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Eastern Pennsylvania

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=187325

Lets use this opportunity to get some discussion going. I have received mixed opinions from GPC reps and well known HH supporters. I am a GPC club rep so I must be very careful not to bias my opinion. This squash will not be weighed at our home weighoff so no worries there.

If this squash showed up at my weighoff I would have passed it as a green squash without question... until now. I reviewed the GPC weighoff handbook and there is extensive information on classifying squash with pics. According to those rules set forth, this looks like it would be called a pumpkin.

IMO when the rules about squash were changed a few years ago it was to protect the pumpkins from unfair classification as squash. But now it seems that the rules are hurting the squash grower.

Remember, this is intended as a friendly discussion to get the pulse of the grower community. Thanks - Jim Gerhardt

8/16/2012 1:02:06 PM

Mercersburg, PA

jim--i am no GPC rep or anything, but just checked out the weighoff handbook and it appears it would have to be judged as a pumpkin, unless the judges called the lighter coloring grey. You know there are arguments about this every year and there is no way to avoid it--has to be a rule written, but revisions should always be considered where necessary.

8/16/2012 1:55:47 PM

Wi

It's 100% green, blue, or gray. Just like the GPC rules read to qualify as a squash.

8/16/2012 2:19:14 PM

Colorado

I'd rule it a squash from the picture.As long as no pumpkin colors such as pink,orange ,yellow show up.The light background I wouldnt call a pumpkin color.I think thats the intent with the rule.

8/16/2012 2:36:07 PM

Claysburg , PA

Jimmy, if you can keep those areas grey you should be ok for a squash but all that it takes a spot of white and your a pumpkin .

I am glad I am not a judge .

8/16/2012 2:45:22 PM

St. Thomas Ontario

I wasn't going to 'weigh in' as some may write me off as bias but...in the words of my 5 yr old..."I haf too!";)

First i'd say let the sun at it. In my experiece our versions of AG pumpkins will usually develope and mature to a darker cream/orange and squash will develope and mature to a darker green/grey/blue...give it 2-3 weeks and the debate ony your particular squash will probably end there.

That said, theres no gaurentees there won't be a 'white spot' or even orange somewhere. That gaurentee would also cover every hubbard, acorn, buttercup squash you find in your local grocery store...very tough to find a 'spotless' green squash in the real world.

There does have to be a line drawn somewhere though and if it's drawn at "100% green/blue or grey"... well...there's the line.

But for consideration...maybe that judgement could be made 10 feet or so, back from the fruit, getting an overall picture. A close, hands and kneees inspection for a color blemish or spot seems a little 'nit picky' to me and not a true indication of the color of the fruit. I think most judges out there already realize and do this.

Just my thoughts and friendly opinon:)

8/16/2012 4:12:32 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

Cant make that choice with this pic....have to see in real person....I can show you two pics of the same pumpkin that are quite diff... just due to camera changes....especially from picZ taken off a cell phone.....

NO DECISION

8/16/2012 4:56:07 PM

Springfield, VT

I would hope it ruled a squash. I have a 1468 same sort of coloring issue but the "white" are are a light green. For comparison my squash http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=187076

8/16/2012 6:05:58 PM

Picton,ON ([email protected])

There is a lot of time before the weigh off so it may colour up as Joel suggests. My thoughts on it based on the pictures today, is that is with out a doubt a pumpkin.

My thoughts on adding the colour White, to the rule is that 100% white pumpkins are not squash. The rule should stand as it is.

8/16/2012 6:24:59 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Would it be ruled a pumpkin because it is not one solid colour? Do squash have to be one colour only...not mixed blue, green and grey?

White is pumpkin.

8/16/2012 6:40:56 PM

St. Thomas Ontario

I would agree with John to a certain degree but say those fruit in question (especially the latter) are squash that would be judged 'pumpkin' right now and rightfully so according the the GPC rules.

Hopefully though your weighoff isn't for a few weeks. So I would say keep your fruit exposed for several weeks on the sunny days and let the genetics tell the truth. There is a risk with exposure, but that's the chance we take:)

8/16/2012 9:03:23 PM

South East

it doesnt take a genius to see that its a squash,,lol.

8/16/2012 9:06:21 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Lol Tina and frank we are all on the same page. But we must adhere to the gpc rules and unless it greens or grays up it will be a pumpkin. And if I win 1500 dollars with it instead of the 500 squash prize? I am sure we will have to revisit this. Don't count on that lol. Once again, I am going with the gpc stance on the issue. The rules are clear and fair. It is a qualitative vs quantitative issue just like the Howard dill award and is hard to settle.

8/16/2012 11:02:35 PM

Mulino, Oregon

John, I guess that's where we differ. I would have no problem ruling that a squash. My 1486 is also very light but there is nothing 'pumpkin' about it.

8/17/2012 12:38:08 AM

Rapid City, SD

sure is ugly........lol........but i dig it

8/17/2012 1:19:46 AM

Leerdam, The Netherlands

I think, not 100% sure but.

If you give the white part a litle scratch if it is a squash it will be a green scratch and it it is a pumpkin it will be an orange scratch.

Iwan

8/17/2012 6:06:50 AM

The bottom of New Jersey

I saw the fruit in person 6 days ago and in my mind there was no question it was a squash. I guess I should bone up on the GPC rules, though different jugdes will always see things a little differently. Everyone's eyesight is a little different, and what looks white to one person could appear to be a very light shade of grey to someone else. Even on a cloudy day versus a bright sunny day the coloration could appear slightly different.

