Message Board - BigPumpkins.com

Nova Scotia

Not a tomato grower, however I just heard about some issues related to "official weights" and weighing procedures for tomatoes. Totally agree all entries should be weighed on independent legal business trade scales my opinion. Also yes choose wisely with any specimen (s) being entered officially for record purposes. Some of us have been fooled unfortunately leaving a heavier pumpkin, etc at home. Hopefully everything gets straightened out and made more clearer? Best wishes. Danny

9/2/2025 7:57:57 AM

C2k

Littlerock, WA

When the GPC early tomato rules were written, some time ago, I don't think anyone could have ever anticipated that one grower would break the world record multiple consecutive times in a single season. So, it stands to reason that in the excitement of all of those amazing tomatoes, one after another, each bigger than the last, they just got listed on the website since they were witnessed world records on certified scales. Once the dust settled, the committee had to decide what to do with all of the early tomato listings, and narrowed it down to the final, and largest of Dan Sutherland's top 5 per the rules. For anyone questioning the legitimacy of Dan's records, rest assured, multiple GPC representatives, and other qualified appointees witnessed the weighing on two different certified scales: one was his business scale, and another was a second business scale owned by another individual. Both were certified by the state of Washington, and current. Both scales read EXACTLY the same weight. The rules read that home scales, certified or not, are not allowed. However, these were business scales for Dan's and another's business endeavors. As a committee, we will be looking hard at the early tomato rules this winter, because while Dan used his business scale, the original intent of the rule may have been that people not use their own scales. The GPC committee will be clarifying this rule after some discussion at the conclusion of the season. We all must remember that the rules were written by volunteer GPC committee members, who aren't lawyers, and because of that, we find it necessary every year following the weighoffs to tighten the language, and add clarity.
-Cindy

9/2/2025 11:41:01 PM

Tenino, WA.

GPC rule> "Early entries MUST be weighed on a legal for trade scale certified by NTEP (national type evaluation program) such as a supermarket deli scale. The scale inspection tag must be current. There are no exceptions to this rule. Home scales are not considered within this contest, certified or not." The following rules in regards to using a NTEP certified scale. Conditions for using a legal-for-trade scale•Must be level. Scales are designed to measure force parallel to gravity. An uneven surface will cause inaccurate readings, •Affected by environmental factors. For legal-for-trade applications, the scale must be protected from external elements. Wind, sun, and moisture.
•Must be certified in its specific location. A legal-for-trade scale must be inspected and certified by a Weights and Measures official in its specific location and installation. If you move it to a new, uncertified spot, like a picnic table, its legal status is void until it is re-inspected.
•(Dan’s scale was tested inside in a controlled environment. He moved it outside and did not call for a scale certification check. Environmental rules for scales primarily focus on maintaining accuracy by minimizing external factors like temperature fluctuations, drafts, vibration, and static electricity, which affect weighing performance. Owners must ensure scales are on a solid, level surface, protected from direct sunlight, heating/cooling vents, and other air movements, and kept clean.
Any legal-for-trade scale certified by the National Type Evaluation Program (NTEP) must be re-calibrated by a licensed technician whenever it is moved. The new installation must also be inspected and approved by the local weights and measures authority before it can be used for commercial transaction. These scales were moved and not re-tested. Dan's scale was inspected inside and certified to that location. They were placed outside in an uncontrolled environment and not

[Last edit: 09/03/25 2:23:45 AM]

9/3/2025 2:09:40 AM

Tenino, WA.

Stop side stepping the GPC rules pick your tomatoes get in the car and take it/them to a certified legal for trade scale such as a supermarket deli scale. It's not hard to do just follow the rules. Never change the rules in the middle of the season change them after the season is over.

[Last edit: 09/03/25 2:28:05 AM]

9/3/2025 2:21:22 AM

Nova Scotia

Thanks for the updates. Ever since contests and weigh offs began rules were basically a few and simple so we thought? As with anything always "loose ends" and growers see a loophole or rule not as clear precise as it should be? Naturally over the years such as when the season is over, volunteer committees discuss any issues such as something that happened at a site or 2 address it the best they can and need to tighten up a certain rule here or there. The GPC sure has come a long way expanding throughout the World doing a tremendous job! Congrats. And I will be the first to
say, glad some have generously stepped forward and previously to continue running the GPC, because it is a big commitment and time to donate for all of us to enjoy!

