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Deer Park, WI

What you are about to read is a touchy subject. At the same time, there are many who believe this is a necessary subject to address. I ask you to read the text below with an open mind. Then read it again. And before you type in a response, I ask you to do so with clarity and your emotions set aside. This is a critical matter with significant implications for the clubs to which you belong and the leaders who spend countless hours volunteering their time to preserve & enrich club vitality.

I look forward to healthy, non-confrontational debate on this matter and, most of all, the willingness to acknowledge the degree to which clubs & organizations depend on system whereby seed-related revenues are returned back into our beloved hobby.

11/5/2011 5:06:35 PM

Deer Park, WI

An Open Letter to All Growers:

It has been discussed amongst the leaders of multiple regional weigh-off sites that the value of giant pumpkin seeds has been decreasing, specifically the auction seed pricing.

There is a general consensus that we, the growers, need to come forth with general principles for how our seeds are marketed. We the leaders of clubs and weigh-off sites prefer to collaborate with the G.P.C. Directors and Ken D. of BigPumpkins.com to propose guidelines as to how this should be done. We await their input on this matter.

We are concerned that as time ticks on, our club revenues will dwindle if nothing is done.

To understand the importance of this matter we must first look back at our history. Giant pumpkin growing is a hobby that is definitely on the upswing. We all would surely agree, but why is that?

The fact of the matter is it’s all about excitement. The larger the pumpkins get, the more attention the hobby receives. The more attention the hobby receives, the more new growers we enlist, but let’s look deeper.

If it were not for the dramatic increases in weight would there be this response? Doubtful. Pumpkin weight only increases with knowledge, how to do, what to do, and when to do it is key when growing giant pumpkins. It is the clubs and organizations that provide the platform for this magic to happen. It happens at seminars, field days, tours, or it could be as simple as two growers chatting about cultural practices on the phone or BigPumpkins.com; clubs facilitate this process. Again, I think we all would agree that education of our growers is monumental; it is the key to our success.

The clubs also organize and/or provide a venue for the weigh-offs to occur and on top of that, even award cash prizes. Many of the weigh-offs pay handsome first prizes and many places deep. What a wonderful thing the growers and organizational volunteers have created. How does this happen? As with any organizati

11/5/2011 5:09:46 PM

Deer Park, WI

Yes clubs can get sponsors, but any organizer will tell you it is not easy and many times these relationships are not long term. So how else do you fund these happenings?

We as growers and clubs have but one currency, and that is seeds. Seed auctions, raffles, and sales are the lifeblood of our organizations. For many clubs, all of the money generated through these efforts goes right back to the promotion of the hobby and benefit of the growers.

As seed values increase, there have been many fundraising activities that benefit causes other than giant pumpkin growing organizations. They see this as a great way to raise funds. As more of these types of sales and auctions occur, the market becomes saturated and seed values decrease. There is also the concern of private “for-profit” businesses dealing in seed sales. This also contributes to loss of revenue for the organizations that do the most to promote our hobby.

Giant pumpkin organizations are currently struggling to find dollars to operate on.

To be clear we believe that charities deserve support and we should—with dollars from our pockets not seed dollars from our clubs—support these causes. We encourage charitable entities to make direct monetary requests for grower contributions.

In conclusion, this document proposes that growers unite together and openly embrace: “I, as a grower, support fundraising activities that directly benefit giant pumpkin clubs/organizations who’s mission it is to further the hobby of growing giant pumpkins.”

11/5/2011 5:10:19 PM

Deer Park, WI

We ask you to voluntarily show your support for preserving club vitality by adding your name to this list.

Tim Parks, OVGPG Director, H.O.F. Member, 8 years as GPC Steering Committee Member (retired)
Joe Ailts, Co-Founder, President SCGA
Gary J Grande, President & CEO Rocky Mountain Giant Vegetable Growers
Russ Landry, GVGO Co-Founder, GPC Vice President (retired), IGVGC Director (retired)
George Janowiak, IGPGA President
Alan Gibson, OVGPG Director, H.O.F Member
Chris Stevens, Vice President SCGA
Quinn Werner, OVGPG Board Member, 2008 Grower of the Year
Lorelee Zywiec, SCGA
Todd Norholm, SCGA
Glenn Orr, OVGPG
Bryan Mailey, GVGO
Tony Vanderpool, Coordinator SOGPG
Andy Hamilton, Co-Founder AVGVG, Secretary (retired), seed coordinator and primary fund raiser
David Garrell, President CTGS&PGA

11/5/2011 5:10:46 PM

[email protected]

Joze and all undersigned:
As I read your statement and have read it many times, I on one hand agree with you that clubs need to fund themselves to support their growers, weighoffs etc, to help further the future of our great sport.
BUT: and this is the tug of war I'm personally dealing with.
I have, since the days of it's inception, supported "PAP" and his Orange Angel foundation. because I truely believe in my heart, what he is doing is more bennificial than any first place ribbon ever will.
We as the fortunate are helping support the unfortunate.
And by reading your Open letter, I feel you are telling me not to support what I feel dear to.
The bottom line for me is, although I support non club benificial seed sales, it does not take away my level of support for clubs.
In light of all this, I would love to see a committee of club members formed to allow a small percentage of NON club benifical fundraisers be allowed ie: The Orange Angel Foundation to maintain it's place in the Pumpkin community, or a Memorial auction to benifit a family in need that has lost a loved one.
Eddy

11/5/2011 6:29:58 PM

Annapolis Valley Nova Scotia

Ohh man this will open a can of worms. I will not sign up to anything that excludes freedom of choice. I understand where all this is coming from, but do not understand the need to exclude all those that benefit from fund raising.

11/5/2011 7:00:57 PM

Deer Park, WI

Before the message of this letter is taken further out of context, I'd like to make an important point: The fundraising code of ethics does not intend to impose upon anyone's freedom of choice. By signing on, one is not bound to any sort of rule or law. We do not presume to force anyone's decision one way or another.

11/5/2011 7:18:16 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

As a club officer, I signed on to the open letter. I am faced each year with the task of obtaining seed donations from growers, getting auction dates, putting the auctions together, and conducting the auctions....all for the purpose of raising funds for our club weighoff and the costs which go along with maintaining a club. Many clubs will go under if something is not done soon and, to me, this seems to be a viable beginning.

Last year's auction season was pitiful relevant to raising adequate funds to support the clubs.

Big-time growers have always been very generous with their seeds, but I see a trend toward giving seeds only to clubs or close associates who promise to grow the seeds. ALL growers want to see their seeds GROWN, not COLLECTED.

The AG seed "market" is going to tighten one way or another and the GPC is definitely going to have to be involved in order to help preserve the expansion of the hobby of growing AG's. This is just one of many growing pains.

11/5/2011 7:18:50 PM

Colorado

I'm all for the clubs getting the lions share of the seed sale revenues.I agree fully with eddy on the OAF. I'm very opposed to personal gain seed selling-goes against the spirit of the hobby. joe scherber colorado

11/5/2011 7:22:29 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

IceMan.....YES I can understand that...and would support that as an exception, and will always support the OAF.....An auction supporting Tremor (May he rest in peace), who helped anyone and everyone on this site would be an exception in my mind as well... For certain causes...and very few of them.....I say we need to make an exception.... But for little Bobbys Liver transplant....I would think their could be a different way to show our support and we could give them money from our pocket instead.
I know this is a touchy subject but I respect the clubs, that support the growers.....and our seed auctions are our life lines.

It has always been frowned upon for individual growers or corporations to gobble up the seeds and sell them, I am not referencing about Howard Dill, who so graciously let his patent expire so we could grow them BIGGER.....that is so completely different.

We are not talking about the GVGO, or Port Elgin and Sally with her seed sales....or other clubs selling seeds at their weigh offs or at club functions to help their club grow. There has to be a few legitamate exceptions....

But we ARE talking about seed relays, and individuals trying to make major bucks taking away a means that our local clubs depend upon for survival.

11/5/2011 7:46:00 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

What I loved so dearly about this hobby was the open sharing of information, growing techniques a commardarie so unique and special....that grew this hobby to what it is today, and set us apart from corporate America. So many of us learned and now teach those fundamentals to the new grower passing it down the line. That young grower that will some day pop a 1 ton pumpkin or mre..... I would just hate to see that all vaporiZe..... into the Pay as your Grow Phenomena... Every grower for them selves....

Yes I know, Free Enterprise... but then again....What IZ more important....and why do we do this...?> PerhapZ we should reflect upon that as well... and do what is ethical for the good of the many, not the profit of the few...

This does not reflect my opinion as a GPC Committe Member, for WiZ wearZ many hats.... but does reflect my support for the clubs and the growers with in it, and the friendships made,,, that are second to none.
Thank You.....and GrowZem BIG

11/5/2011 7:46:07 PM

Annapolis Valley Nova Scotia

Quote "It has been discussed amongst the leaders of multiple regional weigh-off sites that the value of giant pumpkin seeds has been decreasing, specifically the auction seed pricing."

Quote " As seed values increase, there have been many fundraising activities that benefit causes other than giant pumpkin growing organizations."

Which is it? a decrese in seed values or an increase in seed values that worries you?

11/5/2011 7:48:04 PM

Ontario

I am with Eddy on Pap's fundraiser as well, I have supported this cause and will continue to....even though I have openly signed this code of ethics. I explained this to Joe when he sent the letter this weekend. Most importantly and foremost, I am against personal gain off seed sales. As I re-read this letter over and over...I concentrated on the final statement, in being a grower who supports club efforts to raise funds from seed sales to support this great hobby.

11/5/2011 7:54:37 PM

new middletown ohio

add my name to the list
steve razo OVGPG director

11/5/2011 8:37:11 PM

South East

Joze,

Im no club leader, just a member but, what you write here concerns me:

There is a general consensus that we, the growers, need to come forth with general principles for how our seeds are marketed. We the leaders of clubs and weigh-off sites prefer to collaborate with the G.P.C. Directors and Ken D. of BigPumpkins.com to propose guidelines as to how this should be done. We await their input on this matter.

First off: We think people should be able to support who they want to.

Second: I am not aware of a general consensus regarding the marketing of seeds. And who's seeds? Top seeds? or the small time average growers seeds to? And marketed? How does marketing fit in a non profit structure like a club.

Are not the club members responsible for their club? Do I really have to pay hundreds of dollars to keep your club running when I am not a member and i happen to want to grow that WI seed? If seed value is down and the market is saturated then maybe its time to think smaller..

Pay your first place winner only 1000 instead of 5000 and use the 4000 you save to run your club. (spend it on education and research, thats more valuable then weigh off pay outs and actually really furthers the hobby)
IF your members dont try as hard, or drop, then they are growing pumpkins for the wrong reason: MONEY.

This hobby's growth and potential are limited, to think everyone is going to grow ag is foolish, nor will it ever be olympic, lol. The seed marked it saturated, and will only get more saturated. Why pay a club $ 300 for a "top" seed when i can get one for free somewhere else? Instead of trying to regulate seed sales and milk it, start looking for alternitives. Seeds should be for free. Instead of looking for bigger and more every year, stay constistent. That way theres plenty for every one.

11/5/2011 9:37:25 PM

South East

Maybe its not the dropping seed revenue, but club priorities that are the problem. What does your club spend most on and why? (in general) Could it be done diffrent?

And last but not least: club vitality, should have nothing to do with the fundraising. Club vitality should be connected with the enthousiasm of the clubs leadership and its members. Just like above, if less money means less fun, then your growing for the wrong reasons. After all we are amateurs,,we grow for FUN!!!

We have supported many clubs, many charities as im sure others did to. I see no need for change in the community. Not to sure about the clubs though...

Frank & Tina Finders

11/5/2011 9:37:36 PM

virginia

Very well said Tina.

11/5/2011 9:50:42 PM

True that Girlfriend! Well Said!

