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Has anybody been watching his diary , especially the last few posts about the CO2 set-up and effects/ What do you think? Maybe the way to 3000?

7/3/2019 5:22:59 PM

Western Massachusetts

Absolutely. He will have an awesome year if all goes well

7/3/2019 6:24:34 PM

Reading, Pennsylvania

I'm following , Matt is wicked. the mad scientist

7/3/2019 7:54:38 PM

Bethlehem CT

HIs diary is by far my favorite this year.

7/4/2019 7:05:14 AM

Grittyville, WA

Way to be ahead of the curve Mr. Debacco. Really fantastic stuff.

7/4/2019 7:02:57 PM

Sharon, MA

Matt is an excellent grower. Looks like he got an early pollination. Can't wait to see his next posts.

7/5/2019 2:08:18 PM

Connecticut

Thanks for noticing. I put a lot of time into each diary entry and I try and provide something for new and seasoned growers.

The structure and CO2 additions are part of a 5 year coordination effort and hours of research. I am not sure how it will turn out, but so far indications are positive and more updates are planned.

If there are any specific questions you have, please let me know.

-Matt D.

7/6/2019 8:12:20 PM

Watlington, UK

Great diary Matt. I notice you use rooting hormone on nodes when burying vines, but no myco?

7/7/2019 4:16:20 AM

Connecticut

Thanks for the comment Gerald, you are correct I am only burying with rooting hormone (CloneX).

7/7/2019 10:54:11 PM

I can't see where you used any myco at all, so how does your root mass compare to myco?
Would there be any benefit to spreading myco throughout the soil along with the clonex at the nodes?

7/8/2019 8:12:54 PM

Could CloneX cause a temporary slowdown in vine growth or anything else to watch for while the rooting hormone takes effect?

7/8/2019 8:22:15 PM

Morgantown, WV

I second Spudder's question. I tried the same on a watermelon and felt it had adverse effects after a month or so. How much rooting hormone can you put on a plant before it's too much?

7/8/2019 8:51:41 PM

Connecticut

spudder (post 1)
You are correct, no myco was added to my vine burying this year only the CloneX gel at the nodes. The CloneX gel is not something new for me, I have been doing this for about 5+ years after learning/seeing the effectiveness from a long time grower Art K. I would say the rooting is the same with or without myco because remember myco is a fungus that forms a symbiotic relationship with the root/plant. For about the first month of contact the myco takes sugars that the plant produces since it can photosynthesize. Then after this initial interaction the fungi is able to grow and as a result can increase the surface area the roots have access to. This gives the plant a better ability to pull limiting resources from the soil.

However, in the case of soil prepared for giant pumpkins there is typically an excessive amount of nutrients already present which may reduce the full benefits of the myco. The rooting hormone induces more root cells and can help increase the actual root mass and area which will also increase the chance for root to nutrient contact. While spreading myco will not hurt, the cost to benefits must be assessed.

7/9/2019 11:26:13 PM

Connecticut

spudder (post 2)
I have not seen any slowdown in growth due to the hormone being applied. What to look for is the root branching which is typically increased compared to roots that do not have the CloneX applied. I have seen this first hand when I had virus come in an ruin one of my seasons I stopped applying the rooting hormone and it took a few days to get to pulling the plants. As I was removing vines I could clearly see where the hormone had and had not been applied. In fact, based on your inquiry I have posted the images in my diary under this year even though they were taken in 2014.

Diary Entry Links…
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=305498

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=305499

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=305500

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=305501

7/9/2019 11:26:24 PM

Connecticut

Dustin-
You are correct there is an ideal amount to add and over adding can cause negative effects. However, when I say applying to much I am referring to a high concentration of Auxin. The advantage of the gel is I could apply the entire bottle onto one leaf node and the concentration of auxin would be the same as one drop. (*The amount of auxin would be greater, but it is more about the concentration.) Think of it this way, if I have 100 gallons of water and I add 1 pound of fertilizer that dissolves in the water to create a solution. The concentration of that solution is the same in one drop or 99 gallons of water. Hormones work on the ppm (parts per million) level so the concentration is what matters not the volume.

