meaningful than Brown 7.25 or Wilson 4.0. I wonder why growers are not doing this? I guess no one cares. It would be nice, as an example, when people are noting their plans for next year, to get an idea of whether Domingo, Big Zac or something else is being favored.

1/16/2020 4:08:50 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

I know much of the varieties by weight and grower. Wixom made things more complicated.

6.23 Konieczny, is it a Domingo or a MegaZac? Year matters.

Varieties will keep getting more difficult for new growers to sort out. I think that about 35% of the tomatoes planted that year were a recent cross. And each year there are more crosses of crosses. I am striking out so far this year, but still have a chance for a MegamuttD x Big Wixom. What to call that? Same three stable varieties in that cross as Big Wixom but with different percentages.

We maybe could get technical..and start to name the varieties by the % of stable variety...such as 50B50D for 50% Big Zac and 50% Domingo.

But, that fails...Big Marley and Wixom Slammer would have the same numbers..but they are different.

Marv,I still have plans to cross the DelBrut with your DelMar,..i might have to grow some out, might have to cross multiple time before I find a combination I like. If I have two different crosses, from the same unstable source, are they the same variety?

1/16/2020 5:34:13 PM

Orangeneck (Team HAMMER)

Eastern Pennsylvania

For me personally, I don’t bother with naming the variety because I don’t understand it. For instance, why is a seed from one tomato just called a Domingo, while seeds from another tomato get a new fancy name like big Wixom? How do I get to name my own seed something new and cool?

1/16/2020 5:38:54 PM

Porkchop(team sLamMer)

Hammer pants NY

Lol...yea!!... what gives!!??...

1/16/2020 5:40:41 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

orangeneck...is a female domingo flower crossed with pollen from a male Big Zac, a domingo or big zac. It is neither, it is a cross. So, to answer your question..to name a variety, you need to make a controlled cross.

1/16/2020 5:57:12 PM

wixom grower (TEAM HAMMER)

Home of the 12 lb tomato

First with marv's point, it seems to me with most of the weight off sites in October don't bother posting the veriety name even when you give them one !!! Weight off sites don't seem to care about what we are trying to do here in the tomato form. Orangeneck the big wixom is an actual cross not just a Domingo tomato ! Im sure that you are just screwing with me anyways.
For the most part their isn't many new crosses that you can make with the gaint verieties available that haven't already been made. For me all im going to try is to hopefully improve the domingo tomato if i can.

1/16/2020 7:11:29 PM

wixom grower (TEAM HAMMER)

Home of the 12 lb tomato

First with marv's point, it seems to me with most of the weight off sites in October don't bother posting the veriety name even when you give them one !!! Weight off sites don't seem to care about what we are trying to do here in the tomato form. Orangeneck the big wixom is an actual cross not just a Domingo tomato ! Im sure that you are just screwing with me anyways.
For the most part their isn't many new crosses that you can make with the gaint verieties available that haven't already been made. For me all im going to try is to hopefully improve the domingo tomato if i can.

1/16/2020 7:11:32 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

Is there a difference between the 5.03 Boudyo Big Zac and the 5.07 Boudyo Big Zac. It appears to me there is a difference. Hence..the difference between the crosses utilitizing one or the other. 95% of open pollination is pure. That other 5 % throws variables into it. Hence the difference between the wixom slammer and the big marley. We can get really technical in the future..or we can just determine the variety is Big Tomato. 10 years from now....we have 100 varieties...of controlled crosses.

What do you want to do Marv?

1/16/2020 7:51:49 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

right now, I think there are about 6 growers that have had success with emasculating a tomato blossom and growing a true cross. That number will increase. I think variety, in the future is going to blur....plant characteristic will become predominent.

1/16/2020 8:16:04 PM

wixom grower (TEAM HAMMER)

Home of the 12 lb tomato

I supose their is a difference between each big zac and each Domingo but im going to focus on the the 2 tomatoes that work for me and that is the Domingo ans my Megazac and these 2 verieties are still quite different.so for me their is still a lot of improvement to make.

1/16/2020 8:53:34 PM

wixom grower (TEAM HAMMER)

Home of the 12 lb tomato

Marv i guess what we need to ask is when the GPC weightoff sites will start putting the veriety names into the GPC listings when they are given to them ???

1/16/2020 9:40:55 PM

Carlo

Torino, ITALY

I agree with Marv, and with Bnot too: it would be nice to know what is what, but it's difficult, and increasingly so with all the crossing going on; maybe it could help to wait F3 to name a new variety, and call the F1 and F2 just crosses (eventually with the percentages)

1/17/2020 2:48:41 AM

Orangeneck (Team HAMMER)

Eastern Pennsylvania

Well the GPC won’t even signify in their records which pumpkins won a Howard Dill award so best of luck!

