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On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

I am wondering what some of the growers think about which mycorrhizae product is the best. I received a free sample of Great White Mycorrhizae from WorldWideGiantGrowers and it contains 8 different types of mycorrhizae. Can anything be better than this? I know Extreme Gardening and the Hollands each have a mycorrhizae product for sale. Which is the recommended one? Or are they all about the same? Or should we be using more than one?

2/27/2013 5:27:05 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

This might help you out Marv.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/msgboard/ViewThread.asp?b=10&p=417609

2/27/2013 6:17:59 PM

canal winchester ohio

Here is an excerpt from the link above & I have heard this from many people concerning Mycorrhizae.
"Several species fighting for domination doesn’t make a product better"

2/27/2013 6:27:54 PM

Upa Creek, MO

Look at the amount of spores and\or propagules. From what I get, spores are much better.

2/27/2013 6:29:52 PM

Muddy Waters

Great White has trichoderma in it.Which is why I use it.2012 was my first year trying Great white.2011 I used plant-success granular.Also my first year I had healthy kin plants to the end of the season.MikeORizey is only 4 strains of mycoorr & much more affordable if your looking for a bargain.IMHHO

2/27/2013 6:54:43 PM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Thanks Andy. I was cruising in the Carribeans and missed the thread which was long and brutal. I hope I have not started the whole thing up again.

2/27/2013 6:58:19 PM

canal winchester ohio

how much Great White Mycorrhizae do you use per plant. 8 oz is around $50-$60

2/27/2013 7:09:43 PM

Washington State

Hi Marv,

Take a look at our Soluble Maxx. It has 9 species of Endomycorrhizal Fungi, 2 strains of Trichoderma, and a whole host of beneficial bacteria, that are listed by name. Instead of being in a clay substrate like most brands, Soluble Maxx is suspended in a fine grade of soluble seaweed powder. We also have our Hydo-Sol which is a soluble formulation containing 4 species of Endomycorrhizal Fungi at 120,000 propagules per lb. and our BioGrow Endo Plus which is a granular myco with 4 species that are listed by propagules per gram and propagules per lb. at www.hollandsgiants.com Some brands that list multiple species include Ectomycorrhizal Fungi that are not appropriate for giant pumpkins.

Thanks, Joel & Mari lou Holland

2/27/2013 8:18:36 PM

Western NY

8 oz is around $50-$60.
why would you use this when other proven stuff is 50.00 for 5lbs

2/27/2013 8:43:32 PM

Take a look at Pumpkin Pro 95- 100% of all past and current World Record Holders, including the watermelon World Record used it.
The proof is in the pumpkin.
Lead, Follow, or Step Aside
www.extremepumpkinstore.com

2/27/2013 8:50:49 PM

43.841677 , -79.086692

I like the carrier better in the rti. The fine kitty litter is easier to apply than the larger and lighter grained material (vermiculite) carrier in the other brand. I also used Mykes water soluble applied once in July thru my sprinklers and washed in. I believe it was 1 pound pure. (No carrier). If I wasn't lazy I'd do the math but the 1 pound water soluble probably has more spores than 20 pounds of the mixed stuff

2/27/2013 9:08:06 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

The first year I used mycor it was M-Roots. Loved the ease of application and root development. Next brand I used was Bio Endo Plus. Great root development but a bit more challenging to apply. Last brand I used was RTI because we received it as a result of winning the SOGPG weigh-off. Loved the ease of application and root development.

Could we have achieved the same root development regardless od which brand we used? I don't know, but ease of application has become a major factor in deciding which brand we purchase.

2/27/2013 9:33:26 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

I would rather talk politics, sports or about each others wives as it only ends up bad everytime this question is asked

2/27/2013 9:50:35 PM

Muddy Waters

It's awl good!

2/27/2013 9:50:43 PM

Piqua, Ohio

Great White 1 tablespoons per 2 gallon water
I've never used it, but will try on a few plants.

2/27/2013 10:19:37 PM

Eugene,OR

I've had pretty good success with RTI.

2/28/2013 1:29:05 AM

Muddy Waters

Competition is healthy it brings on many good things.Imagine if there were only 1 car company & we all drove the same car.Trip/stumble/fall on your face.lol

2/28/2013 1:44:27 AM

Paradise Mountain, New York

One man loves a Ford truck and the next loves a Chevy. I feel if you buy two or three of the best ones in smaller amounts and mix them, your odds are better.