[Last edit: 09/03/25 8:11:02 AM]

9/3/2025 8:06:57 AM

Nova Scotia

And one more thing, not sure what's in the air out in Washington state but definitely some Whoppers of tomatoes? Great job.

9/3/2025 8:20:05 AM

So the rules created by the gpc were not followed by the gpc. REALLY.
I totally agree with Jack .
To me Julie and dels tomato is still the current record holder.

[Last edit: 09/03/25 2:13:26 PM]

9/3/2025 12:00:29 PM

Tree Doctor

Mulino, Oregon

I would also add that if these tomatoes were so precious and important to Mr. Sutherland and the GPC, why were no GPC representatives available on site to witness the weighing and inspection of the tomatoes. While I understand a zoom call is convenient for everyone is not a legitimate method to actually inspect the fruit & the weighing. Stop changing the rules to fit the narrative.

9/3/2025 12:11:07 PM

KC Kevin

Mission Viejo, CA

Tomatogate!!! LOL

9/3/2025 12:17:51 PM

Grittyville, WA

The growers need to read the rules and try their best to follow them.

I do think the gpc should be allowed to make "emergency" changes to the rules but any changes that are made should then apply to everyone going forward & not just make a one time change for one grower? Yeah I thought Washington was the place to grow apples, what's with all the big tomatoes :)

As to the possibility of cheating, I look at my own experience. In my experience, I think I'm only getting a partial amount of the potential out of my plants. From what I have seen in my own garden I don't doubt that 14+ lbs is possible. Even my 10 lber struck me as a runty tomato. It looked half formed/half pollinated. No doubt much bigger ones are possible.

If I may add my personal insight here, tomatoes are more fickle than pumpkins, so its a struggle to convert pumpkin success into tomato success, but I don't think the grower in question is cheating... He is in fact just getting the results that are possible. It may be a dark tunnel but there's a light at the end of it!

[Last edit: 09/03/25 12:59:33 PM]

9/3/2025 12:28:15 PM

Nova Scotia

Ok think I am slowly getting the picture here as to what occurred? Thanks. However I checked the current results and those were amazing tomatoes produced by Mr. Sutherland! Let's hope this can get resolved and give credit where credit is due!

Ketchup exactly why I do not grow tomatoes lol.

9/3/2025 1:25:01 PM

Hey Danny This is just one of many things
I'm heading your way in the not too distant future. I for sure am coming to see you (long overdue)
we can do 2 or 32 beers and chat

9/3/2025 2:18:52 PM

Nova Scotia

Oh Lord have mercy lol. What's your definition of "not too distant"? Awesome Eddy yes been a looong time. Stay cool as always. Any 846 Calai seeds?

9/3/2025 2:47:24 PM

Tenino, WA.

I agree with Eddie, Del & Julie followed the GPC rules, their 11.65 should remain the GPC record tomato.

9/3/2025 2:59:40 PM

No 846's buddy sorry
Soon as I get out of the North West Territories I will have a better idea shooting for mid to late October

9/3/2025 3:26:35 PM

Nova Scotia

OK great man, just joking about the 846 of course. Be so great to see you as always friend! Unfortunately we went through worst drought in history since early June. However you may see the odd pumpkin kicking around.

Sorry growers about this between me and Eddy he caught me off guard as always on this thread.

9/3/2025 5:44:52 PM

Nova Scotia

OK Jack I certainly understand what you are saying regarding GPC rules and so forth pretty simple to me like other GPC sites over the many years. I am just hearing about all this lately. HOWEVER I can not wrap my head around about these amazing new WR tomatoes and something went a miss? Should I say. Thinking about the grower I guess. IDK Danny.

