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Subject:  Germinating old orange

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Green Toe

Ontario

I really want to try to grow an orange kin I have a 923 and a 811 Gerhardt and I don't want to screw them up I haven't had very good luck germinating old seeds so in am asking all you old veterans for your best advise

1/25/2019 6:20:51 PM

Dustin

Morgantown, WV

I'm interested too, I have a 993 and 1059 in my box. Supposedly Matt Winey has a trick... hopefully he'll chime in?

1/25/2019 10:11:39 PM

jlindley

NE Arkansas

I have a 993 and 923 so I'm watching too

1/25/2019 10:57:16 PM

OLD-ROOKIE

NILES , CALIF

I had my last 3 1059 seeds. I tried to germinatate all 3 ,only one popped up,but I notice the one that did had no vigor very slow growing , I was able to get a self pumpkin out of it.
Good luck don't wait too long.

1/26/2019 7:29:32 AM

matt-man

Rapid City, SD

i just file.....wrap in small piece of paper towel....soak in 85 degree water for 4 to 6 hours.....put in warmed soil on propagation map at 88 degrees...older seeds take a couple days more to germ...

1/26/2019 10:00:05 AM

26 West

Swamp Hoggers Paradise

I am hopeful too. I have old squash. 628* Angus Bruce 96 (534 Saunders x self), 786* Mac kenzie 08 848* Mackenzie x 1053.5 Werner06, and a 848* Mackenzie o4, that I won on here. I think warmer temps and drier to prevent rot will help germinate. Help is appreciated. Jim

1/26/2019 10:03:17 AM

26 West

Swamp Hoggers Paradise

I apologize wrong board Jim

1/26/2019 10:06:12 AM

Glenoma Kins

Southwest WA

They will lack vigor compared to the newest seeds. I was considering not only soaking the seed, but to also moisten the potting mix or paper towel with a low concentration H2O2 solution. The idea is to artificially boost the oxygen level and hence increase the initial metabolism as much as possible. In nature, seed germination is affected by light, temperature, moisture, and oxygen, and abrasion. ...There are probably chemical triggers from nutrients in the soil, also.

1/26/2019 11:39:24 AM

Glenoma Kins

Southwest WA

85 and cover the soil mix to keep it humid for about four days then uncover and let it begin to dry out. The squeeze test where you get the mix as wet as it can get without being able to squeeze water out, works. Assist the seed if it has not popped on it’s own in 7 days... carefully remove the seed coat and position the coyledons halfway up as though it was sprouting on its own. If rot has started rinse with h202.

Not an old timer but... I’ve played around quite a bit, so I want to share where I’m at.

1/26/2019 11:49:20 AM

PG

Ct

"They will lack vigor compared to the newest seeds"

So does this mean older seed produce a plant that does not grow well or fast? What about the pumpkin?

PG

1/26/2019 11:52:49 AM

pumpkinpal2

Syracuse, NY

NO. Any lack of vigor is evident in the sprouting and becoming-upright stage---after that, all is well. you know, like any of us, or, me, waking up, lol---eg

1/26/2019 1:00:24 PM

OLD-ROOKIE

NILES , CALIF

For me that 1059 that I grew, was slow growing plus my vines weren't as big and thick like my other plants,the pumpkin was right around 400lbs, it was a nice orange color
This 1059 seed is around 10 years old so its lost some of its youth. I tried out one of my self seeds it popped up right away.
This was my experience with my old seed .

1/26/2019 5:04:13 PM

Glenoma Kins

Southwest WA

The genetics will show up in a few weeks... they may be slower/smaller and take a week or two to catch up. But with good genetics they should still become good plants.

1/26/2019 5:55:08 PM

big moon

Bethlehem CT

Good analogy pumpkinpal2.

1/27/2019 9:58:28 AM

pumpkinpal2

Syracuse, NY

lol @ bm. also, O-R, think about this today - i had a glorious FIVE 772.2 Poiriers from George himself in '06, and i only had ONE of them that ever got in the patch because the 2nd and 3rd ones didn't LIVE and the 4th and 5th ones didn't sprout, by then in probably '08; the seeds from the fruit on the one that DID grow simply would not sprout either, even though we all/i test them in the fall after we/i get the seeds back, generally. after many tries over the years, i threw them out a few months ago.
SO, Y'ALL CHECK this out-->> the 1059 is 500 Northrup/772.2 Poirier/993.2 Vincent-McGill/1059.6 Vincent-McGill....all on the female sides of things...could there be a 'slow-growing, non-sprouting' characteristic that is being carried along with these particular pollinations?
hmmm..."along with the sunshine, there's gotta be a little rain, sometimes..." just something to think about. ---eg

1/27/2019 3:49:06 PM

Orangeneck (Team HAMMER)