Concentration comparison example...
http://www.fao.org/3/AD231E/AD231E05.htm

Hormodin is the most common root inducing substance that you can get different concentrations of...
https://www.ohp.com/Products/hormodin.php

Not sure how much you want to learn on the topic but here are some video lectures centered around plant hormones, auxin and rooting hormones if you are interested... (*link to the slides in the descriptions)

Auxin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05QTpQw3LGk

Plant Hormones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BNQm9hk9fI

Rooting Hormones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL96XdUX5c4

7/9/2019 11:27:31 PM

Grittyville, WA

Could you do a reverse test where the control was the older root? You say not older by much but the way roots grow (fast!) then how do we know thats not a picture of day 3 day 2 and day 1... Before we all go out and buy clonex! Unless you do thr contol in the other positions a test done that way could be deceptively reassuring.

Thanks for sharing what you are doing.

7/10/2019 1:07:30 AM

New York

How much do you go through on one plant over the season?

7/10/2019 8:58:14 AM

Watlington, UK

It's a good point from Glenoma Kins.

I've also had better rooting results than previous years, possibly due to the rooting hormone which I've not used before, perhaps other factors too, so this is purely anecdotal:

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=305451

7/10/2019 5:07:12 PM

Connecticut

Glenoma Kins-

Testing an older root will bring in complications as the hormone works best on developing (or initiation of) tissue formation. Auxin will induce rooting on older tissue but it does take a longer time which would look like poor rooting in an initial experiment. Also, high nitrogen fertilizers resulting in aggressive vine growth will also reduce the speed to root.
Looking at the leaves on the vine you can see they are mature leaves as the vine in the image was out much longer than what is shown in the image. The image depicts the abrupt change from using and not using rooting hormone and two notes with rooting hormone were shown to demonstrate it was not a one note anomaly.

Link to image: http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=305498

While the roots do grow fast the duration of time is enough to compensate for the typically quick initial growth. Looking at another image taken during this time (direct link: http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=305547 ) there are 3 addition nodes with mature leaves that have the same single root appearance as the shown control (no rooting hormone) treatment. To give a general time context I would say these are the estimated ages of each node in the image…

Node 3 (control) - 7 days
Node 2 (rooting hormone) - 10 days
Node 1 (rooting hormone) - 14 days

When dealing with hormones and cell signaling there are other complications when more mature tissue is used as you suggest compared to meristematic tissue that is actively differentiating and is more receptive to hormone signals. This is in part why the Anthesis hormone spray I developed needs to be applied 48-hours from pollination as timing with hormones to plant cell development can have a great influence which is why a no treatment control was used in this comparison.

I do not have any connection to CloneX, but based on my trials I can say that I have seen differences when using it and it is a product I do

7/10/2019 6:52:32 PM

Connecticut

Adam044
I would say 200-250mL per 1,000sq.ft. (about one plant size for me) is about what I am using. Also, keep in-mind that once opened the rooting gel should be stored in the refrigerator to maintain its concentration. If stored in warm temperatures the odds of the auxin present degrading increase.




Gerald
Thanks for sharing your experience as well. I personally do not have experience with the rooting gel you are using, but it seems to be in the same classification as the CloneX. My only question would be how “jelly” is the material? Can it easily be applied with a small paint brush and does it adhere to the plant material well?

7/10/2019 6:59:39 PM

Thanks for offering to answer questions,it is much appreciated. It is nice to see not only what is being done but why. Great advice for newbies or others on vine ending. You are giving easy to understand posts.

Why have you chosen the level of CO2 that you are using?

What would be the lowest level that would make a difference?

Would it be any use to use it early to get your plant a jump before the hoop house was taking down? Or maybe lithovit for outdoor growers would be better?

