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Queensland, Australia

Hi All,
I know this has been discussed many times before, however with the potential of some outstanding results to come soon, thought I might ask the question again.
I also work as an agriculture extension officer in Queensland Australia and our government has the ambition to double ag production by 2040.
This sport has outperformed most agriculture in its recent performance i.e 1996 first 1000lber now officially doubled to over 2000 in 16 years.
Obviously these giants are aimed at feeding or clothing the world, however there must be something here to learn that can contribute to other ag industries.
What do you think has contributed most?
I am a big believer in the spread of information, particularly via the internet has contributed significantly to the enormous gains.
Would love to hear others ideas and produce a paper to present to my work colleagues.
I also look forward to how quickly we can double the current world record.

Cheers
Clinton

10/4/2013 4:32:01 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

They would never spend the $$$ needed for regular agriculture.

10/4/2013 7:21:59 AM

Bethlehem CT

I think the teamwork with everyone working together, sharing seeds and info has really been what has made the difference. This is all a credit to the internet and websites like big pumpkins.com. By breeding and crossing only the best with the best, the seeds today are so much better than they were even 6 years ago. I am sure if people worked together with other crops we would come up with some equally amazing results.

10/4/2013 7:41:15 AM

N.c.

Hey Down Under,
Just what big moon said.To me two components are critical. Collaboration and competition sprouting achievement. Proven seeds and proven growing techniques are shared. The desire to grow the biggest pumpkin is coupled with the desire to produce a seed with your name on it that is sought by other growers. The larger the circle of growers the quicker results can be obtained. Internet access to a central information forum/storehouse like BigPumkins.com can provides a multiplying effect.

10/4/2013 8:13:24 AM

New England

This is only my first year growing but I've done a lot of research this year

I think it's a combination of a lot of things: Everyone working together and truly studying each seeds genetic potential. It's not at all like modern agriculture where the seeds are owned and sold by corporations. giant pumpkin seeds are bred and selected to be grown the next year based on key factors: size and weight of the pumpkin, color, rigorous plant, healthy plant, disease resistance, weather tolerance.

In addition; there's been a lot of advancements in knowledge of the "ideal" growing conditions: how much water does each plant need, the exact ideal soil condition to maximize growth, how much fertilizer it needs at any given time, concentrated pest control, shading that individual fruit from any weather conditions, proper drainage.

In modern agriculture they've just let corporations develop seeds that resist anything and everything needed; it's not the same as breeding and selecting each generation (the way it wouldve been done 100-200 years ago)

All of these environmental factors that affect a plant cost money to control and this can be an expensive hobby to control the factors in order to maximize growth potential. It would be a very expensive thing to do in modern agriculture.

10/4/2013 8:19:18 AM

Waterville, Ohio

I think all of these answers are spot on. Also bare in mind that although we spend a lot of money on this passion of ours, we're spending this money to cover an area of soil that is incredibly small relatively speaking. Such heavy amending couldn't be done economically in commercial practices; the initial cost would cut a substantial amount out of the profit.
Think of the top growers and the time, money and work they put into producing these giant results, realize they're tending to typically 5-10 plants in a general area of 5-10,000sq ft. Imagine multiplying all of these factors to the tune of hundreds of acres.

10/4/2013 8:37:43 AM

N.c.

Remember they have 20 years to achieve their goal. It seems to me the first hurdle is to economically improve their soil quality. My first look might be toward the application of molasses.

10/4/2013 9:16:23 AM

Zurich, Ontario Canada

How about the amount of time that is spent on one plant. You could not duplicate this in agriculture and expect to make a profit. Even if I got $1000 prize, i'm still only making $2/hr.

10/4/2013 10:22:23 AM

Waterville, Ohio

I can understand the addition of molasses as a good starting point, but the issue I have with implementing such a practice is that this product is used to stimulate microbial activity with the addition of sugars. Commercial farming uses chemical fertilizers why? Because it's cost effective in the short run for the farmer/grower. They need to profit from their yield in order to afford cost of living, mortgages, pay off loans, machinery, maintenance etc.. Unfortunately modern farming techniques destroy the structure of the very thing that is feeding the plant, the soil. The ability to use field litter as a feeding source supplemented with the addition of molasses may have a place in modern agriculture. This alone wouldn't increase yields, but it's more food for thought.

10/4/2013 10:43:47 AM

NE Kansas

Take a look at commercial corn. The yield has doubled within the last half century, but the protein content has been cut in half. If yields in other vegetables are doubled but the nutrition percentage drops by half, then how will this produce healthier people? If we eat the same quantity, our health would then decline due to the drastic drop in nutrients. If we double the quantity we eat then the amount of starches and sugars we consume would go off the charts. Obesity and all the other problems associated with it would skyrocket. Cattle are finished on corn for a maximum of 140 days for a reason. Going longer than that timeframe is disastrous. What ought to be the goal instead is to double the nutrient value of a vegetable, that way the farmer could potentially double his income and double the number of people he feeds while utilizing the same amount of space.

