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Oak Grove, Mn

Tanner and myself have talked about testing of Big Stem on tomatoes. I have considered trying it on my current round of hyrdo tomatoes. The plants are getting now too developed to have a fair test. In March...i intend to start 12 more tomatoes. I will try to pick a seed that is stable from many generations. These seeds will go into the hydro system...all plants exposed to the same nutrient solution, same lighting, same temps etc. !/2 of the plants will be treated with Big Stem...the other 1/2 will be the control group. What I am looking for is input into how I can make this test the most neutral. If you have any input on how to best approach this test,I would appreciate your ideas. I have received input from Tanner and Wixom Chris on application rates for the Big Stem. Is twelve plants going to be enough to get an idea. I will be posting results in my diary. Tanner has faith in his product...I intend to give it the fairest test I can.

1/16/2017 7:28:45 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

Very interesting experiment Bob. Do you apply Bigstem to the newly pollinated fruits? If so, how will you account for the differences in each blossom? Some megablooms will have more potential than others. If you have a large enough sample size, you could average the results from Bigstem treated vs. untreated. I don't know how many plants would be enough for a proper sample size though? Otherwise you could choose a variety that produces fairly consistanly sized fruits, such as a common hybrid. You could even try it on a cherry tomato plant. Use Bigstem on some of the fruits, and compare to untreated fruits.

Maybe Matt D. will chime in.....as he seems to be quite an analytical/scientific thinker.

1/16/2017 9:02:04 PM

Wixom MI.

you spray big stem on the plants, not the fruit ! big stem is a plant hormone that helps cell division for roots stem leaves and buds ! Matt's Debacco's product is for the fruit ! i think that you should have enough plants for a good trial. big stem is supose to help the plant to absorb other nutrients to get better plant results !!!

1/17/2017 12:19:11 AM

Minnesota([email protected])

Thanks for correcting me Chris. I guess I got the two products mixed up. Sorry.

1/17/2017 2:44:33 AM

Wisconsin

Your control group needs to be sprayed with the same amount of straight water each time the experiment group gets sprayed with BS and water

1/17/2017 3:00:37 AM

Oak Grove, Mn

thanks everyone...i know last year you used big stem on your tomatoes Chris. When doing this test I know I will be looking for your advice on when and how much big stem to use at the various plant stages. Tanner has admitted that he is no expert on tomatoes. Any further comments anyone has to make..i will appreciate.

1/17/2017 5:35:16 AM

Ireland

To run it properly I would consider 3 to 4 replicates of 12 plants/rep under the exact same conditions i.e. temperature, humidity, lighting etc for the trial to be sufficient. As Doug14 said, you will need a control (this is very important!!!).
Micheál

1/17/2017 11:41:07 AM

Austin MN

Thanks for the post Bob :) I have the BigStem ready and will ship out soon! I have been iced in the last few days so I was unable to get to the post office.

I think this will be a really great test and I am excited to see the results. I think working with Chris as he had great results will help dial in the application time! I feel confident in BigStem but tomatoes are new to me so working with a expert grower will help get the application time dialed in for best results.

Thanks again Bob for helping me really put it to the test! :)

1/17/2017 9:53:15 PM

Connecticut

Sorry I am late to the post, as I am not checking posts on a regular basis.

First off, it is great to see discussion of how to conduct research ahead of time as this is the proper method to go about collecting data. This is called “A priori” instead of the other way to analyze the data after the fact “post hoc” which is what many people end up doing even though it is not the proper method.

Also, I encourage you to contact me directly because there is more to discus than can be effectively covered in a message board post (as I have hit the 2000 character limit yet again;-), but I do want to touch on some main points.

-Sample Size (Are 12 plants enough?)
To determine the proper sample size there needs to be a basic idea of a few key factors such as population, margin of error, confidence level and standard deviation. Here is a link to some more information on this topic…

https://www.qualtrics.com/blog/determining-sample-size/

1/26/2017 8:26:30 PM

Connecticut

-Experimental Design
I know it sounds like you are doing the best to keep conditions the same, but there will be variations. Some quick examples would be the plants on the edge row have different lighting than those in the middle. Also, those on the corner have different conditions that the others. Other factors such as air circulation, temperature and humidity can vary even in a small space. In greenhouse studies there are variables on a small section of bench top so there needs to be a way to try and reduce these potential impacts. In short there are completely random, randomized block, Latin-square, nested, and factorial experimental designs to consider. Each has benefits and drawbacks so a design of best fit should be selected to match the study.

More detailed descriptions with good examples in a PowerPoint format…
eweb.furman.edu/~wworthen/bio222/expdesign.ppt

As a result if I can see your initial experimental materials and methods I can then make further suggestions or point out limiting factors. I know that it may sound easy to run a comparative test but in order to perform it properly there are a lot of variables and set-ups that most people take for granted.

1/26/2017 8:26:39 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

Thanks Matt....I most certainly appreciate your input. This weekend I will send an email to you,outlining what my capabilities are and my current ideas. Perhaps outdoor hydroponic might be better. I want to give Tanner and the growers here the best test grow I can.

1/26/2017 8:50:20 PM

Connecticut

No problem, let me know more about your set-up/initial plans and I will do my best to try and draft a "best case" scenario.

1/26/2017 10:56:53 PM