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Radda in Chianti (SI) Italy

Hi all.
We grow AG since 2008 and each year our main problem is stump foaming. This year 'we did analyze a foamed stump. results showed fusarium and batterical issue.
What is your opinion about experience-foaming stump?

11/22/2013 12:08:59 PM

Saegertown Pa.

Go to the OVGPG web sight and go to articles and go down to June 2009, Blowing the froth off mr foamy by Ron Wallace. I think this might help you.

11/22/2013 12:46:02 PM

Radda in Chianti (SI) Italy

Hi quinn. Sorry the file is damaged http://www.ovgpg.com/documents/articles/ovgpg6-09.pdf
Thanks!

11/22/2013 1:31:08 PM

Eurasia

actinovate helps!

11/22/2013 4:40:50 PM

Eurasia

...helps to prevent, when you apply it with the first symptoms. But better you admix actinovate to the soil with set out and when burying vines.

11/22/2013 4:45:57 PM

Radda in Chianti (SI) Italy

hi all!
Since 2009 i'm using microrganism on my soil plant but it doesn' t avoid the problem. I also changed soil 3 times antil now but the problem is Always there!
I suppose that the mine-true problem is batterical.
How do you manage it?

11/24/2013 1:47:56 PM

Eurasia

actinovate is a special strain of Streptomyces lydicus and much more effective against fusarium then the mycos you used. We can´t buy actinovate in Europe, and so you need a friend in the USA, who wants to send 2oz. for your first tries.

11/24/2013 3:38:02 PM

Radda in Chianti (SI) Italy

I suppose thath we have all we need conserning beneficil microrganism! www.agrifutur.it

11/24/2013 3:49:17 PM

Torrance, Ca.

The Actinovate works great early season then late August, it seemed the Fusarium ate all my beneficials like candy :(

There has to be a plan in place to better manage the disease for the second half of the season,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

11/24/2013 4:15:00 PM

Eurasia

In hot summer I cut the foliage of the first yard vine after the stump and shaded it with a orange plastics shade house, while I fertigated the main and secondaries further on with actinovate. It was some curious to shade the stump and let the fruits fry in the hot sun, but I wanted to have deep orange to lobster-red fruits, and it worked excellently good with actinovate and the naked mains a yard from the stump.

11/24/2013 8:03:01 PM

Eurasia

In hot summer I cut the foliage of the first yard vine after the stump and shaded it with a orange plastics shade house, while I fertigated the main and secondaries further on with actinovate. It was some curious to shade the stump and let the fruits fry in the hot sun, but I wanted to have deep orange to lobster-red fruits, and it worked excellently good with actinovate and the naked mains a yard from the stump.

11/24/2013 8:03:01 PM

Leerdam, The Netherlands

hi stefano,

may I suggest;
http://www.gvgo.ca/articles/article_landry02.pdf

Hope it is more or less the same...

regards,

Iwan

11/25/2013 6:28:26 AM

Radda in Chianti (SI) Italy

Ciao Iwan.
Thank you for helping!

11/25/2013 12:43:22 PM

Eurasia

Captan is only for prevention in professional nurseries, but not an effective treatment in your AG-Hobby-garden, like in that Canadian link.
Captan powder never can be a standard treatment: you yould make your diseases resistant.
You have to examine which pathogen you have to fight, instead of standard poison.
Captan is not allowed in European hobby gardens and will be banned completely until 2017.

11/25/2013 1:11:02 PM

Eurasia

I do not tolerate that old pap-style here at bp-message board, that tolerates every standard poison in the garden.
Furthermore this captan kills my beloved Streptomyces lydicus in the best fusarium prevention actinovate.

11/25/2013 1:25:26 PM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

Any one ever read up on willow tree's,salicylic&asprin ,then read on asprin&plants.got the willow tea brewing allready myself.

11/25/2013 2:01:17 PM

Rhode Island

hey pumplobster---your posts make little sence.
why not make like the turd that you are --- dry up and blow away?
pap

11/25/2013 2:43:58 PM

Torrance, Ca.

lol

11/25/2013 3:39:03 PM

Eurasia

Oh, it makes sense awfully well, Sir.
You posted lists with poisons for the garden with advices for novices here at bp-message board that weren´t kosher at all. I can understand, that you do not wish to show the elder Mr. Wallace up as to grow irresponsible, but you have posted this lists with poisons so often and did not want to be more responsible-minded...
I can fully understand, that you banned me from this forum two times, but many growers here already suffer neurological disorders (like mine) through poisonous plant protection and do not want to die so soon. Assad had to disarm, but Wallaces do not want to give up the nerve gas mister blower.