2/28/2013 8:13:58 AM

(rocky) Bonney Lake Wa.

Some of the top growers from what I gather have used both RTI and Hollands product with one or the other being the main souce of MYCO. I have heard that it is good to be somewhat diverse in some of those products. I mainly use RTI but I may ad in one of the other 2 products from time to time.

2/28/2013 11:09:44 AM

Muddy Waters

I'm always asked whats the best paint to buy?I do a lot of painting & have since the 70s.There is no straight answer for that question.There are 3 or 4 brands that make the top of my list.Most paint companys sell 3 grades of paint.1)apartment paint.2)contractor paint 3)homeowner Quality version.There are also now Super duper Versions at 60 a gallon & up.I think most things work this way.You get what you pay for.So if I put all my effort & time into my passion,will I use a low price product?when there is a better one available.Absoutley not!But if your on a fixed income.Using the lower product may suffice depending on your soils present condition.Great White offered to give samples of the MikeORizey instead of the 1 oz bottles for the memberships.I said NO,I believe the Great White is the best thing for me at this present time.I found some stuff for 190$ a Qt,that claims to be the best on the market.lol little rich for me.Claiming to be the best is hard thing to do to many factors involved.I cant afford the Lamborghini,but I dont want the Ford Pinto either.Most people dont like change,in less they find it on the ground.lol.I try to be open minded & try new things.I'm not claiming GW is the best but I thinks its a good product,which saves me money not buying tricoderma in a separate package.Just trying to explain where I'm coming from,which is hard to do on these forums.Have a great 2013!

2/28/2013 11:43:20 AM

Muddy Waters

Oh! If you would rather have a 4oz bag of MikeORizey with your membership I can do that! just request this in the comment box on membership form.

Worldwidegiantgrowers.com

2/28/2013 11:45:24 AM

Seattle, WA

I would recommend looking into a mycorrhiza that does NOT have trichoderma.

Here's just one research article abstract that explains why. Trichoderma has been shown to inhibit mycorrhizal infection.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12721818

Strictly looking at spores/gram (not cost), this is the best product for pumpkins that I've seen.

http://usemykepro.com/mykepro-product-mycorrhizae/myke-pro-ps3-specialty-crops.aspx

2/28/2013 1:37:11 PM

Seattle, WA

That being said, I sell the 100g packs of Mykos in my store, because people like the price.

I also carry Start Right from Hendrikus, which is an endo/ecto blend that I'm pretty sure they're sourcing from Mycorrhizal Applications in Grants Pass. However, I wanted to have a product for tree people.

For pumpkins though, don't waste your $ on an endo/ecto blend, because pumpkins only associate with endo-mycorrhiza.

2/28/2013 1:39:51 PM

Tad12, I bought the granular form from them through a local agro dealer. Is it the same as the powder form in your link,just a different way of using it?
I bought a 15kg(33 lb) bag for $80.00 Canadian last spring that is the premiertech website I mentioned on the forum a number of months ago when the subject was on the go.

2/28/2013 3:01:07 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

That's good to hear Tad. I'm trying to find a good product and recently found distributor of Myke's products just 15 minutes up the road.

2/28/2013 3:50:12 PM

Rhode Island

id suspect they all would be of help and either would be better than none however, ron and i have had excellent success over the years with rti myco. we would not switch.

root shield is another product we have combined in small amts in with the myco with very good results.

2/28/2013 4:33:41 PM

canal winchester ohio

the RTI/Rootshield combo is my favorite way to go .

2/28/2013 4:46:03 PM

canal winchester ohio

oops.. just a small pinch of kelp in there as well

2/28/2013 4:46:53 PM

Seattle, WA

Pap, I totally agree with you on that. Well said. Unfortunately it's difficult to compare Myco products, the only way to really do it is by spore count. But price is a factor.

Why would you add a trichoderma product to your myco application?

In my opinion, it would be much better to allow the myco time to infect/colonize the roots and get established(2-3 weeks) prior to any trichoderma application, based on the current research I've seen.

2/28/2013 4:49:48 PM

Torrance, Ca.

All the big boys talked about mixing the mico and rootshield together this past weekend at the convention.