[Last edit: 09/03/25 5:57:28 PM]

9/3/2025 5:56:22 PM

Porkchop

Central NY

I lost an 18 pounder to ber. Oh well.

9/3/2025 10:35:45 PM

Tenino, WA.

Yes Danny I agree. Rules are in place to prevent problems like this. Both the grower and board created this problem. Friendships have been frayed. The GPC lost a good president and good man, others may follow him. It's a shame to see an outstanding season end like this.

9/4/2025 2:56:23 AM

Nova Scotia

Ouch I did not know it was that bad Jack? I did hear the President stepped down due to other reasons such as work. I am sure hopefully things will get resolved and settled. There will be amazing results come this Fall and another terrific season. Sometimes technology is moving way too fast for us to keep up with all the news. I am still old school like to keep things simple best I can, our pace of life here lol.

9/4/2025 7:35:32 AM

Nova Scotia

And trust me we had our fair share of "Rule issues" back in the day! I have certainly noticed how much more growers/weigh offs are spreading around the World. Major increases in weights and results. Definitely a huge job for those who oversee it all.

9/4/2025 8:09:09 AM

Westmoreland, KS

Okay I'm just going to echo Cindy here, I was on the zoom along with Cindy and Jack. I did not write the tomato rules and I am not a tomato expert. As I interpreted the rule these were two Business Scales not home scales. All of the amazing tomato's were weighed at home yes but on two certified NTEP scales. Also, if we tried to enforce all of the official NTEP rules which Jack posted 99% of all tomoto's weighed at weighoffs would be illegal. Jack, Cindy, or myself could have DQ'd the fruits if we saw something wrong happening on the zoom call that was not the case these are all very legit tomato's and monsters congrats to Dan and hopefully we all break his record one day!

9/4/2025 9:25:32 AM

Jake. Plain and simple. You did not follow your own rules. You broke them, the second the scales were moved they were uncertified and therefore not valid. And to top it off. It wasn’t unanimous by the gpc members.

9/4/2025 10:28:09 AM

Westmoreland, KS

Iceman that is Plain and simple if every scale used to weigh a tomato isn't moved. Like I said I'm no expert but that would require every weighoff site to have a NTEP certification being done at the weighoff.

9/4/2025 10:41:38 AM

Scales at stores, places of business are certified in place. Read your own rules and follow them. Don’t make excuses.

9/4/2025 10:48:43 AM

Westmoreland, KS

No excuse here I would certify another tomato today anywhere in the world if someone wants to weigh it with another NTEP certified scale at their house.

9/4/2025 10:52:55 AM

And you would be wrong again.

9/4/2025 11:05:37 AM

Tenino, WA.

Jake I tested and certified NTEP scales for 10 years with the department of Agriculture. When these scales were returned to their business location were they re-certified prior to selling products to the public? Intentionally ignoring National Type Evaluation Program (NTEP) requirements can lead to severe legal and financial penalties, including fines, business suspension, and device seizure. Since compliance is enforced at the state and local level, the exact consequences can vary depending on the jurisdiction. Beyond direct penalties, businesses that intentionally ignore NTEP requirements may also face other damaging repercussions: Intentionally ignoring National Type Evaluation Program (NTEP) requirements can lead to severe legal and financial penalties for businesses. A nonprofit organization that knowingly allows or facilitates a business's noncompliance can face serious liability, including fines, loss of tax-exempt status, and potential criminal charges for its directors. So that is the way it is going to be the GPC will continue to ignore its own rules and the federal laws.

9/4/2025 12:02:41 PM

Grittyville, WA

I think the original idea is that a certified scale at someone's private residence could be tampered with, post certification.

It would be much harder to do this at a supermarket, post office, or any other scale used by a business for their daily business. The issue isnt whether Dan was cheating. The issue is that it sets a precedent for the future. I know the gpc members are using their best judgement (and this is what happens at the weigh offs, too). Anyhow, its just a silly mishap. No need to be to hard on anyone. But its a good one to learn from!

9/4/2025 12:08:36 PM

Westmoreland, KS

Jack I don't really care we aren't in the business of scale certification you had an opportunity on the call to not certify the world record. We both looked at the scales verified the certification and called it a good record. Period done deal you can't come back weeks later saying it's not legit.