11/5/2011 9:59:23 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

I love Tina and Frank

11/5/2011 10:00:50 PM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

We've tried to do different things... with seed begging and auctions... our club was the first one to go out of the way to have a non-pumpkin seed lots night... and tried to add fundraiser lots for things that needed supporting.

What doesn't feel good, is having a good seed and watching it go for say, $100.00 (gotten from the grower) and an auction the next night having same seed and watching it go for $300.00 ... and so on. Feels like your club let the grower down...for one.

Plus the pressure on growers to be generous and donate (and many do, bless'm) to various club auctions.

And the nights and needs have been multiplying !!!

This year we're going it alone. As in no seed auction night. Some seeds posted to a message board as soon as we get that going on our website. (Thank you to those that have sent us auction seeds, that is where they will go) And seeing what we can do from there to raise the fundage to pay the prizes to get people to participate. Being way out here we need to run that line too. And we need to stay at it just *because* we're way out here.

“I, as a grower, support fundraising activities that directly benefit giant pumpkin clubs/organizations who’s mission it is to further the hobby of growing giant pumpkins.”

I do do this. I would also add. "And support the spirit of growing for greatness." The 45# grown by an 8 year old is just as important as the 1900# grown by a world class grower...

Here, the grower is the reason for the club.

Deb Rebel

11/5/2011 10:11:22 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Tina & Frank, You hit the nail on the head, very well said.

11/5/2011 10:21:26 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

I love Tina and i love Frank too!!

11/5/2011 10:24:02 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

I love your enthusiasm Tina and Frank and couldn't agree more. I love to grow for the simple pleasure of growing and hope to remain competitive as the years go forward.

But I am also a club officer with one goal in mind: growing our club. It is an unfortunate consequence that money should be involved in such a poular pursuit, but it is what it is. AGAIN, growing pains suck.

11/5/2011 10:42:27 PM

Cheshire,Ma

Great post Tina and Frank

11/5/2011 10:53:42 PM

Massachusetts

entry fee at wiegh-off......if needed......

11/6/2011 6:01:53 AM

Johnston, R.I.

Well said Frank and Tina

11/6/2011 6:50:03 AM

Rhode Island

eddy z
thank your for your supportive remarks concerning seed donations for causes other than those that benefit ONLY pumpkin clubs.
those generous growers who donate top seed stocks willingly each year, coupled with good friends such as yourself who support with there package purchases yearly, are the only reason we are able to continue this worth while cause each winter.thank you to all of you.

what have we become ? are we so scared of organizations such as "THE OAF - COATS FOR KIDS YEARLY FUNDRAISER" ,one that directly benefits needy children, that we would advocate shutting off the donations of seeds that make this fundraiser possible? or, is there a different hidden agenda at the heart of this subject? i think the latter.nuff said.

when we as a giant pumpkin hobby growing community dictate what a grower should or should not do with their seeds? its stepping over the line. way over.

club seed auctions, benefit seed auctions, charity donations of seeds, all have a place in our hobby.unfortunately seed suctions are in such high demand now that every club wants to have one to raise funds.
there is only so many dollars from our community to go around. i understand this.
as more clubs are formed more will want to get valuable seeds for auction or club membership promotions,etc. yes everyone wants a piece of the same dollar.

perhaps its time to get creative and find additional ways for sites and clubs to raise funds? but not do so at the expense of cutting out beneficial programs such as the oeange angels foundation
as for the OAF? it will always happen each and every winter until such time as i no longer can do it.to many children in need depend on that winter coat.
i just wish some of you that advocate not supporting these type fundraisers could be present to see in person how happy these children are.

thank you
pap wallace

11/6/2011 7:16:29 AM

Ma.

Personal opinion,Bobby gets a liver,kids get their coats ,whats left can go to the club.

11/6/2011 7:16:37 AM

Georgetown, Ontario

The issue here is the declining price of the seeds and I don't think any sort of controlled marketing or manipulation is going to change that. The success of all the growers involved in this hobby has created such a good genetic base that more and more people are realizing that you don't need a $500 seed to grow a monster pumpkin. More and more people are growing their own seeds or using lesser known seeds that all have the potential to grow the next world record. There will always be the people willing to pay any amount to grow the next "must have" seed but as for the rest of us we have come to realize that you don't need to spend huge amounts of money on a seed. If you have $500 to spend you are much better to spend it on ammendments and other products rather than a seed. Maybe clubs need to look into other options rather than telling a grower what to do with his seeds. The clubs that I belong to provide so much information and benefit to me that I would be willing to pay 4x more for my membership. Lets face it, a $25 membership for 4 newsletters mailed out, patch tours, seed promo pack, and awards is a rediculously low amount to pay. Those fees were maybe fine when the clubs could raise a lot of money from auctions but if that is not the case anymore, that might be something to look at. I can see this going from a request to only donate seeds to club auctions to eventually recommending growers to not give out any seeds for free. Just my opinion, but I think the intention is good here, but I see it going down the wrong path and going against the spirit and generosity of this hobby that got me into it in the first place.

11/6/2011 8:03:21 AM

Topsfield,ma.

Tina and Frank got it right our hobby did not grow because of the prize money.It grew out of the pride a grower has in what he can produce out of one seed. Then it grew into regional pride. Then at some point clubs began to feel that in order to attract and keep the best growers they had to have the best prize structure,the best news letter,patch tour etc.etc. Not true, as we have witnessed in the past years growers support their local clubs and weigh offs. Don't let greed ruin our hobby. We don't need more regulations. Relax and enjoy what you have. I am a proud grower and am proud of all the people I know that do it for the love of the sport not the money. Woody Lancaster

11/6/2011 8:38:15 AM

Wi

Folks. Again. The greatest concern is not the here and now. The concern is the future if these non-pumpkin related entities are allowed to continue to grow unchecked.

Pap it's a bit unsetting to see your "hidden agenda" comment. Especially with my support over the past of the OAF (and continued support). I think we've all witnessed needy children, dying cancer patients, special olympics, churches..etc etc. Nobody is arguing these are fantastic causes for fundraising. My family writes checks to these organizations each season. In fact we wrote considerable checks to these organizations last year due to our good fortune with pumpkins!

I just can't imagine another way for a pumpkin club to raise $5000 in the span of 2 hours. Ideas are certainly welcome.

11/6/2011 8:56:32 AM

Pinetops,n.c.

have the powers that be considered our current economic situation, certainly lots of people have to spend money on things more important than seeds. while i know that lots of growers are not hurting financially, there are a lot that are.
also, if i can spend a few dollars or donate a few seeds to an auction that helps a needy child/person versus giving it to a club to buy trophies or jackets, or pay weigh off prizes, i will always try and help those in need, not those that are looking to reap rewards for a mere hobby. i'm sorry if this offends anyone, but being the father of a needy child, i see that side of it differently , after all ther are just SEEDS.
i agree with pap, maybe instead of seeing how much money we can get for a certain seed, lets get creative and find other ways to raise money.

11/6/2011 9:04:37 AM

Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

The whole point everyone is trying to make is why do you need $5,000 for a weighoff prize structure? With all seriousness, if someone needed $5,000 for a child's illness, unfortunate circumstance, etc, etc. I am not writing a check for the next hot seed...I can guarantee you that.

You will also get comments from growers that their prize winnings goes towards their soil amendments, etc...... thats great and I do that if I win something....but money is not why I grow. If the money someone wins doesnt cover their expenses and they need it to maybe they need to reconsider growing 10 plants down from 20.

Ray

11/6/2011 9:05:57 AM

Linden, Mi.,

The Cooks, I could not have said it better

THANKS !!!!

11/6/2011 9:07:53 AM

Jericho Vermont

Clubs can not and should not try to mandate where someone should or should not spend their monies. We should ask, beg and hope for the support but not attempt to control. Is it really realistic in life to legally raise $5000 in 2 hours? I agree that all of our clubs need to find money to survive, but attempting to "mandate" is not a strategy for the future. World governments have seen this tactic backfire. We need to band together to search for realistic solutions to fund all of our clubs, rather than suggest to free market consumers where their support should be.
John Young
President
Vermont Giant Pumpkin Growers

11/6/2011 9:08:53 AM

Upa Creek, MO

Well put Gary and Ray. I have only been growing 2 years, but monetary payoff is and never would be a reason for me to grow. One option is to limit prize structures.

11/6/2011 9:40:54 AM

Erin,Ontario.

I have been a proud member of our club (GVGO)since 2005 and have tried to support it with individual donations and participation in seed auction fundraisers.As our hobby grows and changes we need to grow and change with it or get left behind and start grasping at "solutions" such as the one described in Joze's post.Our club fees are ridiculously low and I have,for a couple of years now,felt that they could at least be doubled with minimal loss of membership.Start there.We should be giving as many of our seeds away to people that want to put them in the dirt,that is the single most beneficial way of promoting this hobby.Joze,with respect,I would never,ever sign such a letter,it reeks of protectionism.As a quick aside,we organized our first weigh-off in our little town this year,had over $5000 in prize money and 23 pumpkins,over half of which were first time growers using DONATED seeds.

11/6/2011 10:07:58 AM

Joliet, IL

There are great points on all sides here. This in an open forum that is provoking thought as this hobby has grown from a handful of weigh offs to 92 in a very short time period. As the absurdity of the weights have risen rapidly, so has the national and world exposure to the thing we all love to do most ...grow big pumpkins. The hobby has evolved into what it is today and will continue to change and evolve. This is ininevitable. With honest open discussion and debate with many voices both spoken and heard, then I believe it will evolve for the better. Let's always remember we are a community. With good debate can come strong emotions. Especially from people who are as pationate about things as us giant pumpkin growers can be. Lol. With that in mind, I hope to see more points of view discussed civily in this thread and many more all winter long. Nothing wrong with opening up a can of worms once in a while to let them breath a bit.

11/6/2011 10:08:04 AM

canal winchester ohio

Ok, folks are worried about the non-pumpkin related sales going unchecked. But aren't the pumpkin related sales going unchecked as well? There are a LOT of clubs now with hundreds or thousands of seeds being auctioned or sold. Does a governing body make sure all the monies being brought in goes directly to running a weighoff or payouts? If not this venture is kind of hypocritical, stop the non pumpkin but not keep track of the tens of thousands of dollars being raised for pumpkin relaated.
I don't have a dog in either fight, I've never raised money for non pumpkin & I don't raise money for pumpkin related & that's why I can look at this evenly.
Goes back to the old joke about athletes saying it's not about the money. When you say it's not about the money then it IS about the money. As the payoff structures raise so does the cut throat nature of this hobby. This whole problem of lower seed prizes is not & I repeat NOT a problem of the few who raise money for non pumpkin.
Let's use last night as a example, how many clubs vied for a spot on Ken's auction bidding. Compare that to 6 years ago.
Let's look at how many clubs sell their seeds thru promo pacs thru their club websites. Compare that to 6 years ago.
Let's look back at last Nov.-March when clubs didn't get the date for a auction they wanted & do silent auctions to beat other clubs to the punch for the best prices ( cut throat). Again, look back at 6 years ago. I can't say for sure because you can't really do the math but if you take club auctions, club seed sales, club silent auctions & compare that with non-pumpkin it may be 80-20 or 75-25 in favor of pumpkin related events . So with that in mind wouldn't it make more sense to control the bigger of the beast to get your desired results.
Just my 2 cents.
Paul

11/6/2011 10:20:05 AM

Western PA

I think the manipulation of seed prices is wrong!

I read on a board post that the seed counts of the two 1800 lbers this year was not going to be disclosed for the time being. if this was the growers choice then they are entitled to it,I Don't know who's choice it was.

One would have to assume that the choice was made to artificially increase the value of those seeds at auctions, by limiting the supply you are increasing the value of a product which is right in line with how this thread was started. My view and I am sure the view of many others this is wrong and should NOT be done.

I agree with a lot of the posts here and I think Frank & Tina was one of the best ones I have read!! They have very similar view points as me when it comes to the this subject!