All growing 1600 to 2000 pound kins,,,,,,,,,,,


I'm convinced!!!!!

2/28/2013 5:13:14 PM

Rhode Island

a lot of things we growers do may not make a lot of sence but they have proven to work with wr results.

we incorporate some of our rti myco as well in spring when we do a second cover crop,then till patch as needed in front of the growing plant.

root shield is a product thats been around for a lot of years. i remember researching it back in the late eighties.

pap

3/1/2013 8:36:51 AM

France

Pap, about tilling in front of the growing plant, I noticed the roots grow further than the plant. I did it 3 years ago but I broke many roots.

3/1/2013 9:33:01 AM

Seattle, WA

Pap,

I think root shield is an excellent product, don't get me wrong. I just question the timing of it's application. Has anyone gone back to check for mycorrhizal colonization? It seems very possible to me that the trichoderma would outcompete the myco at the time of application, either delaying colonization or inhibiting it altogether.

I think there are some amazing growers in this group, and I love how people are always trying new things and experimenting. The passion for growing that you see here is awesome!

I've just never understood the mentality that if a WR grower does something a "certain way" or uses a particular product, that it somehow trumps conventional science or information coming out of the ag industry. There are so many variables to growing a plant outdoors, chiefly environmental conditions as well as good plant genetics. I think it's hard to know in a patch what is causing plant health and plant growth, and what is innocuous.

3/1/2013 1:56:05 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

Ron and otherZ covered questionZ on the Heavy Hitters panel and many questionZ where asked. Too bad Tad you didnt come down and ask the heavy hitters your questions....it would help you to understandZ "OUR Mentality".....and you can get high genetic seedZ to grow...
I checked out your link about Trichoderma pseudokoningii (9 years old when the pumpkin record waZ ahhh....1000 poundZ or so lighter....??? and it mentionZ nothing of the same strains Trichoderma harzianum strain T-22, and Trichoderma virens strain G-41 that is used in RootShield and RootShield plus specific to the Myco StrainZ used....by AG growers... . You missed a great conference and a chance to learn about us up close. I beleive Ron said not mix them both together but apply SEPARATE Applications allowing the Mycoto get established.... as it is a BIG WORLD out there under the dirt in microbe land....and we all have to live together... Tad, next year we will be in Orland.... plan ahead... hope to see you there.

3/1/2013 3:48:23 PM

Muddy Waters

They said you had to grow watermelons in PHs lower then 6.5 for years.I grew mine in ph 7.9 so did others.I always keep an open mind.I dont believe everything they say.Why do the manufactures package something that wont work?? I will be asking, and will find out soon.

3/1/2013 4:17:47 PM

Muddy Waters

I just spoke with a lab tech for a very big nutrient company.He told he has never grown pumpkins But I think I talked him into growing one this season.lol He told me there product which is a mycorrs & trichos mixed in a liquid form.This is a neutral opinion I obtained. Not GW.He said he found plenty of mycorr colonization.he stated one doesnt dominate the other they find a balance.Im not looking to argue,I just want to get it right so I did some research.With Pap & Ron leaving the door wide open this year,I want to have my poop in a group.lol

3/1/2013 4:48:49 PM

Seattle, WA

Luke,

That's interesting, I need to do more research when I get the free time. I hope none of my comments come across as negative, because that is not my intention at all. I think very highly of the people in this forum, and their ability to grow.

I'd like to make it to one of these conferences one of these years. Since we opened the new farm/feed/organic hydro shop this year, it seems like all I do is work! We are really focused on educating the public though and getting people to grow their own food in their yards organically.

Handy,
In regards to pH, I've found that in a healthy organic system, the microbes will buffer the pH of the soil for the plants, allowing them to grow in pH ranges outside of what people say they can grow in. It's a very different mentality with organics vs conventional methods.

For example, we have a water-only soil mix that we sell for container plants. The runoff tested at over 2,000 ppms. Using synthetic chemicals, you would have killed the plants, yet the plants in this soil were happy and healthy.

3/1/2013 5:35:10 PM

Upa Creek, MO

Disclaimer: Private Luke Maggot is not me nor is associated with any of my AG growing or Smallmouth fishing tactics.

3/1/2013 5:45:55 PM

Muddy Waters

lol! Luke Thanks Tad12 It's nice to toss a subject around as we are all learning new stuff all the time.We never stop learning.Thanks for the PH info.I didnt know that.

