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Ray, North Dakota

I left this same question under the fertilizer thread, but I don't think anyone visits that thread, everyone comes here. So here is my question, is a fish/seaweed fertilizer ABSOLUTELY necessary, or can I still get a big beast with other foliar fertilizers? The reason I ask is that my pH is a very basic 7.9, and I don't want to add any sea salt to my soil if I do not have to. Has anyone grown an 800 pound pumpkin without fish/seaweed? Craig "herbie"

2/16/2006 9:43:40 AM

Utah

You will get different answers depending on who you ask...
I've grown a few 900+ fruit and I don't use seaweed but I do use fish every now and then. I don't think that either are absolutely necessary. I don't think foliar fertilizing is absolutely necessary.

Typically in seaweed fert the salt has been removed.

2/16/2006 11:06:14 AM

Colorado

Herbie, I had a very late pollinated plant that I planted in a raised concrete planter at work. Bad soil, terrible heat. Only used Neptune’s fish and seaweed as a foliar and drench. Plant grew a 100 lber and still had perfect new green growth and survived a couple of mild frosts. Finally died after a hard freeze on November 15th. Not bad for Colorado. I’m sold on the stuff.

2/16/2006 11:25:39 AM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

With all the studies, scientific proof and proven results, why would you not use fish/seaweed in your overall program?

If you don't want to foliar feed..then don't. At least incorporate some into your watering program.

2/16/2006 11:46:41 AM

Ray, North Dakota

What are the scientific studies, and where can I view them?

2/16/2006 1:09:34 PM

Syracuse, NY

probably on the Neptune's Harvest website, but i do not know the address---you could type-in the name into your
search window and i am sure it will come up and a bunch of others>>>>>>>you should be MORE concerned with your high pH.
other elements in the soil become bound-up and can not be utilized by the plants if the pH is noticeably above or below 7.0, which is near-perfect for growing giant pumpkins.
i forget the rate, but you need to incorporate (till-in)some ELEMENTAL SULPHUR (farm or garden supply) to bring your pH down one whole point---
it is cheap and easy, and now is the time to do it so the soil has time to balance out. do not be cheap...soil is half your pumpkin plants' success. eric

2/16/2006 1:45:39 PM

Syracuse, NY

and yes, you do need to use seaweed in your
regimen..foliarly once a week...it helps to prevent or inhibit powdery mildew (PM), and PM you do not want.

2/16/2006 1:47:38 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Craig, a quick google search reveals alot;

http://www.casoils.com/kelp_studies.html

http://www.lightparty.com/Health/HealingRegeneration/html/RemineralizationOfTheSoil.html

http://attra.ncat.org/ (great website)

http://www.dramm.com/html/main.isx?sub=32&presssearch=25

http://www.omri.org/

That will get you started/Glenn

2/16/2006 2:32:14 PM

Ray, North Dakota

I have already talked to my agronomist here at work and I am going to start a three year sulpher amendment on my garden to lower the pH. We have 90% sulpher pellets, but the current rate for my garden would be around 160 lbs. Too much all at once. Don't want my veggies tasting like sulpher.

2/16/2006 2:47:27 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

Fish and/or seaweed won't add salts to your soil. This is the
good stuff, this is what you need.

There are other things that can add salt, especially chemical
fertilizers, which you should avoid.

2/16/2006 5:25:07 PM

New Hampshire

I think kelp and/or seedweed is a must

2/16/2006 5:44:55 PM

New Hampshire

seaweed

2/16/2006 5:45:31 PM

Syracuse, NY

lol!

2/16/2006 7:45:17 PM

Norton, MA

Will you be tasting your AG's? That'd scare the heck out of me! I believe what you need has already been said here. Neptunes (though it's been great to me) is a pricey one. There are alot of other options for virtually the same product if cost is a factor. AleX Noel.