Plane and simple, It should not be about raising as much money as you can, what ever the clubs raises adjust your payout structure to that value, DO NOT ARTIFICIALLY INFLATE THE PRICE OF SEEDS!

After all there are so many great seeds out there one would not even need a big name high dollar seed to do good, just get a free one with great genetics.

11/6/2011 11:05:21 AM

Rapid City, SD

keep it simple..........keep it fun

11/6/2011 11:37:21 AM

Glosta

I'm a little confused as to who initiated this. Is this the GPC's view? Does BP.com support it? And what clubs support it?

11/6/2011 12:00:20 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

The RMGVG has never had funds enough to even think off being able to add funds for fruit placements. In addition if we did it would go out evenly to every WO site we have here in CO and other states now too as we grow.

11/6/2011 12:21:34 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

It has always been my vision to use every penny to go into growing it bigger, reach out to more, and pay it back to those who help out, by the ink, the paper, the decals, the teeZ and mugZ and postage to spread the grow.
Last year we sent club teeZ and mugZ to those who have helped us grow up...and I still need to send more, and hope to continue it this year again, if I get the funds to allow it to continue.
I insisted that the sites themselves go out and get sponsorships and fund the weigh offs placings.... and now we have sites themselves competing for being the best site and getting the biggest pumpkin. One site now paid out nice sums this year and got that biggest pumpkin even paying down to 10th place. Only my encouragement and others BIG PUMPKINS made that happen. My clubs focus was purchasing extra ribbons for a veggie contest so everyone who entered a fruit/veggie got to take home a ribbon to hang on their wall. Many of them, just kids who had great big smiles on their faces along with their parents, and their desire to grow bigger and different for next year..... Not that I don’t admire those sites that can reward the placing’s....perhaps someday I’ll have that cash but I don’t think so, and to me…could get to be a conflict of interest…but other clubs know their own contraints and options so I cant tell them what to do or how…...... and every RMGVG penny goes back to the grower in support of our mission and putting it out there. I just can’t fund it out of my own home budget any longer, its grown way too big, and the more options we get as the RMGVG, the more that gets out to spread the word of the GrowZ’em BIG . RMGVG and clubs will great creative and add to it as we see growers with their ideas and energies.....share it.
But until one tries to make it happen and orchestrate all the instruments, it’s lot easier just to play the horn.

11/6/2011 12:21:54 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

So I would ask as a club president ... get out there... volunteer to help your club and clubs make it better, with an idea, a helping hand, a great newsletter article, a seed and you’re SUPPORT and TIME . Even just a THANK YOU!... we appreciate what you do with your free time...Means so much, I know it does for me...... We are stronger as a team, than just a group of individuals....and ideas are price less.. I know I value yourZ as otherZ do too....within theZe threadZ of gold.

I don’t alwayZ do it right....But I do learn from my missteaks...... ...keep it coming....NICE THREAD>
Hope to see you all…..OUT THERE~!

11/6/2011 12:22:04 PM

El Paso TX.

Having only been a grower for a couple years now and living in an area where getting anything to survive is an accomplishment. Not sure whether I should chime in here or not since I'll never be competitive and also will never be one to spend several hundred dollars on a single seed. I really think that Tina and Frank's post got it right. If the prize money is what it is all about then maybe this isn't the hobby I thought it was.

The way I see it the clubs need to do the same as most Americans in these times of difficulty and go back and reexamine their needs and motivations, adjust as needed and stop relying on the Credit cards (Seeds in this case). If that means reducing prize payouts or raising Membership dues or finding new methods of raising the funds then perhaps that is for the best.
( Continued in next post )

11/6/2011 3:07:42 PM

El Paso TX.

Perhaps it's time to stop the auctions all together and find a new way of raising funds (From what I've seen of the auctions they seem to artificially inflate the pricing anyways, with a few people always bidding up the price to a level they feel is fair or buying the seed themselves since they have the spare cash only to redistribute them to others or re-donate them to another club - sure they have good intentions in doing so but in the long run are making the average person just stop trying to participate in the auctions ) - perhaps instead put all of those donated seeds into a lottery - give members a ticket(s) for the membership fee and sell extra tickets for a certain level of donation to the club and then hold a lottery to chose the winners of the seeds or the order in which a choice for a seed occurs letting the first ticket pulled select the seed they want and then continuing from there. Or simply blindly place all the seeds into packages and send each member\donator a package as a thank you for the donation. Figure that way the seeds are distributed without regards to a $ value for the seed and all members get a chance to participate without having to spend thousands of $'s.

Just my 2 cents

11/6/2011 3:07:51 PM

Alaska

This seems silly to me. With so many folks growing giant pumpkins theses days and there are allot of 1000+ pounders being grown. It's only stands to reason there's lots of great seeds to go around. It's simple supply and demand. Plus many of those seeds are traded or just given away. People give what they can at the auctions and that's that. So before we start judging people that sell seeds for profit. Remember we are a free market society. In my opinion the clubs need to get smarter at what they do in order to compete and survive. Seedless Atlantic Giant Pumpkins might be the answerer, lol. IMHO.

11/6/2011 4:23:58 PM

Long Island,New York

I think they have those in Wisconsin already Scott !!!

11/6/2011 4:46:29 PM

Colorado

thanks for all you do Wiz!! Sounds like I joined a great club. Looking forward to working with you, and thanks to everyone else who has shared so willingly with me so far, look forward to paying it back!

11/6/2011 5:16:00 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

Email me Jack, and you are so kind!
[email protected]

11/6/2011 6:01:11 PM

Muddy Waters

Pap Is right,we need to start thinking outside of the box.There are lots of ways to raise funds,with this hobby growing so fast,Solicit bigger sponsors,with bigger promos!There are thousands of growers,put your best marketing people to work on Bigger sponsors.I dont plan on stopping in till the GWG logo is on a NASCAR!lol Dream it,Live it,It will all come together.

11/6/2011 6:56:48 PM

Bethlehem CT

Not many years ago there would be just a handful of seed's that everyone wanted, now there are dozens and dozens that are proven to grow pumpkins over 1500 pounds. ( look at the variety of different mothers on the gpc list for heaviest pumpkins.) It will be hard to get as much money for seeds when there are so many good ones available. There are also many more clubs and many more growers. This helps to saturate the market further. I don't think preventing charities from selling seeds will help. The giant pumpkin community has always had a spirit of sharing and generosity. This would be a step off that path. There has got to be a better way, whether it be lower pay outs or find a different way to generate revenue.

11/6/2011 7:26:38 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

PerhapZ...

In the wordZ of the late great Andy Rooney....

"No thought has much meaning, until written or spoken."

Or in our day an age....posted....

11/6/2011 9:38:48 PM

Knopp, Germany

So, for those of us that are not going to try and interpret all that has been written, 2 questions, please answer in 1-2 sentences, anything over 2 syllables won't be read :)

1- What exactly is the new sin in our family oriented sport?

2- Is it ok to eagerly await the auctions, support the OAF and not mind buying a seed if the profits go towards solving cancer?

11/7/2011 2:40:01 AM

Littleton, Colorado

The first year I ever grew any giants was 1968. There were no clubs. There was no GPC. There was no BP. There were no Iphones, Ipads, cellulars, or internet. But for a 13 year old kid, it was just a blast to grow something so mindblowingly unusual. It made me smile. It still does! My primary motivation is still the same as it was 43 years ago----to make people smile! I sure haven't hauled pumpkins from Colorado to North Carolina, Canada, and many times to California----just for money. I've spent way more on gasoline than I'll ever make from winnings. As long as I can smile about it, I'll be motivated to grow big pumpkins! I have to say that Frank and Tina hit pretty close to the mark!

11/7/2011 2:58:36 AM

Ct

I do not understand the Clubs point of view as I do not know how much money a club needs to exist and operate.

So that I may see the clubs point of view from the money side of it is there a club willing to post its budget and operating ledgers for 2010,2011 and the projected budget for 2012.

PG

11/7/2011 6:15:18 AM

Wi

Owen:

1. There is no new sin period.

2. You are certainly more than free to support whoever you wish. We only ask you consider supporting the clubs that create the pumpkin related events.

PG I'm glad you are looking at this with an open mind. There are many that have posted here that also do not understand what it takes to run a club. In all honesty I don't blame them at all for disagreeing with "the code" without the knowledge of what's required to run a club or the event in which they attend. In order to satisfy all parties this may have to be a topic discussed in person. I understand and certainly respect the opinion of others and hope they can do the same in return.

11/7/2011 8:27:08 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

TheZe are amaZing fruits indeed. And SmileZ a mile wide. Look at all thoZe we had a our 4 weigh offZ this year in Colorado alone much less thoZe in Wisconsin, California, Rhode Island...0ver 90 across the globe. Much different now than 43 years ago...when one had to drive thousands of mileZ to officially weigh a fruit and see a few smileZ..... few optionZ to spread the word and share our energies then…
What once weighed 400 poundZ now topZ over 1800…..who did that? How did that happen?
How few they were then.... But look at now, the invention of the internet, the IPhone, digital photography….and all thoZe clubZ who now help create MORE SMILEZ across the MileZ.
We must embrace the new age world with new age thinking… not bashing thoZe who are brave enough to ask a question, or post a desire….too eaZy now to bash and smash the enter key….and hurt.
Our clubZ depend on theZe seed auction to help create some of thoZe smileZ.... Postage, tee shirtZ $17 each, even a plastic bub cost a $1 before postage....using PayPal as a conveince which we are not allowed to charge more for...buck$ lost.

If you don’t know why the clubs need fundZ, then sit down and get involved with a club, it will become so very obvious. Web site feeZ, hatZ, shirtZ, more ribbonZ………food to feed those who show up giving away their time……to help.
A new shirt to replace that old faded one, worn every day out in the patch!

11/7/2011 10:07:47 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

Two answers Owen??. Sorry not that simple, wish it waZ...
Oh to sit back and just grow a pumpkin….how easy and tempting that iZ>…
Seed auctions to solve CANCER???,....Please, believe me; I am VERY motivated by that solution....INDEED. Eating pumpkin seedZ is supposed to be good for cancer...But to think CANCER will be solved by a seed auction…..? There are much better ways to support that type of desire, not a pumpkin seed sale! Could that not be conceived as taking advantage of a good thing, Robbing Peter to pay Paul? Please don’t twist it that direction. Support that in other ways that do not dilute our clubs means. Ways and time better spent. A few good oneZ yes….everyone to pay their billZ….HOW?
We are just searching for answers...to help us with the next grow, that youngster in the crowd…that will be the next world record holder or creator of the next technique they tried out of the motivation they got from attending a club event....it will come from energy, and great support of our clubs. The TV coverage, the showZ that support our growers and their new ideas and techniques…and the fun we have….sharing. Hell we are helping Grow MORE food, in LESS space… Think of that one…. Our growing techniques are thinking out of the box. Not going back to a time….when the greatest idea was a tube TV and 3 channels in black and white. Why put down those who are not afraid to Ask the hard question and take the risk? Donate and give their time away for FREE?? Is that not worth something as well?

Enough from me how.... I have a FREE newsletter to put out....and there iZ only so much time in the day....

11/7/2011 10:08:50 AM

[email protected]

I'd like to ask the clubs a question!!!!

What and how dou you plan to deal with private seed sales like this?
http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=8a4md6cab&v=0016rCg-GFQumgz0MTClL-wqOd6NePDgBylIBwoOm-mZGNHfvR91Lp8G6mXiEAf3C_gPgr2k6wRbbBOIX4Vxbr3aBuZ-AdRxk1SOzpITbdgpujIRgnNxUQtTvGGJ-tueTOurFwAjGpw0N0%3D

11/7/2011 10:22:20 AM

Florida

A lot of folks don't know what it takes to run a club & weighoff & I think that was his question. What does it take to run the clubs and weighoffs. Not payouts just the actual operating costs. If people are truly concerned about payouts at all the weighoffs do like the NFL and have revenue sharing. Then all clubs can help advance the hobby which is what I'm taking is the goal of this action ..correct

11/7/2011 10:25:25 AM

canal winchester ohio

Wiz, is every weighoff like yours & give away free t-shirts & hats. Or do they sell them. Here's my point, I agree clubs need money to put out newsletters ( do all clubs do this) to help pass info & help to other growers. I agree clubs need money to hold the weighoffs & pass out ribbons or trophies. But are the huge monitary payouts needed to grow our hobby. If not why do it & if the answer is yes then will someone just admit it is about the money.