11/25/2013 6:11:59 PM

Rhode Island

unfortunately what you seem to not understand is that most on this site consider you a joke. your posts are rambling and make little scence and, in this hobby? results matter a lot more than words.

any advise i have ever given refered to things we have actually done - not suggested from some random list of obscure words.

your just a little man sitting behind a computer spewing insults because he feels there are no repercussion.dont you ever get tired of talking to yourself?

pap

11/26/2013 8:54:48 AM

Farming- a bunch of catastrophies that result in a lifestyle

Zuccabiodinamica:
I'm new so this will probably get jumped on, but I used a combination of neem oil mixed with captan on the one that started to foam this year. It stopped it cold, and didn't return. I painted the rest of my stumps with the mixture and they never got it. I mixed up the neem as directed on label and added the appropriate amount of captan. It helps a lot to keep the stump area very dry too by building a little 'roof' over them- this amounted to 2 jars of home made spaghetti sauce I was throwing out anyway and a metal lid that sat on top over the stump. kept the rain off the stump in about a 18 inch diameter circle.

11/26/2013 10:26:06 AM

Eurasia

Oh, giant Zeus statue Wallace, I never query whether you have commited that garden poisoning, before giving advices.
Please understand that US economy can profit by selling actinovate from Texas, and you should not kill this good bacteria with the bad chemical substance that expires and is old as you.

11/26/2013 1:19:31 PM

BC, Canada

LB, re: mixing neem with other things. I think it is a great way to go. This came up recently in another thread. Generally it seemed like most thought it a not good idea. I see the neem oil being used as a "sticker" to help locate or hold the other product being applied, with the added benefit of the properties of the neem oil. I would guess most here have used a horticultural oil or done winter dormant oil spraying which is lime sulfur mixed with a horticultural oil. I know it isn't exactly the same and straight across comparisons/assumptions aren't always true. But, science (learning) is a process of continuing experimentation and observation. You did it, it appeared to work. Try it again, if the plant doesn't die or blow up and disease is mitigated you can assume it is working. It isn't a controlled experiment with untreated plants as a comparison true, so maybe there are negatives. I don't know. I just know that I mix neem with other products and have for a few years now with good success.
Everyone, please always read product labels thoroughly. Boring but can save the day.

11/26/2013 1:42:05 PM

Radda in Chianti (SI) Italy

Hi all.
I'm sorry that you end up arguing. At the bottom BP is ranning to allow people from all over the world can compare opinion with Others to improve our hobby. it is important to respect those who have an 'opinion differs from ours! I agree that organic is healthier than chemical but if you want to be competitive I think we need to find the right compromise.

11/26/2013 1:51:43 PM

Radda in Chianti (SI) Italy

LB thanks for the tips. In the last two seasons I've covered some of my stump. When I realize that something is wrong I open the stump. Sometimes I find the sap and everything seems to be healthy (white). Sometimes the cavity is already browned. How do you handle this kind of problem? You also cut off the stump and the main vine until you find the healty vine section? We would need something that does not allow damage to the lymphatic channels.
S

11/26/2013 2:25:19 PM

Radda in Chianti (SI) Italy

Ciao LB
Interesting 's use of' neem oil as a tackifier for contact products. But when the issue is inside the lymphatic channels, what can be done?

11/26/2013 3:24:50 PM

The North Coast

The solution is out there if you want to soak it in for a while?????

11/27/2013 3:14:40 PM

Eurasia

Captan on the stump + fan for the stump = poison all over the garden and in neighboring houses.
Better use actinovate the whole season.

11/27/2013 3:41:44 PM

The North Coast

treating the symptom and not the cause...solution...soak it in...

11/27/2013 4:34:00 PM

Torrance, Ca.

I've also used " Jack Daniels " on my stumps with great success!

Plant seemed to love it too :)

11/27/2013 5:58:32 PM

Santa Rosa, CA.