9/4/2025 12:10:27 PM

Grittyville, WA

I'd say admit the mistake and move foward. If the Fausts or anyone with a larger tomato than the Faust's wants to raise an issue they could. What a dustup and what a pickle... I hope I'm not making it any worse.

9/4/2025 12:28:18 PM

Jake. You broke your own rules. Explain to me why you get the authority to do that? That is a very poor representation of a gpc rep

9/4/2025 12:30:56 PM

Westmoreland, KS

Iceman show me what rule I broke. I'm free for any phone call anytime. If you don't like how I interpreted the rule that is your problem not mine.

9/4/2025 12:36:40 PM

Grittyville, WA

Its a silly mishap, Eddy. Anyone could overlook or misinterpret a rule it probably happens all the time.
But, I do believe you are correct. Well, if the Faust's want to raise a challenge they could but it should really be up to the Fausts at this point. My own opinion as a tomato grower. For whatever that matters.

9/4/2025 12:50:50 PM

Jack has already posted the rules. Don’t need to repeat what’s already there.

9/4/2025 12:51:44 PM

Westmoreland, KS

Jack added to the rule

9/4/2025 12:54:20 PM

Grittyville, WA

Jake, Im trying to see both sides. And Jack is ultimately correct on this.

9/4/2025 1:13:11 PM

Westmoreland, KS

He could very well be but like I said if he felt so strongly about it Jack had every opportunity to disqualify the fruit on the zoom call but instead we made sure each scale had the proper NTEP certification they did and like Cindy said all of the tomato's were weighed on both scales and they were exactly they same weight on each scale.

9/4/2025 1:20:46 PM

Grittyville, WA

Jake, I'm sure everyone trusts and understands that there were no misintentions on your part.

9/4/2025 1:21:46 PM

Westmoreland, KS

Thank you there was not and there wasn't any missintentions on anyone's part including Dan as far as I'm concerned. We could have requested Dan to run it to a store scale if we felt like something was off. Everything was perfectly legit and that is just the way it is. If people don't like that I can't help them it is what it is.

9/4/2025 1:27:34 PM

Spudley (Scott)

Alaska

Backyard one man shows with so called experts have always been a less than reliable way of doing it. There are plenty of certified shows to enter your whatever. Enter a show where a certified scale and judges are used. Put it on display for the public and your competitors to see and scrutinize. Far less chance of someone cheating or good people just getting it wrong. It took me 2 years to get my turnip world record restored and recently someone claimed a new WR potato only to find out it was a gourd tuber/root. Just saying once a mistake is made it's hard to correct.

[Last edit: 09/04/25 1:59:28 PM]

9/4/2025 1:57:31 PM

Grittyville, WA

Well there are probably times when there should be exceptions to the rules. I wanted to stay out of this discussion because I'm not privy to whether this was one of those times. But I'd say if it was possible to weigh it at a store, that would have been better. In hindsight. Just my unimformed opinion. For the reasons that were raised here, all retrospectively. There's a lot to learn, sometimes a lot to admit we don't know.

[Last edit: 09/04/25 2:11:40 PM]

9/4/2025 2:07:04 PM

Nova Scotia

So unfortunate how this sideways. Lot of valid points and observations made here. Really feel bad for everyone as there were no "hidden intentions" far as I can gather? Dan grew amazing blockbuster tomatoes and can't take that from him.

HOWEVER the concern is why not simply take them elsewhere like everyone else has to do to abide the rules? Perhaps there is a valid reason IDK.

So could Guinness accept it as a new WR? I haven't been involved with Guinness for many years. Where it stands right now sounds right now Faust still record holder. Could Dan's be listed in GPC with a *? Just thoughts trying to help out.

9/4/2025 2:22:19 PM

Farmer Brown (Chris Brown)

I sent in a request to Guinness about this. The response was, they will review it and make a determination if it warrants further action. Apparently there are a few inquires logged already. Will see

9/4/2025 2:37:55 PM

Andy W

Western NY

Well, whenever there's this many replies in a thread during a slow time it's bound to be a mess!