11/7/2011 10:50:48 AM

Knopp, Germany

okay, so we won't solve cancer with seed sales, and those that freely chose to support a club in a way that requires time and effort also seem to have a uphill battle.

Listen, i do spend time, effort and money supporting weighoffs and clubs. when i feel it is not worth my time effort and money i don't support them. And for those that know just how much i spend in money at the auctions, you lost one of your biggest supporters.

I sure would like to know what the GPC has to say about this. However, I have a feeling that is asking more then Joe asking us to sign up for something we don't even need.

when the internet, ipods and all that other crap disappear i for one will still be enjoying the hobby, helping the OAF and solving cancer with my own seed sales.

nice post iceman, good luck with getting an answer.

11/7/2011 10:52:45 AM

canal winchester ohio

I just read some more posts...revenue sharing..LOL..don't hold your breath. It's every club for itself.

11/7/2011 10:53:17 AM

Eastern Pennsylvania

I just got back from a trip where I had no Internet. I havent had time to read thru all these posts. No matter- It has already been discussed with the GPC last week. One thing I am not clear on is if non club auctions were given consideration during Saturday's auction night chat/ raffle.

Add my name to the list. Jim gerhardt president MAGPG

11/7/2011 11:01:43 AM

canal winchester ohio

another possible problem from this no one sees is faking of seeds. 3-4 years ago when seed prices were thru the roof the problem was huge with fakes floating around. As prices have dropped so has the faked seeds. Now 3-4 years later there are probably 35% more growers at least so with that much more demand no one thinks as prices go up again the faking won't pick back up?

11/7/2011 11:02:00 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

A new website morphing off of a similar name....changing out only a dash?>>>?? Further killing our ability to grow forward??? How do our clubZ compete with this??? SHAME on this... Smoke and MirrorZ....
Thanks ICEMAN!
Now see why...something needs to be done or our efforts will DIE ON THE VINE....that have grown for so long.... for a few that have to profit off of others effortZ that have built this hobby UP?....SHAME I will never support this...new website....NEVER! You dont either PLEASE.

11/7/2011 11:45:06 AM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

I'l take a stab at your question Eddy- "What and how do you plan to deal with private seed sales like this?"

A: Absolutely nothing, no more than I would with the Dills, P and P, Medwyns.. well you get the point.

PG- I'm not sure anyone else will respond to your question, right now our balance is in the ballpark of $300, give or take, I don't handle the money. Money raised by our club goes to the expected things, operating costs, prizes and ribbons. We have a social comittee and some funds are used for cards, condolences, flowers etc. for members. We don't require a lot of money and we DO NOT have a set prize structure, it can vary year to year. We have our own club weigh off and we sponsor the "Hilda Dill" or prettiest pumpkin in Windsor as well. The prize money is what we can afford, a little less this year than past years, $300 1st, $150 2nd and $50 for 3rd. If we make $1500 this season, that's our budget. If I drop dead, then ribbons it is. Like many others, I look for new and innovative ways to help my club, at the end of the day we deal with what we have and enjoy the "funner" aspects this hobby has to offer. Hope this helps.

11/7/2011 11:45:57 AM

Knopp, Germany

Why do we not see growers that have grown pumpkins over 1400 pounds bidding on seeds? The occaisional HH does bid, but money bags knows who he is...LOL

Why do these same growers have those seeds to grow that new growers spend hundreds of dollars for at auctions?

So, the new growers spend hundreds of dollars for seeds that only a small percentage of result in anything, and the growers with experience and connections get the seeds for free and win all the money at the weigh offs the new growers sponsored.

When was the last time someone spent 200-500 dollars on a seed and won a weigh off with it?

Where is here "Ethics"?

Soldiers have ethics, policeman and fireman too.

If the clubs want ethics, then no one, NO ONE, gets seeds without having to be a member of the club, or bid at auctions.

This is not jack and the beanstalk, bid very carefully and within your budget for the HHs to win.

11/7/2011 12:34:02 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

PG,
I take a stab at that one...
Membership $35.
RMGVG Club membership gets a tee.
DropZ'em HARD teeZ...High Quality, preshrunkem, dye not paint...dbl side print.
Costs for a XL- 17$ 3XL add 2$ more. Shipping - 2 $ more depends on where is goes....Envelope - guess 50cents, Ink for printer, I like color...30$ a cartridge X 4. My printer NO CHARGE> paper - $4 500 sheets.
Club BubZ.... $1 per bub, postage, - 2-3 $ Depending on how many seeds and where.
Decal I like putting in those bubZ...maybe a business card. and have but need more... DecalZ... $250 for the last bulk purchase from .
Pizza, beer, and pop for our seed get together.....$150
Club Newsletter - FREE give it out to anyone that asks and posted on our site.
So about at $23 so far. Havent got yet to the Spring meeting....another lunch and beverage service, club giveaways, donated Rockie tickets, everyone ususally walks away with something,,,even if its a bag of coffee groundZ.
Last two year...was able to buy some ammendments bulk, Humic and alfalfa..... Added only the costs for another growers gas to go and get it... Year before, shipped in a pallet of Seaweed 45 lb bags..... Didnt add any extra $$ for the club. Passed that on to the grower. Guess I should of charged more for it...I dont want to.

Patch Tour...passed BIOTA MAX purchased with club funds to everyone who showed up... Meant to at the spring meeting, but they didnt arrive in time. Could see sending them out in the mail, more postage, but wanted to....NEEDED help, I wanna grow too!
So much more... Had to this year tell the growers I cannot always give a new shirt every year...without increasing club membership fees....that hurt but told them it depends upon our seed auction... Gave them out anywiZe. Did same at seed auction......

11/7/2011 12:41:02 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

This year wanna buy a BIG RMGVG club flag to put next to the American and Colorado State flag we fly.....next to the RMGVG banners we purchased...like the GPC one...it all adds up. I dont want to raise my club membership to $45...Ouch....ANd want to give more to out of state club members that dont get to show up at our events....

11/7/2011 12:41:12 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

Other clubs do even better stuff....I want to emulate them.

11/7/2011 12:44:20 PM

canal winchester ohio

Last year I bid & won on 5 different lots in last years many auctions. I didn't want or need the seed I was bidding on I just wanted to help the club that was holding the auction. but with the impression I'm getting that someone or somebodies wanting to inflate those prices I have bid for the last time...period. no exceptions. And from reading these posts & thru emails I've gotten lately & rumblings in chat I think I'm not alone.
Please explain how it's not a version of trying to price fix.

11/7/2011 12:46:06 PM

Jericho Vermont

I am not going to remark on my personal feelings or the morality of another privatization of seed sales, I do know there are a few from the past. As far as I know it is legal to do such things. I think the big conversation now needs to be on the topic of what's next. I think our hobby will always have loyalist, but let's face it, the almighty dollar (or other currency) is king and saturation decreases value. We are going to need to re-prioritize our needs and get creative with ideas. Let's not just stand around and complain about what we can't control, lets work together to come up with out of the box ideas. National sponsorships? Business partners both local and world wide? Product endorsements? Maybe a mainstream product that can be sold worldwide such as Girl Scout cookies or the popcorn Boy Scouts sell? I don't know the answers, but they are there we just need to ask the right questions!
John

11/7/2011 12:55:59 PM

Alaska

Hey hows about fewer weigh off sites? Combine the smaller clubs and pool the money. Try to team up with state fairs that way there is more to offer and the ex poser will be way better? The market is saturated plain and simple. Our only giant vegetable show is held at the Alaska State Fair every year. Yes lots of folks come for the giant veggies but many more come for other things. Like they say it's just a matter of getting them in the door. IMHO.

11/7/2011 1:09:26 PM

Ontario

The writing has been on the wall for awhile now and lets just say there is no easy answer. It does piss me off that third party sellers are taking out a large portion of the pumpkin spending dollar but you really can't fault the pumpkin grower. Cash is cash and it's nice to be rewarded for all the time and resources you put in to the hobby. I'm on a club executive board and believe me we don't really need the extra work to raise funds the membership expects.It's hard enough as it is to get volunteers. The issue is not falling seed prices but seeds are just not being donated but rather sold to these third parties. It's a free market out there but morally I can't see this being good for the growing community at all. Maybe a boycott of these venders products? Are clubs to buy seeds from growers for resale in future? How does selling pumpkin scout cookies sound? ;0)

11/7/2011 1:34:25 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Respectfully Phil, a boycott of these vendors is a terrible idea. Some of these vendors created this sport/hobby. Way too many growers and high end seeds for the vendors to snap up even if they wanted to. Last year I had no trouble getting heavy hitters to part with their seeds ( for our auction ).

There has been evidence of price fixing which concerns me very much. I say keep it simple- fund raise and plan your weigh-off with what you have to work with. If the previous posts are true, that shouldn't be a problem, but we're getting off topic ;)

11/7/2011 1:55:49 PM

Littlerock, WA

By signing this, would the grower then object to giving seeds away to another grower? It seems like this 'oath' would discourage the friendly practice of seed swapping and bubble-sending. It will make me feel a little strange asking another grower for a seed this year....will they think I'm trying to bypass the auction? I like e-mailing/writing other growers instead of purchasing seeds at auction because it gives me a chance to form a relationship with that grower. It's the friendships formed through this strange hobby, not the prize money gained through auctions, that I'll bet are most important to growers.

11/7/2011 2:02:25 PM

Weatherman

Ohio has 8 weigh off sites counting Circleville, how are all of the clubs suppose to survive? Our club pays out for news letters, office supply's, stamps, extra mailing, picnic food and drinks at patch tours. At weigh-off, ribbons, rent toilets, rent tow motor and rent scales. Prize money, I have never seen anyone return the prize money and say I just wanted to show my pumpkin and the club can keep the money.

11/7/2011 2:46:35 PM

St. Thomas Ontario

(This thread is more stressfull than the maternity ward;)

Gotta be a balance somewhere though. I've Been at this a long time and have bought, sold, donated, heck even eaten my own seeds. I like where we live and the relative freedom that goes with it.

Clubs are important for the growth of this hobby. Money is important for the support of clubs, $$ is also important for the growth of my fruit (Facts of the world in which I live).

I for one, with a decent fruit this year will try very hard to support clubs around the world with a seeds which have been proven to produce a monster. If One is required for your club please just ask. Please don't be shocked and appalled though if you see one of my seeds for sale at a reasonble price for general consumption by an entity who's bussiness is seed distibution to the masses. This is where I started and hold one in particular in very high esteem.

Happy growing

J.Jarvis

11/7/2011 4:22:35 PM

Port Elgin, Ontario, Canada

Wow! I am so torn and I have so many conflicting interpretations of this. I will see if I can summarize some of my thoughts on this:

1) Port Elgin Pumpkinfest is not a club, although we are very closely associated to the GVGO and, in the past, the GPC
2) We use our donated seeds in various different ways - we fundraise for the international seminar in Niagara Falls (intended to benefit growers worldwide - GPC or not) This seminar may now be in jeopardy after 13 years, with the introduction of Vegas. We will request seeds again this year and hope to fundraise for this event with a silent auction on our own webpages to help keep the costs associated with hosting a convention in a tourist destination such as this as low as possible. We do not profit from the Niagara seminar.