Eastern Pennsylvania

I still have 100% success with the 811 germinating using a modification of the pill box method another grower posted on here a few years ago. The way I do it is take a large seven day pill box The kind people use to make sure they remember to take their medication every day. You can germinate seven seeds in each pill box at once. Sterilize the seed using alcohol first for about 90 seconds. Then soak the seeds in regular tapwater overnight. Put one seed in each compartment of the pillbox. Take a small Wad of paper towel get it wet and then ring it out so it is damp but not dripping. Place the damp paper towel on top of the seed in each compartment of the pillbox don’t smash it in there just put it on top of the seed. Close each compartment and then aim for a target temperature of 90°F. Are usually fluctuate from between 85° and 95°F it’s not an exact science i use a seed starting Mat. Use whatever heating method works best for you. I have extremely high germination rates Even with very old seeds. Hope this helps. Jim Gerhardt

1/27/2019 5:09:40 PM

Tom K

Massachusetts

Now if I only had 7 811's

1/27/2019 7:37:51 PM

Green Toe

Ontario

Thanks Jim that's great info and I will try that

1/27/2019 9:05:07 PM

pumpkinpal2

Syracuse, NY

I'll admit that a pill box is a little easier than my CD Spindle Method of even MORE years ago, which is why I also have...a pill box! I'll try this Gerhardt method in both methods and cross them, lol---I need a seed-starting mat, though...WHY did I not think of that at Christmas?!? errghhh...

1/27/2019 10:30:55 PM

Dustin

Morgantown, WV

Thanks everyone who has contributed. After seeing PP2's post about the 772, things started to make a bit more sense. Turns out, my beauty has her in the lineage... You ready for it?

My 982 from 2016, is 900 Gansert x 1148 Engel. It has the same characteristics that are being spoken about with the 993 and 1059. Not a very vigorous sprout, or vine, but a beautiful color on a well shaped pumpkin. The children, so far, have been true to the mother.

If you follow on pumpkin fanatic, which is absolutely wonderful for figuring these things out (THANK YOU PF Team!), you'll notice that there is a whole lot of the same genes stacked up over multiple generations. Bear with me here...

900 Gansert (Mother plant) was 359 Foss x 993 VM. 993 (grandfather of 982) was 772 Poirier x 998.6 Pukos. 359 Foss was 1048 Engel x 2009 Wallace (which goes back 3 generations to the 998.6). 1048 is 777 Young which was 993 x 1059, which is 772 x 998.6.

As I count, 6 generations of the 772 and 998.6 on the mother side of my 982 with two self crosses, and two generations of 772 and 998.6 in the father of the mother seed.

Father of the 982 is 1143 Engel, which is 359 x 1374. 1374 goes 359 x 1048 which is 777 selfed which is 993 x 1059, which is 772 x 998.6.

So, 6 generations on the mother side of the father seed with two self pollination again. 7 generations on the father side of the father seed, again with a couple self pollination.

I'm not very good at math, but I'd say the closest thing you can find to a 772 Poirier might just be my 982?

Can you find a seed closer?

1/28/2019 8:52:08 PM

Dustin

Morgantown, WV

Couple backcrosses there as well, be careful :)

1/28/2019 8:53:42 PM

agteacher

Princeville, IL

Dustin,
Totally different decade but have a 763.5 Poirier 09 that is the 772.2 x 868 Marsh. 868 was 772.2 x 919 Richards. This seed is 75% 772.2. Getting it to germinate could be very difficult. I have two of them so think I will give it a go using Jims pill box method. ( But not till season time because if they do germinate I want to plant them and see what they do).

1/28/2019 10:02:01 PM

Frank4

Rhode Island

I say abbynormal 681 is the closest to the 772
it got the Deep redish color perfect shape.

1/29/2019 8:24:24 AM

Smallmouth (Team Ozark)

Missouri

Side note since I see some 993 and 1059's being grown and worried about vigor. The majority of the plants I have had tolerate horrible heat and humidity while still producing a nice orange fruit were either the 1059 or had a lot of 1059/993 in them. None of them ever flagged like other unrelated plants grown right next to them once rooted. Mine were never the fastest growing, but were fast enough to get pollinated in June.

1/29/2019 10:49:05 AM

pumpkinpal2

Syracuse, NY

i've got me a 1046.5 Stevens I've meant for years to grow - maybe '19 is the year for it to be brought forth:

http://tools.pumpkinfanatic.com/fruitImages.php?PN=1046.5%20Stevens%202009

i can't wait!
i dunno how much closer to a seed than 'I have one!' or 'selfed' we could get, but that 982 is, yes, 'IT' when it comes to stop-in-your-tracks gorgeous---congratulations!

ORV---we'll get back to showing how to sprout Old Orange very soon!
ha ha---does my clock say 3:57 AM? jeez---later----eg

1/30/2019 4:00:46 AM

Total Posts: 25 Current Server Time: 9/23/2019 1:34:39 PM
 
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