1/17/2020 8:00:32 AM

wixom grower (TEAM HAMMER)

Home of the 12 lb tomato

If i remember correctly you have to fill out the seed and veriety name properly on the early submission form for it to be excepted now ? So if we can get our weighoff sites to fill out the form the same way then the problem should be solved ???

1/17/2020 9:52:35 AM

Porkchop(team sLamMer)

Hammer pants NY

Hey- the team competition is gonna have a “stick in the mud” award this year...just sayin

1/17/2020 10:12:18 AM

Marv!

Biggest is best!

I have the question but not the answer. It would have been possible to keep track of the genetics of our tomatoes had the GPC listings been more concise and had everyone not decided to do crosses and then cross the crosses and maybe later cross them again. And with time passing and more change I think we may not be able to keep track of what is going on even if we all wanted to. Don't get me wrong because I think making crosses is a good thing. It is one way to get new seeds to grow out as we try to move forward. What I am using as a solution for me at this time is to not grow any seeds that I am uncertain of their parentage, their history. I will keep my records and if I give someone a seed I will also be making them aware of the history of that seed. My original post was to express concern, not to stir the pot. By the time everything is really screwed up I will be gone anyway.

1/17/2020 10:31:53 AM

wixom grower (TEAM HAMMER)

Home of the 12 lb tomato

If you mean "stuck in the mud" award i won it hands down last year !!!

1/17/2020 10:35:55 AM

Marv!

Biggest is best!

Porkchop, am I a candidate for the "stick in the mud" award? And if so, any plans for the prize? And thank you for your generosity with the seeds you sent me. Not everyone has been so giving the last few years. I will be planting them all.

1/17/2020 10:38:10 AM

Porkchop(team sLamMer)

Hammer pants NY

If I’m being honest , yea...yer definitely in the running...but something tells me you could have some competition...pulling for you this year...good luck

1/17/2020 10:47:23 AM

Materdoc

Bloomington, IN USA

I think that in the future variety names will be meaningless because I expect that genetic testing on plants or fruit will be much less expensive & more available.
We will probably be able to take a Qtip, swab our most vigorous/productive plant & then send it to the equivalent of Ancestry or 23 & Me and receive a really confusing report saying the plant is 3% Lithuanian, etc.
Can I nominate myself for the "stuck in the mud" award?

1/17/2020 1:50:08 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

I have wanted to do that already Materdoc. Just think how much improvement we can make if we know gene sequencing. 5 years ago, when all there were was the stable varieties, it was told to me that I could not identify the variety from plant characteristics. For all we know, some of the varieties could be so close in gene sequence that they are the same variety. Tomato growers won't stop trying to improve..we keep finding new things to reach higher levels. I think we have much further to go.

Is there going to be a sand award? With my new garden I don't know what mud is...but sand...i have way more than enough. I don't know what my time availablity will be next summer. Better than last summer I hope. Drip feeding hydro solution onto the sand might be possible. I still think my garden next summer will be B level...eventually, might make it back to A level.

1/17/2020 3:39:31 PM

wile coyote

St. Paul, Minnesota

The only Sand award I can think of is Biggest Sandbagger. Bob can send sand from his grow area to the winner as the prize.

1/17/2020 4:33:07 PM

SaladDoug_UK

Hertfordshire, UK

@Materdoc - I think that type of test would be cool, even if a low cost version may be a little way off yet (the mrs did the ancestry version).

@bnot - I think there's a lot to be done with classic plant breeding. Throwing the odd gene in here or there won't solve lots, the overall physiology of plants is controlled by some many genes that it's really the equivalent of poking it with a stick. A more holistic approach of selection likely.

Carol Deppe's "Breed Your Own Vegetable Varieties" is a good read.

Rigorous selection on big volumes of plants after a cross is definitely the way to go (the volume needed for F2 rather than the F1), and i suspect our reliance on the outcome of a single megablooms means a lot of opportunities to "pick the best" many slip through the net if this is the only criteria used.

@marv - I likewise like to keep and display the seed history. It is not always possible (reading forums) when it's not some of the seeds in the top listings to know what's what - but i guess that's the way it goes. I also only grow ones I know the history of.

I've gone back to those who keep the GPC listings page upto date with seed details for my tomatoes, when they appeared without as i'd also like people to know should they want seeds etc. I'm still trying to update the: https://tomato.giantstogrow.com/ which is a bit fuzzy at linking tomato family trees due to the data entered sometimes.

1/18/2020 5:31:15 PM

TheOzarkan

Ar

My wife raises registered Kune Kune pigs and they have to be dna tested before they can be registered. I think the cost is around $30.00. We send the samples off to UC Davis. I wonder if them or another college would be interested in doing tomatoes.

1/24/2020 11:30:29 AM

Total Posts: 24 Current Server Time: 4/5/2020 9:51:41 PM
 
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