10/4/2013 11:33:39 AM

BC, Canada

Great question and replies. This is something that I have pondered a few times. AG techniques applied to commercial agriculture. ? After a few seconds thought I realize that what we have been doing is applying commercial techniques to a hobby, not the reverse. The info on calcium transport wasn't developed by giant pumpkin growers but by studies for commercial production etc. Humics and fulvics, cover crops,spraying mechanics, fungicides on and on. We borrowed from commercial development not the other way around. To tell a commercial squash grower to spend several hours on each vine isn't going to translate into increased production. Genetic selection for increased production isn't anything new either, this goes back a very long ways.
I'm guessing Nelson lives in corn farming country, yes the production of corn is amazing, in many ways. The US government puts billions in subsidies into that industry every year. Good or bad I don't know, but the point is cultural practices, money and politics will never be separated from large scale industry. Any industry.
Molasses? The first place I heard about molasses was Australia, they got the cane. But on a large scale it comes down to cost.
Down under, you want increased production? Check out the pot growers in Nimbin, I think there might be a couple (ha!)
Pot production is another area where intense small scale has shown large increases. This is because of price, $100 am ounce or $100 a ton? very different. Very different on large scale.
Yes the internet and wide spread availability of information certainly has played a part in AG size increases. Can this be applied to large scale food production? Very good question and certainly worth a look.
Good luck on it mate!

10/4/2013 12:56:22 PM

Stanwood, Washington

The thing that has contributed the most is that growers are obsessed and are willing to do whatever is necessary and spend as much time and money as possible to get a bigger Pumpkin. I am not sure that will ever translate over to commercial enterprises Where the primary goal is to make money.

If you look at the amount of money that a serious grower spends on a relatively small growing area and projected it out to a commercial scale, I would bet that it would calculate out close to $100,000 per acre. and thats not even counting man hours.

10/4/2013 1:59:10 PM

Has the average size of ag's gone up for those who do not sink the money into their patch as a result of keeping the family tree which also has meant the best genetics are getting passed on. (some of you long time growers might know if those weights are going up)
Compost tea is now being used on a commercial scale and that helps keep soil healthy.

10/4/2013 2:33:27 PM

Salem, OR

Here's my guess as to the factors, in order of importance:
1. Increased amounts of organic material in soil. The layman would be astounded
2. Genetics. If you cross the biggest with the biggest (more or less) sizes escalate fast, especially when wall thickness is also built up to allow pumpkins to go beyond what was once thought to be the limits if size due to pure physics (they started caving in)
3. Organic gardening. Go back and check the year most growers went organic and the. Look at the increase in weights

10/4/2013 3:21:10 PM

Queensland, Australia

Thanks for the excellent responses.
With 243359 posts in the general discussion forum and the next highest in seed exchange I ask the question where do you get most of your info from for giant growing? i.e where did you learn about molasses, compost tea, engage with other growers etc?
@cavitysearch, yes the crops grown at Nimbin have excellent production growth as well.
Cheers
Clinton

10/4/2013 6:10:36 PM

Rhode Island

unfortunately along with research,knowledge,experience,you must have drive and determination.

if you can get the growers to stick with it, learn and progress each year? then you can build results from amy group, state or country.

example - pls take a look at the smallest atate in the usa,rhode island.

for year a small pay no mind area, then due to committment and determination by the sngpg growers? we have had three word record pumpkins and several top ten gpc finishes over the past eight seasons.

it took everything mentioned above to accomplish this.

pap

10/5/2013 8:51:18 AM

N.c.

Thank you Pap! Well Down Under, as for the idea to use molasses it came from reading the pages of BigPumpkin.com via an experienced grower of big, beautiful, orange pumpkins, Linus Van Pelt, who regularly shares growing advice on this forum. But as for the dream, drive, and determination to grow a giant pumpkin? That came from reading a book, BACKYARD GIANTS, by Susan Warren. It is about Pap and his son and their quest to grow a giant pumpkin. I have been hooked on growing ever since.

10/6/2013 7:54:37 AM

Rhode Island

thanks for the kind words condo. we sure do know a lot about both sides of this crazy unpredictable ,weather driven hobby.
pap and ron

10/6/2013 9:02:56 AM

N.c.

John of Salisbury said "We are like dwarfs sitting on the shoulders of giants. We see more, and things that are more distant, than they did, not because our sight is superior or because we are taller than they, but because they raise us up, and by their great stature add to ours."

Condo say "Why wear out your own shoes when you can ride on shoulders' of giants?"

10/6/2013 10:28:57 AM