A bit of background: back in the day when we started the "Early Tomatoes" it was capped at three entries, as we didn't want to be inundated with entries that were not noteworthy. In respect to our time (either myself or John Vincent) in reviewing and entering the data, that's where we decided to cut it off. It appears that as recently as two years ago there were 5+ tomatoes from a single grower entered in the early category, so there seems to be some flexibility with the guideline. I'd say that those tomatoes, as well as anything over 10 pounds is certainly noteworthy enough to be listed if the other criteria are met.

I do not know of any regulations that void a small scale's certifications simply due to being unplugged and moved to a new location, I'm sure that happens all the time and I've seen it at weighoffs. The main issue there would be with an outdoors weighing, but if it read a stable weight then (scientifically) there shouldn't be a problem. Any wind interference I've seen on scales gave a lower weight.

I suppose you could pretend the tomatoes don't exist, for the reasons above, but then you're in the situation of the 884 Black pumpkin of 30+ years ago.

Can't wait to see the video.

9/4/2025 2:47:05 PM

Spudley (Scott)

Alaska

Guinness once told me they rely a lot on folks on the ground to get it right. However every now and then they just rubber stamp something without applying their own Golden Rule Primarily grown for human consumption Example Diakon radish, is primarily grown for the root, not the foliage so foliage should not be allowed. But it was. Same goes for the cauliflower WR. So it is very important to get it right at the local level. Because honestly, sometimes I think Guinness is more concerned about selling a book than the accuracy of their claims.

9/4/2025 3:08:44 PM

VTJohn

Jericho Vermont

After directing a State economic development program for years and having legislative statutory language that had to be followed I can understand the frustration of some growers that there was an exception given (no store based scale) or the verifiers came up with a game day decision to accept what Dan Sutherland offered as a replacement for the store based scale.

Understanding that the GPC volunteer committee does not have the budget or time to travel across the world to verify and went with the next best option to convene a web based zoom type meeting.

I believe the only viable complaint here is that the GPC verifiers should have not given Dan an option to weigh at home and I am sure there are regrets now from some of the committee as well as Dan himself because this scrutiny over legitimacy would not be an issue with the store based scale.

I don't know how this will all sugar out but I feel bad for all involved and truly believe these were all world record specimens.

[Last edit: 09/04/25 3:24:13 PM]

9/4/2025 3:20:09 PM

Zimmerman, Minnesota

I’ll just put this note in. I was the person who got the certified scale and brought it to Stillwater for the weigh in of the 11.65 pound tomato grown by Del and Julie, this scale was certified nearly a year before and was moved at least 4-5 times with different things being weighed. It was weighed on a plastic table the day of the event. Very few scales are certified on site and if you start to take a look at each and every GPC site, I would say the vast majority probably 90% are renting scales that are already certified thus they are moving them. So if your argument is, the scale was moved and is not correct do we take away Del and Julie’s world record because the scale was moved? What tomato should we go back to and make officially the GPC record? Because based on a few people‘s arguments above, it’s definitely not the 11.65 pounder.

9/4/2025 3:22:39 PM

Nova Scotia

Oh Andy good one BINGO guess that's where I was heading. However Don's amazing new WR 884 pumpkin simply DQ by Guinness due to other interference and tarp was on the scale at the time even though scale rep tech tared it! Other weigh offs were still practicing that method too in early days as all were basically man handled onto the scale. With increase size of weights came lifting rings and fine tuning the rules such as this tomato issue. Yet like I said earlier give credit where credit is due to the GROWER as to what they accomplished!

9/4/2025 3:30:25 PM

Nova Scotia

Maybe for the future all tomatoes have to be officially entered at a GPC site like everything else? Just plant them later schedule etc.

9/4/2025 3:33:00 PM

Spudley (Scott)

Alaska

The Alaska State Fair uses the Alaska weights and measures division within the state government. They come out set up their scales re-certify them using certified weights that they bring with them before anything gets officially weighed. All 50 states adhear to the NIST weights and measures rules and guidelines. It's not that hard to do. It's an easy problem to fix. Just need to get everybody rowing in the same direction. Lol.