We also sell seeds throughout the year on-line and at the weigh-off as another income line on our profit/loss statements - our total expenses equal over $250,000 to host the two day weigh-off and our mandate is only to promote and increase tourism to our area - it is a non-profit organization and very transparent of it's financial reporting. It is not supposed to make any money and if it does it goes into improving our weigh-off and/or other events. In other words, directly back into the hobby and it's promotion.

As I read all these posts I realize that that line item in our financials is probably going to decrease dramatically -especially as we no longer partner with the GPC on this event and we are not raising funds for any particular club. I am disheartened to think that people may consider the fundraising efforts of Port Elgin Pumpkinfest as unethical or in any way for personal gain. I guess I will just have to wait and see what will happen and keep my chin up.

11/7/2011 5:06:15 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

Sally, got your bulk seeds ready to go...send me that bub.... And I look forward to going to the new Niagara....in 2013 too many friends made over the last years in Niagara.....that Ill miss.
Jarvis...Send me your email address so I can send that letter out for the RMGVG auction request, with a post paid bub..and in return...you'll get our latest RMGVG DropZ'em HARD tee, I even have WeighZ'em HEAVY WiZZy mugs left for the seedZ that bring in more money for the club. Those cost the club....50$ total....
What comeZ around, growZ around.

11/7/2011 6:03:19 PM

Bristol R.I. USA

I was told a few years ago. If you have seeds then youre free to do as you please with them. If you mandate a certain code of ethics on seed auctions then in my opinion its wrong. If a grower want to donate seeds to a fundraiser or special auction then that grower has evrry right to do what they please with those seeds. You say the life blood of clubs are seed auctions and I agree. What about auctions that allow for a special fund raiser in mind. Are we gonna say ethics dictate you can't be part of an auction or donate seed to an auction because the clubs not getting any funds from it. Bottom line is most of the genetics out there that has made the hobby what it is has been grown from seeds that where give to a particular grower out of generosity. I totally like club seed auctions and special auctions to help people out or to help an organization. What i'm hearing here is certain people wanna stop all non club seed fundraising and auctioning.

11/7/2011 7:51:31 PM

Gays Mills, Wisconsin

Interpretation/Clarification

.....In conclusion, this document proposes that growers unite together and openly embrace:

“I, as a grower, support fundraising activities that directly benefit giant pumpkin clubs/organizations who’s mission it is to further the hobby of growing giant pumpkins.” ......

This simple conclusion as stated does not affect the person who "signs on in support" with any restrictions (does it?).

As far as seed auctions for fundraising, I believe
donating/buying seeds is a voluntary measure by the grower.

Can't BP allow whatever it wants on it's site? Can't the GPC endorse certain BP activities and disagree with others?

Yes there should be support for fundraising (including auctions) and other pumpkin related activities on the BP site that are endorsed by the GPC.

The use of the BP site in other ways is for Ken to decide.

This would require the GPC to establish a set of guidelines to follow to determine what/why it would endorse something. I believe this would be a positive step towards accountability of the GPC as our governing body and help us as the future of our giant pumpkin community grows.

John Barlow

11/7/2011 8:06:45 PM

Western NY

wiZ, sounds like you need to reel in the spending. Just because you want to doesn't mean it make cents. :)

11/7/2011 8:08:26 PM

Bristol R.I. USA

Do you honestly think that if people where to ask for money rather then have a seed auction that they'd get much money. A seed auction Is exciting and it brings in money. From what i'm reading it seems that there are certain people that wanna dictate how things should be for all growers and clubs. I certainly don't support anything like that. Look at some of the growers who give seeds to other growers every year getting nothing in return. I this new "code of ethics" gonna dictait that they can't or shouldn't give out seeds to growers and seeds should be obtained from auction only?? Is there gonna be bad blood from grower to grower because they have an auction to support a particular charity? I'm sorry if a club is struggling to meet the needs. Maybe prize money could be taken down a bit. Maybe you raise dues up a little. Get sponors in the local community as well as corperate sponsors. Listen if the hobby is growing thats what we want. More members mean more interest. More intrest means more exposure. I really find it selfish to ask that seed sales to be done through club only auctions. A few years ago I posted a post that pertained to seeds being planted rather then collected. I was nailed by some people I really respected, people who I care about. Growers where ready to shoot me. Needless to say I was taken back and hurt at what was said to me. Now after a few years have passed growers want to hold back seeds and not flood the market and club seed auctions only! I'm not a heavy hitter I may not even be a good grower but one thing is for sure I care about this hobby and wanna see it grow. I also wanna see charities like the OAF continue its work as well as any other seed drivr or auction that benafits people. I understand politics like this isn't easy and bringing this to a forum is opening you up for attack. But the direction thats being proposed here doesnt look like its taking the hobby in the right direction.

11/7/2011 8:21:11 PM

Bristol R.I. USA

So for the record i'll say. I've gotten good seeds from the club and i've supported the OAF seed drive. I planted a few of the seeds and given a lot of them away. No mandated code will stop me from doing this. I must say that ive been away from the sight for a while and this certainly has hit the hobby like cow flapps to a fan.

11/7/2011 8:31:59 PM

Deer Park, WI

Mr. Barlow, your post comes as a breath of fresh air and a sense of clarity. You are spot on.

11/7/2011 8:38:59 PM

Ontario

Perhaps a simple agreement to allow clubs, pumpkin organizations and established charities to hold their auctions and sales first during the peak auction season from November through March. This is a pumpkin site and they should have the first chance to raise much needed funds. Private auctions for select causes could be held after this time which seems to be the way things are going.
The biggest problem that I see is the always increasing amount of auctions and sales during a difficult economy with a growing sport/hobby. I always enjoy purchasing a seed or two during the off-season to support this hobby but with so many groups involved now it seems that expectations will have to be a little lower and organizations will need to find new sources of revenue.

11/7/2011 9:03:45 PM

Port Elgin, Ontario, Canada

nice Chris L!

11/7/2011 9:17:48 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Agreed Chris. Our club is facing the same challenges as most other clubs. In no way have I ever endorsed the elimination of charitable events such as the OAF cause of Coats For Kids.

Our club is experiencing some real needs in order to survive here. Seed auctions have never been our single source of operating revenue, but HAS been the MAJOR source.

What I've seen the past couple of years is growers whose seeds are in high demand restrict the distribution of their seeds based on the promise of growing those seeds as a condition. Those same growers are also dedicated to sending seeds out to the clubs first for fund-raising. To them, I say THANK YOU.

I attribute the restricted distribution to those who have made it a practice to collect seeds and use them as a trading device for those seeds which are currently "hot". I, as a club secretary, have access to some of the most demanded seeds in the hobby but, if you look at my "collection", you'll find nothing more than the seeds I have purchased at auction or were given by growers not by my asking, but because they chose to give them to me.

Just look at the number of high value seeds being offered or sought after by people here on BP.com. I'm betting that many of those who offer seeds for trade received them directly from growers who sent them thinking that person would plant them.

11/7/2011 9:34:03 PM

South East

Getting back to the original open letter. Is there really a problem? Is there going to be a problem in the future ? The complaint is:
"Giant pumpkin organizations are currently struggling to find dollars to operate on."
And now growers need to unite to stand firm against these entities that take away the revenue that the pumpkin clubs really should be getting and deserve by siging an "ethic" code to no longer buy at seed auction from a non pumpkin related organizer. The statement sounds harmless, but everthing written to explain is not.
Buying seeds from such an auction would now be " un-ethical " lol.

Clubs got a hard time making ends meat, but

Isnt that the case thru out american society these days? Houses forclosed, jobs lost, businesses closing...
And giant pumpkin clubs are suppose to prosper? Worry about not meeting there budget?

Meeting once budget is a problem for everyone. At work, At home, heck even the goverment( especcialy them)

Is the solution to give money to charities but to save seed auctions only for the benifit of the clubs? Should clubs have the monopoly on auctions because they are responsible for the growth of the hobby. NO, there should be room for every body.
Its the responsibility of each club themselves to balance their budget. Just like you do at home. If theres less money coming in, then that means your gonna have to spend less. If your weigh off sponsor walked away this year, then maybe no free t- shirt, or only 3 newsletters instead of 4, maybe entree fees or lower pay outs.

11/7/2011 9:50:23 PM

South East

So instead of looking outward, and pointing the fingers at others who " steal or take" the revenue of pumpkin clubs,clubs need to look inward and balance their budget with cutting the spending and looking for alternitives. live (or grow) within your means.

But does this all matter? A group representing a small part of the world wide growing community appearently has already approached Ken and the GPC to make changes that perhaps will change the face of bp and of the growing community forever. And after the fact, we (the rest) get asked to sign a dressed up approval/ethic code.

I hope you really think it thru Ken, the implications are permanent, but Im sure you will.

11/7/2011 9:50:52 PM

Littleton, Colorado

Very well said Tina and Frank

11/7/2011 10:12:32 PM

South East

oh and Ken,,while your thinking,,how an edit button for spelling errors,,lol

11/7/2011 10:13:07 PM

canal winchester ohio

I think we are about to "jump the shark".

11/7/2011 10:13:24 PM

virginia

Thats the truth Tina....greg

11/7/2011 10:36:52 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

While I am with you philosophically Tina, realistically I am not. We are looking at a backwards step here in what is the stated goal of the GPC-to grow the hobby. Asking clubs to trim their budget rather than move forward is promoting self-destruction.

11/7/2011 11:17:41 PM

Salinas, Ca

You should be able to find the income/expenses and balance sheet of any non-profit filing a 990 exempt tax return at this site:

http://foundationcenter.org/findfunders/990finder/

Simply type a key word into the "organization name" field, something like "pumpkin" and enter a tax year, "2010" for example and you should get a list of hits.

11/7/2011 11:52:27 PM

Bristol R.I. USA

Joze, Its tough enough to get people to give to charities as it is having a seed is an added incentive for a grower to give to a particular charity in hopes of obtaining a world class seed that they really wanna plant. I guarentee if you ask for donations from people it would be much more difficult to obtain the amount that's raised from a seed auction. I certainly would never say that pumpkin growers aren't generouse. far from that. Issues like this tend to really turn me off. I've seen at many club auctions, seeds going through the roof especially the proven seeds or seeds with interesting genetics. You can make the starting bids on your auctions as high as you want. It stands to reason that if you have more intrest in the hobby then there will be more interest in the club auctions. So in the future do you see growers selling their seeds? Would you think its ethical? I have to say this suggestion really has me floored. I just can't believe it. I think Tina says it best "Live and grow within your means".I really think having some growers sign a petition or approval sheet is just wrong. It's tough to say this because I really think they're good people and have the hobby at heart. It just seems like it forced on people.I'm sorry I just don't respect the way this appears. I may never grow a world record but like most growers here I try to beat my best year after year. I don't regret speaking my mind about this because I've supported some of the auctions and charitable organizations. its just disenchanting to see s handful of growers mandating ethics to other people saying their unethical if they don't follow this new policy.

11/7/2011 11:58:17 PM

Macomb County

Practices I find objectional are ones like the following. There are weigh-offs that not only charge you an entry fee, but also force you to donate seed from your pumpkin or pumpkins to support the organizers favorite charities.

Another one is, many growers like auctions. However, many growers don't like them, for the same reason they don't like auctions on E-Bay. Put a bid in and get beat the last 15 seconds.

The reason many growers prefer to deal with Danny Dill, Joel Holland or Silly Seeds. And did the old Seed Outlet.
They want to know the price of a seed while supplies last.

There are other ways to raise money for clubs and charities. Every spring, I start 100 plants and donate them to a local boy scout troop. They sell them for $5.00 a plant and sell out each year too.

This is just my two cents. But it sounds like we're talking price fixing and not only does it sound impossible, but unethical too.