8/17/2012 7:49:47 AM

Johnston, R.I.

Jim, is it possible to get a better picture ? I am not trying to be a pain in the ass or pick anything apart, just the opinion of an old guy with bad eyes..

8/17/2012 7:54:22 AM

Rhode Island

you must always display good common sence when judging.

rules/colors/etc, can be seen in may ways. I AGREE THAT PHOTO LOOKS 100 PERCENT SQUASH.
if it looks like that at our weigh-off? thats how it would be judged.

ps-there will always be questions when a fruit is not majority percent orange or majority green.
sometimes ya just gotts call it as you see it. especially if your a judge.

i do know that there can be no orange on a green squash,yet there can be green on a orange pumpkin? hows that grab ya?

pap

8/17/2012 8:06:58 AM

Wi

I don't see white I see gray. Paper is white. That's not paper :)

There's zero hint of any orange / pink. Therefore if you bring it to Stillwater, MN it's a squash (in it's current state).

8/17/2012 8:55:17 AM

Buffalo, New York

Looks like a squash to me.....but im not familiar with them.....so what do i know.

8/17/2012 8:58:28 AM

Honesdale, Pennsylvania

Looks like a beautiful squash to me Jim.... and I know a squash when I see one :)

8/17/2012 10:16:12 AM

Billerica,Massachusetts

looks like a squash to me

8/17/2012 11:54:14 AM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Iwan, in my experience squash are just as orange/ yellow underneath as pumpkins, which is why they look so cool when carved and lit up.

Ned and others, thanks for the support! It will be up to the judges at either roba or coop to make the call.

One last thing, and don't run me out of town with flames and pitchforks... I didnt shade this fruit all season lol. So excelerating the greening process might not work as you think :)

8/17/2012 11:58:10 AM

Germany

I have posted three pics in the photogallery, as an example how a squash can colour up . Dates were 8/8/2010, 8/12/2010, 8/23/2010 and after harvest. And GPC handbook judges it as squash.

8/17/2012 12:13:54 PM

Leerdam, The Netherlands

I don't mean carving just a litle scratch with a sandpaper.
Squash will have green for sure and a squmpkin orange.

Iwan

8/17/2012 3:04:51 PM

St. Thomas Ontario

Oh the Heresy!!;)

Even 'exposed', some squash won't develope their full color potential until the growth slows and the fruit starts to mature. Color will normally progress and deepen with maturing cells, exposure just seems to speed this up a bit.

That said, some squash are green from start to finish, no waiting or maturing required. And others may never darken and you get dinged with growing a funky lookin' pumpkin:)

8/17/2012 4:11:13 PM

Bottom of ohio

if a squash has to be al green or gray, then a pumpkin should only be Orange or yellow, if no orange or white is allowed in the squash, then no green or yellow or white should be allowed in a pumpkin, do we need a third class........................

8/17/2012 6:59:45 PM

Lexington, Ky

Benny_p link to photo gallery

http://bigpumpkins.com/gallery/UserAlbum.asp

Was this squash covered?

8/18/2012 9:51:47 AM

Germany

That Squash was covered with a light white bed-sheet, no tarp over it. keeper on the main had an early BES, this one was an open pollinated on a sidevine, pollination about 7/16/2010. Stemsplit into cavity end of August, harvested with 589lbs.

8/18/2012 12:09:20 PM

El Paso TX.

To me it would seem to be a squash -- but in the eyes of the GPC it is most likely currently a pumpkin -- to explain you need to look at the reason for the GPC rules -- IMO the rule was implemented because tin the past the pumpkins always outweighed the squash and thus attempts were made to cross the 2 in order to get the weights of crosses to be more in line with the pumpkins while being judged as a squash -- thus the GPC introduced the 100% color rule in order to keep the squash category -- If they allowed crosses to be judged as either then you'd have more growers entering their pumpkins as squash in order to get a higher placing with the same weight. So in judging the judges need to err on the side of DQing a fruit from judging as a squash if there is any doubt. (if the rule was reversed and the pumpkin rules had a 100% orange rule and any crosses were determined to be squash then they should err on the side of dqing a fruit as a pumpkin and judge it as a squash)

That said since the rules were enacted to preserve the squash category IMO if there is any doubt it should be ruled a Pumpkin anytime there is a doubt as this follows the initial intent of the rule as I understand it.

8/18/2012 12:45:47 PM

Lexington, Ky

G hasn't said a word....must be a pumpkin...LOL!

8/18/2012 2:18:52 PM

Indiana

If the GPC does not fix this color issue quick, its going to mess up the gene pool for color prediction.

The fruit in question obviously has the recessive green gene, the intensity is lacking, thus the what we call "white".

I'd be in favor of a 1 person wrecking crew making all questionable squash rulings worldwide before I would accept the current rule as acceptable.

Just wait until you all grow the next great seed and it produces a squash for you because of a parent or grandparent labeled a pumpkin when in fact it was genetically what we all call a squash.

The funny thing is that I have never seen leadership reach out to people that have some knowledge to solve this problem.

The spirit of the squash is to have fruit with the recessive green gene be ruled squash. I dont understand why this is so hard.

8/19/2012 11:10:41 PM