[Last edit: 09/04/25 4:37:30 PM]

9/4/2025 3:44:07 PM

Ken D.

Connecticut, USA

If you think this is fun, just wait until a new WR pumpkin gets weighed in Russia!!

9/4/2025 4:58:18 PM

Grittyville, WA

Lol. What a Sputnik moment that will be! Sputkin?!

9/4/2025 5:47:25 PM

Nova Scotia

HAHAHA Ken too funny. Maybe a melon too? They are part of the World last time I checked. All good you just look after that nice orange special you have going.

9/4/2025 5:51:03 PM

Tenino, WA.

Hi Chris good points. The statement that got this mess started was "they were witnessed world records on CERTIFIED SCALES". The scales model has to be NTEP approved to be certified as legal for trade, the scales in question were at one time tested and certified I agree. But when a certified scale is move it is no longer certified. It must be inspected in it's new location. Just my opinion as to why the GPC does not require that every scale at every weigh-off be certified on site. First is because of time, extra expense to the clubs, site owner or scale owner, second how would this be applied and monitored world wide? Again just an opinion, At the weigh-offs (most) there is just one scale. Every entry is weighed on the same scale so the placing at every event will be correct. If the scale is off a pound or two for you it should be off a pound or two for me. Another good point Chris you mentioned world records. In the case of a new world record at a site maybe a certified scale specialist should be called in to check test the scale to verify that it is indeed a new world record. If we need to go back to what is the world record tomato? It might be Dan's 9.44 it was weighed and verified as a new world record. My wife and I drove over 600 miles round trip to inspect it and witness it. His 9.44 was weighed on a deli scale at a local store in Dan's home town.
As I understand it maybe I am wrong part of the GPC boards mission as a regulator body is to provide a level playing field for everyone, no exceptions. I have 20 years of tomato entries recorded for the GPC. Over 5000 tomatoes entered by over 1000 growers all entered under the same rules. Please keep the field level for everyone.

[Last edit: 09/04/25 6:24:53 PM]

9/4/2025 6:20:28 PM

Westmoreland, KS

Jack, you’re trying to make this way more complicated than what it is. Yes or no did you disqualify the tomato when you were on the zoom?

9/4/2025 7:23:26 PM

Tenino, WA.

9/4/2025 8:36:39 PM

Mccaslinnsw

Hawesville, ky

So Jack you are admitting that you had the opportunity to speak up as not only a scale expert but also a tomato expert while on the live zoom call with Dan while he was weighing all of these world record fruits? You had multiple opportunities to stop this because of the many reasons you have stated above, but instead you remain silent and approve of the weighing of his fruits. Then weeks later decide to speak up?

9/4/2025 8:44:21 PM

Westmoreland, KS

OK, thank you for admitting that you didn’t disqualify it so we are in the same boat. We both approved the weighing of the fruit.

9/4/2025 8:55:08 PM

Green Bay, Glen

Kaukauna, Wisconsin

I just hope Dan comes to Salt Lake. All us tomato would love to hear how he smashed the world record several times over.
The GPC needs to have him as a speaker.

9/4/2025 10:12:46 PM

Don’t put this on Jack. The gpc screwed up by not following their own rules. It’s that simple.

9/4/2025 10:48:28 PM

Tenino, WA.

Hi Nick I did not wait weeks to bring this to the board. After the weighing finished I got on the GPC web site and yes the no home scale rule was/is still there. I called the GPC president about the rule the following morning. We both got on the GPC web site and agreed that the rule was still there.

9/5/2025 12:38:46 AM

Tenino, WA.

Thanks Eddy

9/5/2025 12:40:23 AM

Nova Scotia

Well at the end of the day it was good I suppose that this tomato rule was brought up for discussion and addressed. It certainly helped me as a GPC weigh off host to understand this much better and perhaps others too to avoid any future problems. Cheers! Danny

9/5/2025 8:04:09 AM