11/8/2011 1:08:54 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Frank, & Tina...seriously?...Ken has been asked to support this? I for one, am on your side... wait, better said, I am on MY side, and hope Ken notices this noncense (JMHO) also!!! Sorta thinkin if Ken signs on...then no more bp.com auction fundraiser? LOL Peace, Wayne
PS..OAF,bp.com, and other needed fundraisers should not be shut out!!! Local groups should seek other venues, if seed sales(bp.com auctions) cannot fully fund their weighoffs)!!!
PPS...seed sales from private sites like Xtreme...have been going on for years, and don't seem to make a big difference!!! JMHO!!! Peace, Wayne

11/8/2011 4:18:37 AM

Litchfield N. H. 03052

Get ready to throw stones . What clubs do to raise money is their busness , no one is forced to buy or bid on auctions . Linda and I manage the NH OAF ( we will be out buying coats today ), the monies comes from 50/50 raffels and donations. I have refused money for my seeds , given to many clubs and individuals, thats my busness not yours .
I have refused to give and have given to " special causes" , my busness. If a person is bothered buy special auctions , don't give or buy . I do not like growers trying to control the price of seeds. BR

11/8/2011 5:12:06 AM

Long Island,New York

I'm gonna sit here patiently and wait for McPumpkins response..........

11/8/2011 5:36:42 AM

Annapolis Valley Nova Scotia

"There is a general consensus that we, the growers, need to come forth with general principles for how our seeds are marketed. We the leaders of clubs and weigh-off sites prefer to collaborate with the G.P.C. Directors and Ken D. of BigPumpkins.com to propose guidelines as to how this should be done. We await their input on this matter."

I am struggling to see any consensus

11/8/2011 7:33:06 AM

Saegertown Pa.

I can't speak for anyone else to why they signed the letter but I can tell you why I did. It's not because I'm an evil charity hating person, it's not because I want to drive up seed prices, it's not because there is a hidden agenda and I could go on. Over the last two years charity auctions have sky rocked any one can have a auction and use the word charity and it's all right. If sally Jane's butter fly club needs money all she has to do is email growers get some seeds and go onto BP and have an auction. John smith wants to have a football pool sell some seeds it's all right no one will say anything. There are 1000's of good charities out there should they all run a seed auction ? were do you draw the line, no one wants' to say no and be the bad guy. Were will we be five years from now ? Will there be 50 charity auctions 75 you tell me. Who suffers, the small clubs that don't give out the big money there the ones that don't have enough money to run there club not the bigger clubs. Should there be a few exceptions ? Yes the kids for coats is one Dick has been running this for years and I have donated seeds ever year and will do so as long as he asks. And don't worry Ken is not going to sigh this letter or the GPC. Maybe if some one would have stepped up a few years ago there wouldn't be a problem, but then again it seems like most don't foresee a problem. And for those that ask do I think seed money for clubs is more impotent than cancer or some other disease, no I don't. but I would ask you how much money do you give each year to charity ? Is that big screen TV that cell phone or candy bare more impotent then and disease ? For me it was time some one said somthing and thats why I sighned the letter.

11/8/2011 7:35:50 AM

East Jordan, MI

I have been reading and re-reading the "Fundraising Code of Ethics" trying to understand what is ethical about price fixing. And in my opinion, that is what is being attempted.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing): Price fixing is an agreement between participants on the same side in a market to buy or sell a product, service, or commodity only at a fixed price, or maintain the market conditions such that the price is maintained at a given level by controlling supply and demand. The group of market makers involved in price fixing is sometimes referred to as a cartel.

The intent of price fixing may be to push the price of a product as high as possible, leading to profits for all sellers but may also have the goal to fix, peg, discount, or stabilize prices. The defining characteristic of price fixing is any agreement regarding price, whether expressed or implied.


I am not a HH, have only been growing for 2 years and I do it for the love of it. I supported almost every single auction held last year (my first year) even though I have free access to some of the best genetics available. Bought more seeds than I will EVER grow. GAVE AWAY many of them, including a 1502 Wallace, a 1495 Stelts, 2 1274 Stelts, a 1622 Young, several Daletas and Courson, too many to list. Why did I do that? To give back to the hobby. To give someone that didn't have the means to get those seeds a chance at a huge pumpkin.

11/8/2011 7:57:45 AM

East Jordan, MI

Did I grow a single one that I bought? No.
Will I? Maybe.
Will I buy more seeds to support the auctions? Yes.
Will I spend $300 for a seed? Most likely not. Why? because I don't think a $300+ seed is that much better -- maybe that is why I'm not a HH.
Could I use the money for something else? Yes, but I did it anyway. Why, because I wanted to support the hobby.
I am also members of 4 different clubs. Pay membership dues to support each of those clubs.
Would I pay more in dues? Probably.
Will I weigh a pumpkin at those clubs? Not all of them.
What do I expect in return? not much. Friendships, sharing of information and the hope that they will do their best to use those funds towards making this hobby better.
Do I need a $5000+ prize to try and grow the biggest one I can? No.
Would I choose a weigh off that had a big prize over my local home town weigh off for my best one? NO!
Is there a finite amount of money I'm willing to use to support the hobbby? Yes.
Is my first priority my local club? Yes.
Will I only support my local club? No, Why not, because by supporting the other clubs we can all learn from each other, that is what has and will continue to make this hobby better than any other I have participated in.

It is a hobby guys. It is supposed to be fun. Let's not lose sight of that.

I will chose who I support, and I will decide how I will support them.

11/8/2011 7:57:55 AM

Rhode Island

here is the seed distribution priority that ron and i use each and every year.

1. first to the clubs that request seeds for their auction---we realize seed sales and auctions do account for a great percentage of these clubs working capital.we support all clubs fundraisers when possible.
2. we set aside twenty five to fifty seeds from each pumpkin (depending on seed volumn)for our own personal stock
3. we honor as long as supplies last every bubble that comes our way. which is usually quite a few, thats also how we got our start many years ago. you cant loose sight of that.
4. while i agree that some auctions for example little leagues,etc, that type,would seem to be out of place on bp auctions?,you as the grower do not have to give if you choose not to do so.its a matter of choice.

in closing id like to add that every one who posted up on this subject has a right to have their voice heard.whether you agree or disagree with the posts opening statement, whether you sign or do not sign has no bearing on friendships ron and i have formed over the years.

in the end, there are more pressing problems in life than this subject.

pap

11/8/2011 8:07:40 AM

Knopp, Germany

Pap,

I agree:

"in the end, there are more pressing problems in life than this subject"

maybe it all comes down to one thing:

Niagra moved to Vegas, that cost more money, holy crap, we need more money!

11/8/2011 9:39:08 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

VEGAS will be good for ALL, sharing the information across a wider and different grower base was long overdue.

I know the GPC has open minds, a great representation of different minds and thinking....representation of the whole..... And wants to teach and share this hobby for the good of the many.

We have dreams about wanting to move the grower’s seminar all over... even to Europe possible someday. Not just Niagara..... And it won’t happen for free....

“Some men and women see things as they are and ask why.... Others dream things that never were and ask why not.......”

How could that be BAD? Sharing the rewards and successes of growers within our hobby with a new base of folks, and bringing in growing experts to teach the attendees that will open more possible minds and doors for continued growth....?

Owen, "Don’t put words in the mouth of the GPC". I have typed that one before.....

GPC has a sensitivity of doing what is in the best interests of this hobby and their mission statement, everything has limitations.

I am only a single voice on a committee that works hard to do it right, do it properly, and with passion, plus I can type fast, and at times too fast…….

I do know the GPC wants to and will release words of what the GPC is for, OBJECTIVELY...... The Mission statement stands as those before us that have created it for a reason......... We all have real jobs to do as well.
Mine starts again Monday of next week.
Thank You.
Sorry GPC if I have spoken out of turn.....
It'Z me funny hat...

11/8/2011 10:16:34 AM

Minnesota

Awesome idea GiantJack on giving seedlings to the boyscouts to sell.

11/8/2011 10:16:34 AM

Knopp, Germany

And when in my post did i mention the GPC?

Owen, "Don’t put words in the mouth of the GPC". I have typed that one before....."

11/8/2011 10:20:33 AM

ipswich, ma usa

If this is such a hot and heavy issue why was it not addressed by the GPC then trickled down to the GPC regional site reps and then down to the club directors? Being a director in one of the original weigh off sites I really don't like coming onto the BP.com boards and seeing this "pledge". "It has been discussed amongst the leaders of multiple regional weigh-off sites that the value of giant pumpkin seeds has been decreasing, specifically the auction seed pricing." Really? Discussed amongst the leaders?..The East coast not count? Never heard anything about it till coming onto this thread. I think if a club is strong and run well then it will survive, if it's weak it will not. There is no need for a "pumpkin bail out"! or "re-distribution of pumpkin wealth", man sounds like something I have seen before somewhere, hows that working out for ya?....Bill, George, Woody, Dick, Tina, Frank I'm with you. Let the clubs do with their seed and money as they wish. If you don't want to support an auction then don't.

John (5150) -- Director NEGPGA (Topsfield Fair Weigh off)

11/8/2011 10:22:27 AM

Central Minnesota

Wow just got done reading all this and that was a lot. I would have no problem adding my name to the open letter. I don't see this as dictating my choices at all but rather, clubs asking that they be considered first by growers when it comes to providing seeds.

It is obvious that those that run clubs support this and I support them. I don't have the time to donate to my club and am thankful for those that do. In return, I am glad to donate my seeds to them for fund raising activities. Most people have no idea how much time and effort goes into running a club or organizing a weigh-off and are reading WAY to deep into this open letter.

11/8/2011 10:28:50 AM

Knopp, Germany

BTW, i have never supported a European version of Niagra Wiz, and they have been doing one over here for the last 2-3 years, did you know that?

so, i support a small website that has yearly meetings. they are nice people, and the meeting cost pennies, we all enjoy ourselves, have a powerpoint slide show on what to do better, and offer crtique.

we enjoy it when we see each other at the weigh offs, and are happy for each other when someone wins.

11/8/2011 10:36:46 AM

Ontario

Thanks MNFisher..... it's nice to see some people get it!! So many people are reading way to deep into this, is exactly right... all the letter is asking is that you support this statement....

“I, as a grower, support fundraising activities that directly benefit giant pumpkin clubs/organizations who’s mission it is to further the hobby of growing giant pumpkins.”

It say's nothing about who to or who not to support...just that as a grower I support the clubs.... Without all these clubs...none of this would be where it is today...and what's crazy is all of this time to run and grow these clubs is put in on a volunteer basis!! So many people put so many hours in and ask nothing in return but the support of other growers who love this hobby!!

Fairly simple in my eyes...we just need to start thinking about the future of our hobby now.....and make an effort to support the clubs so all can benefit!!

11/8/2011 11:03:12 AM

Knopp, Germany

Why is it always that those that post in favor of a "code of ethics" get it?

Are the rest of us imbeciles?

11/8/2011 11:07:46 AM

Knopp, Germany

"VEGAS will be good for ALL, sharing the information across a wider and different grower base was long overdue."

r u serious?

11/8/2011 11:24:09 AM

Macomb County

I guess what I'm having a hard time understanding is how this involves Ken and bp?

Auctions are risky propositions. Sometimes they raise money. Other times, they don’t. That’s both private and charity.

I don’t understand the charity and pumpkin growing connection. Some growers are financially well off and others are living below the poverty line. If some growers want to make a name for themselves as charity supporters,fine. But I don’t feel other growers should be strong armed or embarrassed into backing such growers.

This is just my two cents again. But talk like this makes me want to go back to my innocent Linus days of only caring about having a sincere pumpkin patch. Not the clubs and the Hollywood glamour of reporters and TV appearances and all that.

But again, I’m just wondering how this involves Ken and bp?

11/8/2011 11:30:10 AM

JACKSON, WISCONSIN. ; )

all i have to say is... add my name to that list joe.