7/10/2019 8:47:20 PM

Watlington, UK

Yes it's a gooey gel, it's red so you can see where it's been applied. I use a cotton swab but a small paintbrush would work just as well. It sticks to the plant no problem and doesn't wash or blow off like a powder would. I can't remember why I chose this rather than Clonex but from what I can see Clonex works perfectly well and appears to be better known and easier to get.

My only regret is that so far this year I have only been applying it to the top node and not the bottom. It's top nodes that I have had problems with rooting in the past, but now I see from your results the effect it's had on both. So from now on I'll apply to both top and bottom nodes.

Keep up the good work!

7/11/2019 3:31:47 AM

Morgantown, WV

Thank you for the detailed answers Matt. I was aware of different concentrations of hormone even within the same product line, but was never sure when or why to use different strengths. I've also done side by side tests and found that generally the lower concentrations work better for me on most herbaceous cuttings.

On the watermelon, I believe I used Olivia's cloning gel which is a higher concentration than the clonex, and I believe also a two pronged product with salycilic acid in it as well. Perhaps it was too heavy duty...

7/11/2019 7:03:10 AM

Connecticut

spudder

Thanks for your comments, I try and any grower should have supporting reasons to whatever procedure they are implementing in the patch. Mine may be more detailed and scientifically supported than most, but sharing my thoughts so others can read (and hopefully understand) my chosen processes in the patch.

1.) Why have you chosen the level of CO2 that you are using?
Chosen level of CO2 = 800ppm
The reason is the data shows that 600-1000ppm offers plant benefits. Levels exceeding 1000ppm start to have decreasing rates of return with 1200ppm being the likely maximum with others arguing 1400ppm being the top level to enrich to. I plan on going into more detail in future writings, but for now this is a good summary source…
http://www.crophouse.co.nz/crophouse/pdf/CO2%20%26%20Plant%20Growth%20-Nederhof-PH%26G-may04-proofs.pdf

2.) What would be the lowest level that would make a difference?
Keep in-mind that normal CO2 levels in the atmosphere are around 400ppm. Levels above 400ppm would help improve the efficiency of photosynthesis. The difference in the plant would continue from 400ppm up to about 1000ppm with less noticeable difference above 1200ppm. However, the costs and equipment need to be considered and if you wanted to go through the set-up setting the levels below 600ppm would in my opinion not be worth the trouble of setting up.

7/11/2019 10:12:35 PM

Connecticut

spudder (contined)

3.) Would it be any use to use it early to get your plant a jump before the hoop house was taking down? Or maybe lithovit for outdoor growers would be better?
I think it would be a great way to give your plants a jump start. The small area of the cold frame makes for an easy to supplement with CO2. This year I saw a noticeable difference even at the early cold frame stage of plant growth.
In regards to lithovit I did a trial with RTI’s CO2 powdered product (very similar to lithovit) and did not see much improvement from untreated controls. *Link to data, charts, images and conclusions from a controlled greenhouse trial below…
http://www.team-pumpkin.org/rti.htm




Gerald
Thanks for your comments!
I started with a cotton swab but found it collected soil particles to easily so I switched to the paintbrush and have not gone back. Apply it to the top root and also the bottom for sure. If the root out the bottom has started to form coat the root in the hormone and the level of branching will be dramatically increased in the shortest amount of time because this is when the cells are actively dividing and differentiating.




Dustin
You are correct herbaceous cutting tent to work best with the lower end of the concentrations. In difficult situations (ex stressed plants or high nitrogen fed plants) high concentrations may be more helpful, or repeated applications of stock concentrations.
I have trialed the Olivia’s cloning gel and I personally found it to have poorer rooting when compared with CloneX. The gel material itself was inconsistent and the rooting rate was not as good as the CloneX.

7/11/2019 10:13:00 PM

Western Washington

Thank you for the info and the diary, Matt. I appreciate it.

8/17/2019 3:43:04 PM