Chris

11/28/2013 10:10:48 PM

Torrance, Ca.

Russ

11/28/2013 10:17:55 PM

Eurasia

...Russians take vodka you wanted to say, I think.

11/29/2013 4:58:12 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Geeze and I happened to like that Canadian link. LOL

Water Movement in Pumpkin Plants.
By, Russ Landry, GVGO summer news letter 2012.

What I need to know is why does my plants stump and main vine area have a white foamy liquid dripping from it? What is cavitation? How is cavitation caused in plants? How can I help my plants to avoid this condition?
In the past we have often thought of foaming stump as a viral or fungal condition. In fact very little was understood of the condition or its causes until recently. As pumpkin growers we constantly strive for ever increasing size and girth of our burgeoning fruit. The questions we ask are now resolved as more becomes known about this size limiting and often fatal plant condition.

Xylem cavitation of pumpkin plants is the formation of vapor bubbles of the flowing liquid in an area where the pressure of the liquid falls below its vapour pressure.

The term I am using is called inertial cavitation. It‘s the process where a void or bubble in a liquid rapidly collapses, producing a shock wave. Such cavitation often occurs in pumps, propellers, impellers and results in pock marked damaged resembling small pits and fissures in the components.

In the vascular tissues of plants conducting rivers such as pumpkin plants main vines, inertial cavitation damages or ruptures the channels & cells of the river we have come to know as the “Calcium Highway” or xylem.

11/29/2013 4:05:47 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Pumpkin vine, xylem cavitation or as we have come to refer to as foaming stump ultimately reduces a plant’s capacity to move water and nutrients from the soil to the leaves and sinks. Its primary cause is one of unsustainable canopy transpiration rates during high heat and low humidity. The result is in lowering of the xylem hydraulic water pressure causing cavitation, embolized (gas-filled) bubbling and ultimately whitish foaming stump percolated from the damaged vine stem.

Leaf stomatal closure prevents further cavitation and desiccation of leaf tissues by reducing transpiration. However this reduces fruit growth by slowing carbon fixation or sink storage.

Several precautions can be taken by growers to protect plants and allow for normal canopy respiration of xylem flow and transport exists.

1.    Provide a micro climate for your plants: Growers who mitigate the effects of hot, dry days often experience less problems with foamers. Reduce transpiration by using shade covers to lower air temperatures. Water mist to lower air temps and increase cooling evaporation.

2.    Supplement the leaf surface environment: Use anti desiccant sprays such as CO2 and or Relief to control high transpiration.

3.    Supplement the soil moisture: Ensure

4.    Provide of all plant nutrients in the soil: Test solubility of all soil nutrients, focusing on calcium and other micro nutrients. Note, simple soil tests do not address soil water solution deficits of nutrients. A & L labs can run separate soil tests to determine solubility of elements.

11/29/2013 4:07:34 PM

Ontario, Canada.

That's my opinion.

11/29/2013 4:08:06 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

My opinion is that there is not a chance in this lifetime that you will grow a WR pumpkin with nothing more than the addition of gypsum,oyster shells,compost and rye!! That's my opinion.

11/29/2013 7:15:21 PM

The North Coast

it is my experience recently that a lot of seeds can contain potential pathogens. Some seeds have a bit more the genetic tolerance then others. Just saying that this seed is disease free because it came from a disease free plant is hogwash.growing big ones is all about controlling variables.it is be coming more obvious to me where are things out of our control going on inside the seed. my winter project is too aquire means to disinfect seeds. The academic research and studies show that a disinfected seed will grow better and have fewer problems.if you want to know more about what I am talking about just google seed disinfection. wouldn't it be a wonderful thing to know that the only thing inside of the seed are great genetics.

12/2/2013 8:18:19 AM

Farming- a bunch of catastrophies that result in a lifestyle

Hi Zuccabiodinamica, sorry for it being so long between replies. I opened my foamer up, it was painful! :} But the plant continued right on growing and adding weight to the kin. I sliced out the bad portion, and maybe an inch past it, 'painted' it with the neem/captan mix and let it sun dry for a few hours, then put the cap back on over it. When I does with the surgery the vine was still attached to the stump but sorta cut longwise with the vine to remove all the bad stuff. I figured at that point it was an experiment worth trying, but I'm new.

12/2/2013 2:07:35 PM