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Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

Well thought since iv obtained 3free deepfrezers if i cud have ice hanging round,to keep enviroment cooler araound a plant.then thought why not a tube system like dale has to run warm water threw.but have a tube system above ground,that had water inside bout 75%.i asked my buddy in the hvac repair said the freon cans you can buy would work if i squirted in my tube rigging.said it wud freeze instantly.any ideas?

8/26/2013 7:59:02 PM

Farming- a bunch of catastrophies that result in a lifestyle

I was thinking something similar as the boyfriend brought home two giant ac units his work was tossing. I was thinking along the lines of a heat chute like in the greenhouse for distributing the cold air for a few hours during peak heat times.....it's just a thought process, we southern growers are always trying to "beat the heat". LOL.

8/27/2013 7:11:02 AM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

Yep LB theres ways like that could be looked into.plus a pint of wiskey really gets thinking process going.

8/27/2013 8:33:24 AM

Annapolis Valley Nova Scotia

Could be an Idea.

8/27/2013 12:05:04 PM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

Thank ya.figured it mite not be a bad setup fill pipes once with water.then zap it when needed.wud be cheap&no electricity needed.plus pipes would condinsate probli&have suspended above plant &could drip on leaves.

8/27/2013 1:51:15 PM

Farming- a bunch of catastrophies that result in a lifestyle

*Cracks a Bud Light*
We are building some metal frame work to fit over each pumpkins square in patch. They all have a 16x25 rectangle that I'm busy pooping up as we speak. I want to put an A frame over each 'patch' so I can use opaque over winter film as a 'roof'. Measuring sun angle through the day, I have figured that 5 1/2 feet tall (I'm 5' 4, so no more stooping!!! Wooohoooo!) will allow for shade for the 4 hottest hours of the day, but allow for 'light' and mad airflow to get to them. The shade cloth worked great this year, but I'm after water removal- ie- it rains like it did this year I want to be able to control how much they get. I'd much rather pump water from the pond to water them than have their leaves constantly wet like this year. Wet leaves in this hot humid environment isn't worth a damn.

8/27/2013 1:51:36 PM

Farming- a bunch of catastrophies that result in a lifestyle

* ponders running the 'cool air' chute down center of each roof line* I made the chute for my greenhouse this year....had a 8" piece of flex duct left over, zapped some square holes in it, and wala! Heat chute....still got some of that too!

8/27/2013 1:54:58 PM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

Lol sounds like some good ole redneck injinuity.hopefully that'll help.keeping the sun off is one trick.then the challenge of the humidity(steam)in the air&even in the shade its like steping out the shower.

8/27/2013 2:28:29 PM

Annapolis Valley Nova Scotia

ideer & idea lol that cracks me up!

8/27/2013 3:16:33 PM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

:)

8/27/2013 5:15:52 PM

Farming- a bunch of catastrophies that result in a lifestyle

Where i am from about noon to four is the hottest, and strongest (least amount of angle to rays) Neem oil in judicious quantities is the only way i have found to beat the ambiant moisture in the air.....hence shade cloth as there is eniugh oil on em to fry eggs. Lol im pert happy w how they, the leaves have held up what w all the rain.

8/27/2013 5:45:52 PM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

Same here LB.Neem oil herd it mentioned b4.whats it do&how to apply.i used window screen for shade no wilting at all.but had no fans running to blow the steam away&i like my eggs over easy since your frying

8/27/2013 6:34:20 PM

Princeton Kentucky

Not to rain on your freon party but just a thought hear. I worked both roof top 10-50 ton AC Units, Commercial HVAC and Residential for many years in Texas and Cali. Even though your Idea is thinkable IMHO it is not doable. With out going into great detail you cannot just simple inject freon into a set of pipes and get results like your thinking it will respectfully. It may get cold for a few seconds and maybe even a few minutes but would quickly thaw out. Freon has to be pumped as a Low pressure gas from a condenser,(Your outside Central Unit) which then runs into a metering device, then runs into your "A-coil" in your air handler(Inside Unit), the freon turns into a High pressure liquid where it boils and you get your chemical change, Cold air across the Avaperator Coil(A-coil) the high pressure gas (around 200-300 psi) leaves the Acoil and hits another metering device (The Outside Condensing Unit) which then turns the freon back to a low pressure gas so the compressor can pump the gas and start the whole process again. Thee entire system is set up under around -45 lb vaccum to begin with on the low side. Sounds like you've got a "Cool" Idea until you realize what all it would take to get it up and running and I don't ever think it would be feasable or maybe even possible. Sorry if I come across negative, just lettin ya know it would be a B^%$# rhymes with Brew HA HA or Ditch. There will be a test in the morning so study,lol. Good Luck Man