3/1/2013 6:27:50 PM

Coventry RI USA

I mix Mykos, Azos and Trichoderma together in the soil and yes I have tested many times for Mycorrhizal colonization. I have tested cover crops, feeder roots from our pumpkin plants in late June and then again in late September. A few winters ago I grew winter rye in 2-gallon pots in my house all with separated organic and synthetic fertilizers and mycorrhizal inoculants. When told by “experts” that I should not have to add mycorrhizal inoculants to my pumpkin plants and that the roots on your lawn (colonization) and soil (infectivity potential) would have as much as the roots and soil in my garden, I tested our lawn and surrounding soil. The lawn test and surrounding soil could not come close to what they had found with our feeder roots and the surrounding garden soil. I test with 2-different labs just to make sure I believe in the results and both lab results are extremely similar.

What I have been told by people who are a lot smarter than me on this topic is that they would not store well together but in the soil there is plenty of “space” for everybody to do what they need to do.

The last quote (from the lab scientist) on my tests were “ Wow, what ever you are doing, keep doing it, I am looking at very well colonized roots!”

I guess it’s a good thing mycorhizae and trichoderma don’t read textbooks or growers would not be pushing towards 2500 pounds.

3/1/2013 6:37:44 PM

Torrance, Ca.

Thanks for that Ron!

3/1/2013 7:05:47 PM

Seattle, WA

Ron,

I'm wondering if there may already be active spores or root filaments with mycorrhizal associations already in your patch, due to the fact you apply it every year.

It would be interesting to try it in a new patch, with no pre-existing mycorrhizal associations.

I think it's important to keep an open mind, and try new things, and share experiences and information. I also think it's great that there are people doing research on these subjects, so we can separate fact from marketing and learn what variables are important, and which ones are not.

I don't know of anyone who grows that only changes one variable in their patch each year, or runs side by side tests to determine efficacy. Here's where I think university research and testing can be useful.

Thanks for sharing, I know there's still a lot to learn. Good luck with your patch this season!

3/1/2013 7:33:19 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

Well there you go Tad12... now you have a science project to try....Join a University, get some high genetic seedZ, put them in your VIRGIN patch, apply ammendZ as Master Obi-Ron-Kenobi haZ suggested.... and get two labZ to test for you. Grow a world record....TWICE.. and you'll get to sit on the heavy hitterZ panel in Orlando.....while Mickey Mouse and Goofy ask Silly questions and beg for your seedZ....You can also start testing BRIX levelZ for AG's and report on a subject untouched as of yet in Atlantic Giants Spectrum of analysis.....I'll be going there thiZ year...

Thank You Obi-Ron-Kenobi for sharing and say Hello to Lord OlderbunZ the PapsZter...

3/1/2013 8:03:43 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

PS.... ThankZ go out to Neil with RTI for his unsurmountable support of the GPC and their growerZ......

May the SporeZ be with you..... AlwayZ

3/1/2013 8:07:00 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Much appreciated input Ron.

3/1/2013 11:15:22 PM

Huntsville Texas

http://microbesbiosciences.com/agriculture/rhizogen/

3/2/2013 11:53:33 AM

Seattle, WA

Luke,

Thank you for making this personal. Never understood why people can't just have a discussion and share information and their opinion without being mocked for it. I find it disappointing...good luck in your patch, and I'll find other outlets for posting that don't seem to offend so many people on here.

Tad

3/4/2013 3:22:28 PM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Another one bites the dust?

3/4/2013 5:11:26 PM

Upa Creek, MO

Tad, not Luke. That is the Wiz.

I'm impartial on the subject.Thx

The Real Luke

3/4/2013 8:07:46 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Tad, keep on posting. The entire discussion thread is a conversation. Agree/disagree that's the point. You didn't post anything that could have offended anyone. Some subjects seem to be tabu including this one. Regardless of the overall concensus, don't let a few capital "Z"s deter you from further contributions.

3/4/2013 9:27:48 PM

Albert County, New Brunswick,CANADA

Nobody aware of pro-mix pur that came out in the fall?

http://www.promixpur.com/

3/5/2013 8:40:34 PM

Partlow,Va

I agree with Andy

3/5/2013 11:00:05 PM