11/8/2011 11:38:27 AM

Deer Park, WI

John (5150)- A few weeks ago I put a post on the general forum encouraging club/organization leaders to submit their email addresses to me in the interest of establishing an email network of club leaders so that matters such as the above could be addressed. To my knowledge, your email address is not on this list. If that was my oversight, I apologize. BTW, the east does count, as the majority of names in my database are from east coast club leaders.

Those who chose to be on this list received the code of ethics proposal prior to it being posted here. Despite one's feelings on this matter, my invitation to the club leader email network remains open to all.

Regarding the GPC, I and others have compelled the executive committee to review the code prior to its posting here and, from a larger perspective, make the grower population aware of what the GPC stands for. As Wiz alluded to in a previous post, it appears as tho the GPC will come forth with information in the near future.

11/8/2011 11:48:36 AM

Knopp, Germany

"Those who chose to be on this list received the code of ethics proposal prior to it being posted here."

what list?

11/8/2011 11:51:54 AM

Knopp, Germany

now we have a list of growers that determine our fate. guess they know better then their members.

11/8/2011 11:56:55 AM

Knopp, Germany

God bless America.

11/8/2011 11:59:53 AM

El Paso TX.

@BPMailey -- But isn't that statement as worded pretty obvious that all growers would feel that way and why would a petition need to be signed to say so ? (perhaps that is why people are reading more of an underlying meaning there.) And who is to say what does or doesn't further the hobby more . For example say a seed is donated to a charity auction to benefit a certain disease -- and someone buys the seed to help the charity and then grows that seed and winds up getting hooked on growing and begins to distribute the seeds from that effort to people around him and they begin to grow didn't the grower that donated that seed to that auction further the hobby of growing giant pumpkins by getting someone that was not involved in the hobby involved more than a seed sold from a club auction to a HH with extra funds that takes it and adds it to his Freezer?

I think all growers understand the clubs need support and the amount of seeds given to the clubs to auction off confirms this.

11/8/2011 12:03:16 PM

Knopp, Germany

i am going to start a new thread.

all i want to know is who you are, and if money means something.

i bet not one HH answers, the GPC will not answer, and the clubs that "earn" money will not answer.

11/8/2011 12:07:09 PM

Macomb County

To further qualify, we have a seed exchange on this site.
Like craig's list, if someone had a rare season and wanted a $1000 for it, they could post it.

On the other hand, we have an auctions on this site.

As a part of their botany merit badge, a local scout troop holds a seed and plant sale each Spring. Something clubs could do.

Not to mention a giant pumpkin sale in the fall to benefit their clubs.

Another group holds a pumpkin walk and does very well.
A giant pumpkin walk might do even better.

There are a number of ways to raise money for a club.

11/8/2011 12:12:45 PM

Bristol R.I. USA

BpMailey, I don't think anyone has a issue with supporting clubs but have you read the proposal. I never started growing for prize money. If clubs have an issue with getting money then they need to find ways to raise funds. I'll support their auctions, just think if some of the heavy hitters decided to not donate seeds to auctions and just give them away. would you think they'd be unethical. I hold nobody in contempt or ridicule from this but I really think that before posting this more thought should have been put into it. If you wanna get upset at growers that sell seeds then thats your opinion, but mandating that the cultural norm is to only hold seed auctions and that seeds be bought only from club auctions is just wrong. I don't have the funds to pay 400 plus for a seed. I have children and a house. If a grower wants to give me a seed for me to plant it is that grower unethical? Are they taking funds from a clubs seed auctions? I think not. If certain R.I. growers hadn't given me seeds then I wouldn't be growing today.By this proposal it basically puts a lock on certain seeds from growers and some heavy hitters have already said its their seeds and they'll do as they please. Yes we do need to think about the future and thinking about the future means starting now. Auctions and fundraisers, sponsors. I buy all my garden products and it gets tough to do that, I don't get anything donated to me at all. I'm a worker bee but if I have to only get seeds from auctions then I'll grow seeds obtained from the grower or my own. I have to tell you that I'm really disapointed in some of the growers here. No disrespect to anyone but come on man give me a break.

11/8/2011 12:17:37 PM

Wi

Agreed Bryan.

This is very very simple. We are simply asking that before you bid on a seed in the "Jane's butterfly club" auction that you first consider the clubs.

Please do not draw conclusions and make assumptions and post them here for everyone to read and "jump on the bandwagon."

11/8/2011 12:30:50 PM

Wi

Kenny, read my previous post. Just the middle paragraph. That's it. No cult / etc.

11/8/2011 12:36:48 PM

El Paso TX.

Chris -- Then why not make a post that says just that ? instead of starting off an "open Letter" that states --

"It has been discussed amongst the leaders of multiple regional weigh-off sites that the value of giant pumpkin seeds has been decreasing, specifically the auction seed pricing.

There is a general consensus that we, the growers, need to come forth with general principles for how our seeds are marketed."

11/8/2011 12:37:38 PM

Wi

Well JDFan, this is just me, but to me that's what it says. I guess my feeling is had it been one sentence with no explanation nobody would have paid attention.

Regarding inflation of pricing that is absolutely not the intention. Of course we would like to preserve pricing at a modest level before "Jane's butterfly club" takes over.

Those generous growers that participate in the auctions set the prices.

11/8/2011 12:51:26 PM

ipswich, ma usa

I'm still going to say it was not a good idea to start this here. Joe, not all of us are able to check BP.com every day or at that every week. I'll again ask, why was it not drilled down through the GPC site reps? Matt D is my site rep and I have correspondence with him all the time, he has my E-mail address. Would it have not been in the best interest to have communicated it this way and not just as an open letter?

11/8/2011 1:00:02 PM

canal winchester ohio

Chris I really feel that the bulk of the people on this site are smart & can see thru the "Jane's butterfly club" auctions that has been written.
Personally I don't like them, but if you look at those auctions the seeds are normally not as good which tells me the HH's don't think it's a good idea & don't give seeds to them & the prices these middle of the road seeds bring is small which tells me most growers on this site don't buy into it.
The most confusing part is the statement that ""By signing on, one is not bound to any sort of rule or law. We do not presume to force anyone's decision one way or another.""
If this is true & smart people can see some of these "Jane's butterfly club" for what they may be why open this can of worms.
It's kind of like drawing a line in the sand & saying don't cross it, but if you do I really won't do anything.
But I'm a non trusting sort by nature & I may be reading more into it than what it is so why take a action & say there is no plan. It makes no sense.

11/8/2011 1:03:32 PM

Lexington, Ky

Prices started their plummet when most of the heavy hitters openly refused to honor bubble requests...auctions/clubs only was the rally cry! Yeah, that worked on the newest of growers but those of us that have been around for awhile were at a minimum, slightly incensed. While not a bubbler myself, I openly refused to buy those growers' seeds at auction and I certainly wasn't the only one.

Seems like a couple of growers have a good year or two and they want to control seed distribution and price. And these same growers feel like they should be the voice of the growing community. Get a clue folks, the weather patterns shift and in two years, you'll be a mid pack grower once again, begging for seeds and hoping that you don't have to pay such a high price for good stock at the next auction.

No one does it better than the Wallaces, why is that so freakin' hard to understand?!

11/8/2011 1:29:27 PM

El Paso TX.

Chris - I guess you read it differently than I do then though I always thought a letter should state it's main purpose in the first few sentences and use the rest of the letter to explain the main point. So seeing it state that the leaders of weigh off sites have been discussing things and feel they need to establish general principles for how seeds are marketed to keep the prices from declining in the first couple lines gives me the impression that that is what they are emphasizing instead of asking for growers to support the clubs. Maybe it's just me but from the other posts here I think there are at least several others that interpreted it the same way.

I think we all can agree that supporting the clubs is important and if Finances permitted I think everyone would do more but I also feel that trying to manipulate the "Market" for seeds is not the way to gain that support. If seed prices decline and clubs can no longer support themselves simply from the Auctions then they should find new means of supporting themselves not try to manipulate the market to keep the prices high by attempting to get growers to only support club auctions at the cost of other causes that the growers feel need supporting.

11/8/2011 1:41:41 PM

Deer Park, WI

John- I encourage you to ask your site rep these questions. I've already stated that I submitted this to the GPC for review. I have no control over the time they need to formulate a response or what, if any, that response may be. And with the auction season on our doorstep, we are not inclined to sit and wait for a response from a governing body that may ultimately choose not to get involved.

To each their own opinion regarding how this matter should have been presented. Clearly, for those of us who signed on initially, we felt it appropriate to bring this matter to the forums where it can be discussed and debated exactly how it currently is. Because we are passionate about our beliefs and proactive by nature, we decided to act.

11/8/2011 1:43:26 PM

Alaska

Joze, this pledge would be a first step in the downfall of what has been up until now a thriving wonderful hobby. Leave well enough alone!

11/8/2011 2:34:39 PM

Alaska

And I quote. There is a general consensus that we, the growers, need to come forth with general principles for how "our seeds" are marketed.
Well after reading all of the comments so far I dare say there is a general consensus among the growers and it ain't the one you believe to be true. IMHO

11/8/2011 2:49:51 PM

Lexington, Ky

There is a general consensus that we, a few heavy hitters, need to come forth......IMHO

Stated well Scott, thank you.

I can see this whole thing backfiring.....

11/8/2011 2:56:50 PM

Wi

1320. Since I fit nicely into your second paragraph I'll do my best to address appropriately.

Since 2006 I've done everything I can to emulate Ron Wallace. Both inside and outside the patch. I truely feel it's worked out well for me in both cases.

I'm not sure how I could control seed prices, but I'll offer this. 1810 had what 26 seeds. 1468 had 130 I think and another 26 that were very poor quality, but growable. I received many bubbles and it KILLED me...just KILLED me to not be able to send everyone what they wanted. Picking and choosing was nearly impossible. Especially with some of the nice letters / pictures I've received. I literally drew names at the end.

It's incredibly difficult to deal with seed requests when you don't have a lot of seeds.

Look at Pap's priority list above and that's what I try to do. The only problem is I don't have a personal reserve because I don't have enough seeds!

11/8/2011 2:59:54 PM

Joliet, IL

Joe and all club directors on the list, thank you for caring enough and having enough passion about the hobby to put yourselves out there knowing it might be a "touchy subject". It takes guts to feel strongly enough about your convictions to state them in an open forum on a message board. I completely understand with the rapid expansion of weigh-offs, clubs, and consequently auctions that the intention is to catch the tiger by the tail. Direction. An eye on the future. Where is this all leading and can we as a whole community steer it in the best direction possible. Again, thanks for the courage to speak your minds.

To all the great thought provoking honest and open responses in this thread...thank you also for having the same passion to have your voices also heard and putting yourselves out there. This thread contains the voices of many. The more voices, the better the future of giant pumpkin growing.

With the amount of passion exhibited here, there has been plenty of thought building over the past years on where this is all headed where will it end up by many of us individually and within our own clubs. Some might say to just go with the flow and shut up and it will all work itself out in the end. Then you end up in a place or direction that many do not like and then some will say why didn't we see this coming and do something about it. It is a double edge sword. Never easy to catch a tiger by the tail. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

So with all that philosophcal crap i just said, lol, i just want to say i love this community and and all the passion we have amoungst us. With a thread like this and more voices than i have ever seen spoken with such conviction makes me proud to be a giant pumpkin grower in this day and age and i think we will find the best way collectively to steer the pumpkin boat forward without taking on to much water. Ya, that was a cheesy analogy....cheesey shazzy...lol.

11/8/2011 3:23:55 PM

Bristol,RI,USA.

I am sure by now that most of you have seen Dons new site
Xtremegardening.com sounds like a clearing house for giant pumpkin seeds. Now not being the brightest bulb in the socket, this may be the real thing on everybody’s mind!
Maybe I am wrong; don’t know, as for me we will always give what we can to who we can. God bless America! Good luck to all in 2012 grows big!
just figured I would put it out there

11/8/2011 3:26:51 PM

Marion, Wisconsin

After spending more than an hour reading all this I tried to come up with an idea that could help clubs increase seed prices at auctions. First, how many members does your club have? How many of your members participate in seed auctions on BP? Do each of your members try to buy seeds at auction? We are reaching a very limited audience. We as club members need to get the word out about seed auctions to those who are not using BP. Increase the number of participants and naturally the price of seeds should increase. Maybe if we could get EVERY SINGLE GROWER to buy at least one seed at an auction this winter the prices would increase. And I do mean every grower.