8/27/2013 11:07:36 PM

Princeton Kentucky

Now with all that hoopla I just wrote about, there is something you all in the south should get your hands on for the summer, heck even us up here in the midwest,lol...Older residential Water Coolers. You see them setting outside windows on old abandoned homes before AC widow units were installed and on blocks in back yards never being used because of the easability of Window and central ac units nowadays. These units run on 110 volt and have a water pump that pumps water up and over lattice work that trickles downwards and as it does a fan blows air through the cool water falling and whala you have cooler air. Ya might look into those old water coolers that hardly anyone uses anymore. They are simple to work on and to repair and are very economical to run and can be thermostaticly controled. Good Luck Again wasn't tryin to be negative or judging in thee above post. Take care.

8/27/2013 11:16:22 PM

BC, Canada

Just checking BP before bed and read this thread. PGoober, you said what I was thinking. Not an AC guy but have used those water cooler units in greenhouse and barn setups. They are simple enough and cheap to run. If you have a plentiful and cheap water supply (deep well, cold stream, lake) that comes in cold you can recycle the water back to source and keep it cold. As a kid in Arizona many years ago we air coolers that trickled water across an excelsior layer and the fan would evaporate the water and make a cool breeze. It was the kids job to keep the water topped up. I have recently seen units like this referred to as Aussie coolers. Worth a shot. Trying to cool the whole outdoors might a little difficult. I think if you had a hoop house or canopy it would be a lot more effective.
Wishing heat was my problem.

8/28/2013 3:17:17 AM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

No negativity thinking at all.thank you pumpkingoober i thought it sounded to good to be true.thougt my hvvac buddy would have gave me straight answer but o well.
Never herd or seen the coolers you speak of.sounds like an idea.sorta had an idea like that this summer.having a glass payne or fiber opage roofing that water was pumped on top&run down&cause a wall of water.&have a catch on ground to collect&repump.course lots of detail in that.just mainly thinking which i like to do.better than watching tv.ill keep my eye open on the coolers tho.

8/28/2013 6:35:59 AM

Farming- a bunch of catastrophies that result in a lifestyle

I'm definitely not technically inclined enough to even give the converted Freon/ac thing a try. I've thought about doing a hoop house, except from experience trying to do cuttings in my greenhouse- it's unbelievably hot in the GH even with both big fans pulling as hard as they can. I've seen the water coolers in old produce houses around here, it's how they stored vegetables and fruits back in the good old days before refrigeration came into plentiful existence.
I've seen pix of the screen houses on here to that I would love to do, but airflow is a must here because of high humidity. If I did the screen house I'd have to invest in fans as well as the screen house. I planted them this year next to a waterway and between me spraying and the hoards of dragonflies the bugs didn't stand a chance- it's mainly heat and humidity that wreak havoc here for my plants.

8/28/2013 7:01:16 AM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

Think location would be good help.like you said LB you planted near a water way.which has cool air helping out.like if there was shaded ereas around the patch would help cool things down.probli could make shade structure around patch 30 40' out from edge might keep air cooler

8/28/2013 7:49:45 AM

Farming- a bunch of catastrophies that result in a lifestyle

I'd love to plant next to the pond- but that dirt is pure rock hard clay. YUCK. I think 'roofing' them will work out for shade and keeping all the wet off them, watch I will go to all this trouble to keep rain off them next year and we will have a drought!!! LOL

8/28/2013 11:03:13 AM

Princeton Kentucky

Knowing the old style water coolers as I do I will be putting in a couple even if I have to construct a couple and if I'm able to swing funds for the plastic on the screen house,lol. The bottom of these units have an average holding basin of 20 gallons so not too bad on keeping them full. Don't know what the humidity challenges would be, I say have enpugh cross ventilation and it would be fine. I'll try and find a pic and post a link here Yardman.

8/28/2013 11:32:39 AM

Princeton Kentucky

Been using the slang term for these coolers..the proper name for this particular unit is a "Swamp Cooler". Sorry about the loose prior term. Heres a link to check em out and theres a nice diagram that shows how the function and picture of some units for you to compare if you go out and try to find one..good luck:
https://www.google.com/search?q=swamp+cooler&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.51156542,d.b2I&biw=1366&bih=685&sns=1&wrapid=tljp137770447832408&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=MxoeUqHkDLPC2gXxzoHwBw#imgdii=_

8/28/2013 11:47:49 AM

Central Minnesota

I love the preface *Cracks a Bud Light* I could start a lot of posts with that one! LOL