2/16/2006 9:19:34 PM

New Hampshire

I use Stress-X From North Country Organics- Lot cheeper

2/16/2006 9:46:02 PM

Ray, North Dakota

No, I don't plan on eating my pumpkins, but I do plan on eating the other vegetables! The sulpher 90 I plan to put down gives me 60% the first year, so over 2-3 years I can get my pH manageble. Also, I grew some Big Max last year in this high pH ground, and got a 77lb and a 55lb, so I wonder how pH really effects the large varieties? I am also going to use some urea (46-0-0) and some 11-52-0 based on my soil test, so I am using commercial non-organic material in my soil. Also, what are the cheaper alternatives to Neptunes?

2/17/2006 9:42:10 AM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Herbie why not go with something more garden friendly to lower that ph. Peat Moss, Soybean Straw, seems like alot of sulphur to me..When an increase in organic matter would bring it down...

2/17/2006 11:49:25 AM

Ray, North Dakota

I added lots of grass clippings, and lots of 15 year old manure. Organic material is not a problem, and the dirt looks wonderful. It is just that this area of the world has high Calcium Carbonate in the soil, and if you want to bring the pH down, you have to do it drastically. I am still not sure if I want to hit it real hard even over a three year amendment, but if high pH will not throw a big fruit, I need to do something. But again, with my Big Max variety that I was very pleased with, one 77lber is not bad for that variety, so I wonder how big a role pH plays, especially if I can fertilize my garden with commercial fertilizer. Plant nutrients will not be a problem.

2/17/2006 12:13:40 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Herbie a high PH ties up the uptake of the nutrients..At 7.0 Nuetral things seem to be most effective in uptake. We have the opposite soil here...5.9 which most farmers around here are happy with..The AG Ext guy just shakes his head when you explain where you would like things.

2/17/2006 1:11:41 PM

Ray, North Dakota

Ag ext guy?

2/17/2006 1:27:28 PM

Ray, North Dakota

Also, I know what pH does to soil nutrients, I am in the agriculture business, so that isn't an issue. I just want to amend my soil pH over say a three year period to get it down around neutral, like Linus said.

2/17/2006 1:29:07 PM

Syracuse, NY

is it going to stay down once you get it down there?
i don't think your soil is gonna scream and squirt blood
if you amend the soil with sulphur to bring it down one point. as far as i know, the rate is really small, like
a pound or two per 1K square feet. maybe. i know my soil was up by almost a whole point in '02 i think;
i added the right amount of elemental sulphur and
did not check it after that, 'cause i had done what i needed to....
my plants grew just lovely. i think i had more pumpkins that year than i can remember, but that was just good luck. baby steps may be the weigh to go, but where is your pH gonna be in a month or two when your plants are growing?
i won't spout-off about it any more>>i wish you good luck!EG

2/17/2006 4:20:28 PM

Ray, North Dakota

Maybe I need to go in with ammonium sulphate (21-0-0-24) instead of the straight sulpher to get my nitrogen and sulpher. The sulpher that will break down will free up my available nutrients and help my growth. I checked my soil test again, and I have a very good level of phosphates already in the soil, but like everyone knows, they aren't readily available because of the carbonates. Yep, i'll have our agronomist go looking more for the benefits of the AMS over the Sulpher 90.

2/17/2006 7:42:03 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Organics....Herbie...Organics

2/17/2006 11:33:38 PM

Norton, MA

Neptunes alternatives, google these:
Drammatic
North American Kelp
many others, also independant companies that sell Neptunes help the $$ a little. AleX Noel.

2/18/2006 12:36:42 PM

Ray, North Dakota

Organics, sheesh. I sell commercial fertilizer, and have thousands of tons at my disposal. I can't go organic, I'm a modern agriculture representative. For you guys that stick to organic, you have my respect for the extra mile you may have to go to see results.

2/18/2006 4:36:36 PM

Ray, North Dakota

Oh crap, I forgot. I purchased the Miracle grow automatic feeder that you can hook up to your garden sprinkler. It claims to put out 50 gallons of solution in 15 minutes. My question is, how much water will three plants take when I do water them? Also, I have read that once a week or week and a half is when the foliar drench is best?

2/18/2006 4:37:59 PM