11/8/2011 4:30:30 PM

Minnesota

Calcubit, Wow.. I too was confused and read Joe's original email 3 times while sitting in the woods this weekend.. After reading 145 posts and feeling tension building I was just starting to wonder exactly what "Groups" these were that have created the need for a Seed Fundraising Code of Ethics.. I googled Jane's Butterfly club.. Nothing there.. OAF.. No way it is the OAF. What group/ Groups have brought us to this point? Are there one or more groups that need to be pointed out to end this speculation?

11/8/2011 4:44:59 PM

Bristol R.I. USA

@ Chris, I respect you so please don't say i'm posting things for the bandwagon. Anyway thats what it appears you're saying regarding reading your last post, the second paragraph. I do have a mind of my own please don't offend me in that manner. I'm done commenting on this as it has gotten old. You have your opinion and I have mine. What teaction did you think you'd get concerning this topic? Anyway "health and long life to you" i'm out.

11/8/2011 4:53:19 PM

Cheshire,Ma

The Wallace's generosity (and many others) has been a big reason for the growth of the pumpkin community. The reason has been giving out seeds.This has allowed many people to grow without spending hundreds of dollars for the same seed. This allowed for so many great crosses we see today. But it also built loyality and a willingness to support the SNGPG. I completly understand that money is required to run a weighoff. But there are other needs today for money and that is the cost to actually grow pumpkins.Soil tests tissue tests,insecticides,and the list goes on and on. So with so many great crosses available does a grower spend $100 on a seed or $100 for growing supplies. Not trying to nail a club for trying to raise funds but there are other reasons money for seeds isn't where they may like it.

11/8/2011 5:00:37 PM

Ohio

Very compelling thread. One thing that I hope we stand together on is that as a community we can voice our opinions freely and that they will be heard with respect for one another.
After reading the original letter numerous times I see no attack on my free choice or charitable giving. My take is that there is a concern for general club operations with respect to funding the club or weigh off from year to year. One of the things I have always loved about pap is his love for kids. I believe that the OAF is deeply imbedded within him with his pumpkin growing. Thus for me it is very tuff to separate the two, and as far as I am concerned they are one in the same. As far as charitable contributions in general I believe that there is a time and place for them.
I recall during this past season there were several instances that a financial need arose within the growing community. No auction was held, a simple request for funds were asked for and I was happy to write a check for them. The growing community came though like champs and the needs were met. It made me very proud to be a part of this hobby. The generosity of people will stun you sometimes. I have personally seen instances when there would be a major need for funds for particular situations. That instead of buying Christmas gifts for their own family those families would just give up their funds to deal with someone’s medical or financial needs. Makes you think again if you really need that new TV or take that expensive vacation.

11/8/2011 5:15:27 PM

Ohio

con't
Dealing with kids and their needs has also been a big part of my life; giving countless hours to a children’s organization here. And have had the privilege to be the head coordinator for one of the facets of the organization for many years at the state level. Dealing with the kids’ one on one, organizing events and fund raising. Yet, did not feel the need to have a seed auction to try to raise money. You may find that making a request for funds within your circle of influence will usually accomplish the goals or needs that you are looking for. Using this method rather than using a couple of fist full of seeds would be more beneficial in the long haul as you build a base of contributors.
Some club’s entire year’s budget comes solely from its annual auction. This letter to me is showing concern for the clubs trying to keep the head above the water so to speak; so the fundraising process for many of the clubs does not become more difficult for them. Finding alternative methods to raise funds for a pumpkin club is very difficult. Sponsors are one thing, like pulling teeth; fund raising dinners, good luck, etc. etc. It really does come down the seed auctions and club seed sales for the most part to keep things going. In this ever growing hobby there is always room to help others though the community itself. We need to stand strong together as a family and help and encourage each other openly when needed if at all possible. I believe this is a letter that simply expresses concerns of an evolution that is taking place with seeds that may ultimately inadvertently harm the growth aspect of some clubs. So that we as growers will take a step back and look at the whole picture to see what is benefiting what, for the growth and vitality of each club or weight off.

11/8/2011 5:16:26 PM

Ohio

con't
What would be great to see are a couple of new threads. One dealing with fundraising “ideas” for clubs and weigh offs and another with fundraising ideas for general charity situations. On the club end of this, it would be very interesting to hear of successful fundraising practices that clubs and groups have done to generate operating revenues. This could be a great help to clubs in general in giving some direction in fund raising.
Have a good one as always, Dave Rumancik, Director OVGPG

11/8/2011 5:16:49 PM

North Smithfield, RI

A few cents worth here . I understand the clubs need to raise money but most of us can't afford to pay $ 300 or more for one seed which could fail . Maybe 5 grand is too high a number for 1st place . And the market for seeds like the rest of the economy can fluctuate. But most of the heavy hitters work their butt off for this sport. So who's right and whose wrong ? As for charities the OAF is an excellent and legitimat undertaking. The rest who knows ?

11/8/2011 6:40:59 PM

Georgetown, Ontario

I have a feeling this whole thing is going to back-fire. Clearly the majority of people posting on here have a bad feeling about this. If people are feeling manipulated or taken advantage of it may end up turning off a lot of people and everyone could see the seed prices drop even further. If I was a new-comer to this hobby and was reading all these posts I would walk away with the feeling that I was being looked at as someone the "higher-ups" want to squeeze every penny out of. When people start feeling like prices are being fixed, seed numbers are being manipulated or even kept secret that just leaves a bad feeling inside, and bad feeling don't make any organization prosper. Every club has rediculously low membership fees for what you get. If every club doubled their fees I doubt they would have less members and they would have a heck of a lot more money and you wouldn't have 150 posts from people that just don't feel good about the whole situation.

11/8/2011 8:21:19 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

What was the wise statement about the love of money? ;-)

Well, against my better judgement, I feel compelled to throw my two cents in.

You will never solve this by manipulating the supply side. Never. You could get rid of all the charitable auctions and it might mean another $20 to each club. Why? People who bid in auctions are there because they have disposable cash and they want to help the clubs. Period. So, this is a demand side problem. What you need is more bidders who have that inclination. The problem you see now is that the economy is tanked for three years in a row and even your big spenders are feeling the pinch. The solution to a problem starts with identifying the real problem.

This problem has a simple solution. Go on a budget. Cut the prize money. Keep it simple. If I were in this to win prize money, I'd have left long ago.

11/8/2011 8:43:51 PM

I think it is a poorly written letter.
I am not responding in support of it either. I have never bought a seed at auction or grown a seed bought at auction (as Matt can tell you, I refuse to grow a seed he's paid for no mater how hard he tries to talk me into it). I am a single parent and teacher in the lowest paid teacher state in the US...but I live within my means...which means I grow within my means.
The letter could have simply stated:
"The following leaders of pumpkin growing clubs would like to ask that auction participants consider putting club auctions before others in an effort to support the furthering of our hobby and education of fellow and potential growers. It is getting more difficult to raise funds, and as leaders of clubs we would like to draw attention to that fact."
Then the supporters listed.
Too many words used lead to too many interpretations possible.
Further, trying to bring this site or GPC into making a "code of ethics" is not a fair spot to put them in.

11/8/2011 9:38:32 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

All the above can be looked at as healthly banter and free speech.....all good for the soul.....

My belief is

At the end of the day, we all shake hands and come out growing…..

11/9/2011 9:18:49 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=148200

This is what it is all about.Great MEMORIES !!! I know of a grower(1300lb pb) who was recently refused a certain seed until after the auctions.Not everyone can afford to pay top dollar at an auction and if the price of a decent seed gets out of control along with the cost of growing supplies I think the hobby is going to suffer. Lowering the prize money is a good start.

11/9/2011 3:42:35 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

just as a foot note...this fundraiser made $1800 in 5 hours for Safe Grad ...pretty impressive ...

11/9/2011 3:50:20 PM

Sourthern Utah

here's the short and simple from me.. i grow fer the love and fun of growing,,, in this sport,,, sounds like alot of folks are after the big bucks and prestige,, well thats all good and bad,, we as a community, need to hold together as 1,, but its not like that,, my WO is better than ours,, HA, if more funds are need adapt,, to your community.. bring in the extra fund,, dont shut out the average , joes that peruse the auctions fer a change at a great seed, low seed counts happen,, but dont tread on us

11/9/2011 7:56:30 PM

Onawa,Iowa

For 2012 Halloween
Give the kids candy & two pumpkin seeds!

11/9/2011 11:16:18 PM

huntsburg,ohio

signing on Jerry Rose OVGPG Director

11/10/2011 8:26:38 PM

Lexington,IN

Man, you AG growers get crazier every year. You say it's not about the money, well, it sure does appear that way. You don't want auctions for other organizations so the "pumpkin" auctions can get higher prices. That's the bottom line, some just worded it differently. Of those that have "signed up" for the fiasco at least one donated to my Little League auction last year, (and your donation was greatly appreciated) and one was selling seeds on ebay several years ago, FAKE seeds if I remember correctly. The problem is not with the hand full of AG seeds me or any other non-pumpkin orgs. were generously given, but the fact is MOST people can't afford to bid with the economy tanking. Auction revenues will be lower this year than last, I'll bet ya. How would you run your club WITHOUT auctions? That's what needs to be figured out...

11/11/2011 2:41:07 PM

Eighty Four,PA

I support our leaders. This is the GPC, Hall of Famers, Directors, and the OVGPG. I donated seeds to paps coats for kids this year and the past 2years too. I donate to other charities in my local community and usually donate to the American Red Cross, Easter Seals, and Make A wish, youth sport teams and conservation groups(Trout Unlimited and NWTF). Anyone can donate to any cause but I feel that our pumpkin auctions are for raising money for prize money for weigh-offs. If you need money, learn how to grow a big pumpkin and win a weigh-off and donate your money. Remember the Hallmark story. The pumpkin community as most corporations chose one charity to donate to and support this year in and out. The pumpkin community does not need to put extra charities on BP.com and keep Ken, Venari, and others up late at night plus them putting in extra hours they don't get paid for. As a club, they can chose a charity or more to raise money on a local scale. The GPC can chose a charity on a larger scale. And you as a grower you can do what you want, but keep in mind it is for charity and has the charity been set up as a non profit? Trust me, follow our leaders, they care about alot of things but we as a pumpkin community need one charity on a large scale, clubs have their own if they want, and you donate to any charity you want. BP.com can be used for threads but auctions take away from other peoples quality time. If this has offended anyone I apoligize but this is my own opinion and I respect all the other posts too.

11/13/2011 9:07:55 AM

Eighty Four,PA

As for seed count and driving up auction prices, maybe growers should have a section on aggc.org how many seeds the pumpkin had inside. Any bidder in a auction needs to know the as much info he/she can before bidding. There are a lot of great genetics out there that growers can get for a fair price or free. It is all relavant to the individual grower. You want a 1800lb seed, do what you need to do to get it, but keep in mind, that means reaching deep into your pocket or knowing a world record grower who might give you a seed but this is rare. I paid $350 last year for a 1161 Rodonis and it got damaged in a wind storm. I could of prevented it but predicting mother nature is tough lesson. NOT all top seeds produce too. Proven seeds are a good to buy or get your hands on. I pride myself and grow my seed in 1 patch every year. I like dealing with growers so I know I am getting their seed. You do what you do to get your seed. Growing a WR is another thing. This is why I support our leaders. They know how to grow, I take their advice, it is great advice, and I feel they will guide us. They have done an absolutely great job so far!

11/13/2011 9:32:32 AM