8/28/2013 11:56:47 AM

BC, Canada

swamp cooler !
That's what they are called. Man, these old brains! Known that for 60 years and couldn't think of it. Thanks.
And LB you are right - They wold probably be adding huge amounts of humidity.
Anyone ever thought of running hydronic pipes in the ground? We just did a 1700 ft. addition to our house and I put in hydronic floor heat (son in law is a plumber bless him!) Works great. I have a huge pile of the PEX pipe left over and had wondered if I could put it down under the surface in the patch. Here I would use it to warm the soil and give a little heat to the hoop house early in the year. In A hotter climate could it be laid on the surface and used to provide a little cooling close to the leaves? Again, you would need a ready supply of cheap (free) cold water for it to work, I dunno- just a thought.
Yardman, I'm guessing your yard looks a little like mine! LOL Yesterday the wife gave me hell cause I put the pumpkin's blanket in the dryer to dry it before night time. Some people are so unreasonable. Anyone got a clothes dryer in their patch?

8/28/2013 12:34:38 PM

Bethlehem CT

Those type of evaporative coolers work really well in a climate with low humidity. Not quite as well if you deal with lots of humidity.

8/28/2013 12:49:17 PM

NE Kansas

I do in fact know of someone who ran two sets of hydronic in the concrete slab of his house. One set for heat and the other set is coupled to a reservoir that was just simply a septic tank in the ground. The reservoir is supplied with water from the bottom of his pond (which is deep and well shaded). He first determined where the thermocline level averaged during the hottest part of the year, including calculating low water levels due to drought and then set the inlet deep enough to ensure it would draw consistently cool water. The tank reservoir houses a filtering system to prevent sediment and algae buildup in the piping. The AC in his house runs only when the outside temperature peaks in the upper 90's for extended periods.

Here is the problem... How will your plant grow if you cool the soil to a groundwater temperature of 55 degrees? I think it will shut down.

My best estimate is that you would want to match the optimal air temperature range to the optimal soil temperature range. I believe it is a disparity between the two that cause the plant systems to shut down.

When my body heats up I start sweating. Sweat does not directly cool my body though. It is the heat exchange that occurs during evaporation that cools me. HVAC systems use a heat exchanger based upon this principle.

The systems that experienced growers already have in place put this principle to use and I believe that it is the best route to go:

Shadecloth to protect the plant from radiant heat exposure.

Misting devices to provide evenly applied moisture for evaporation.

Proper ventilation to maintain a moderate dewpoint in order to keep fungus and mold growth to a minimum.

8/28/2013 2:21:35 PM

Farming- a bunch of catastrophies that result in a lifestyle

I worked for a huge greenhouse company that used those swamp coolers in the summer time in the pointsetta houses, it was the one house I loved to be assigned to, was always nice and cool in there- but very humid. Looking out the window over the patch today- I sure don't need to add any more 'water' in any variety, the air looks 'smokey' it's so humid here today. I'm originally from up north, growing pumpkins here, any variety, presents challenges I never even had to worry about up there.

8/28/2013 4:07:33 PM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

Pumpkinggoober couldnt click on link but i googled it.&from what i read it wouldnt work here cause the humidity.have seen food storage building over springs in the hollers.sounds great anywhere else tho.
LB just go with &see what happens.yeah weather has fun with folks.i planted earleir than usually to beat heat &it took summer for ever
Cavity i think dale or j.d in alska has the pipes in the ground i do beleive.lol yes couldnt fit an ag in my backyard.

8/28/2013 6:44:47 PM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

Dang phone but my tomatoe cage is bak there&compost bin,bucket of lobster shells .bucket of eggshells in water breaking down.herd gagging otherday looked out the window&meter man was bent down checking sourounded by that lol.i moved it a couple feet over.then you drop down behind granmas house to my grandads old shop &it full of stuff iv collected.i just kept his pakrat going&granmas still gets to complain. Good woman.then i built a greenhouse on uncles land but could finish finacial&i wud have to just have a plant &no structures or water electrcity.so made a mess out my dads feild but still limited to what needs to be done.long storie short stuck here for now.but yes i got a mess of stuff.

8/28/2013 6:59:10 PM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

Nelson your right bout the experienced know what to do.im just a constant thinker. If sum humans werent that way we'd been driving wagons still i geuss

8/28/2013 7:08:22 PM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

Cavitysearch i did burn up the drier couple years ago. Duck tape plastic &coat hangers.rigged a greenhouse on top to start seeds&ran a drier vent into it for the moist heat to start seeds.glad i was single on that one cost me $100 to lol

8/30/2013 6:56:21 PM