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Upper Strasburg, PA

Let’s go with a $20 buy in. 10 year minimum seed age- this means the seed selection must be pre-2009 (pre-1725 Harp). Start as many seeds as you want. If you win the contest with a seed older than 15 years, I will include a 1971 Barlow seed.

2/6/2019 9:08:36 AM

Deer Park WA

Do squash qualify? Have several of our old schoo black 834*

2/7/2019 12:13:46 AM

Upper Strasburg, PA

I think that’s fair. Your 834* was a beautiful squash.

2/7/2019 5:28:51 AM

Syracuse, NY

Whoops - i should read ALL the latest posts before even commenting on OLDER ones of a few days ago - apologies;

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=654613

2/7/2019 10:22:26 AM

Alex, IN

Let me know who will keep the money and where to send it.

2/7/2019 2:40:11 PM

Midway, UT

Kind of a cool idea. Would love to see a posting at the end of the season how things turned out for everyone.

2/8/2019 4:30:50 PM

Butler,PA

TruckinPunkin-can the seed be a 2009 seed? It's the same year as the 1725 Harp.

2/8/2019 11:09:13 PM

Upper Strasburg, PA

2008 seems to be the right cutoff. A 2008 seed could have been planted in 2009.

2/9/2019 7:22:44 AM

Commack, NY

i like this idea!

2/9/2019 8:00:42 AM

Ontario

If 2008 is cut off and squash are allowed post a list of rules and I'm in sounds like fun

2/9/2019 12:57:01 PM

That State Up North

So largest official weight grown from 2008 or older seed grown in the 2019 season wins the purse ?
$20/entry ?
No limit on entries per grower?
Entries due before or after the old seeds do or don’t germinate ?
I am going to give it. Try and see what germinates

2/9/2019 8:12:48 PM

That State Up North

Bonus if anyone beats 1725?
2000?
Who wants in on a guess the weight contest?
Where is Mark he has run a lot of random contests?

2/9/2019 8:16:10 PM

Upper Strasburg, PA

The concern that I have about a 15 year minimum is that it will exclude a lot of growers at the gate and less participation means a smaller pot for the winner. That’s why I made the offer of including a 1971.5 Barlow seed as a bonus if the winner is grown on a 15+ year old seed. With a 10 year cutoff, we’re getting back to a major point of divergence in the selection of the contemporary genetics, there should be less scarcity of seeds of that age, and we will have better participation.

If Nic is in this thing, I nominate him to hold the pot.

Here’s a draft of rules. Let me know if this works for everyone.

1. $20 buy in due before seed starting (we can decide on a specific date)
2. Seed must be no more recent than 2008
3. There is no limit in on number of seeds/plants
4. Winner is the heaviest sound pumpkin with an official weight


Please share thoughts on the payout. Should we do his as a winner-take-all? Should we do a break down for first and second place? I’m not sure where I stand on the payout without knowing what the participation will be. If we get 10 growers in this, we have a $200 pot- if we get 20 growers in, we have a $400 pot and that would be a better situation for splitting the pot 2 or 3 ways.

2/9/2019 10:02:29 PM

Grittyville, WA

I thought you were trying to include north shore but he wants to grow a 2009 seed. I think the bottleneck is at about 15-20 years back?

What I see: 1370 Rose x 1068 Wallace and Pukos x 1068 Wallace. There are two pukos seeds 998.6 and 1231.3 but they are the reverse of each other, so they’re the same seed genetically as far as parentage. So each of these three lines, each had two unique parent plants.
Going farther back, these lines overlap again, but to keep it simple, these three lines: 1068.2 Wallace 2003, and the two pukos lines from 2005, and the 1370 Rose 2003... the six plants that fathered these lines must be around right around 95% of the modern gene pool, if not more. I think that’s the tightest bottleneck.

If that’s not the tightest single bottleneck...? Please add your two cents so we can figure this out.

2/10/2019 1:57:48 AM

Grittyville, WA

Some folks have newer seeds that go around this modern bottleneck, straight back to old lines. So these newer seeds should qualify as old seeds? In terms of genetics, they are still old. In terms of seed age, they are too new. On the other hand, 1068.2 Wallace would be an old seed, but in terms of genetics, planting one might not bring in any new genetics, because it’s already approaching 50% of the modern gene pool. So the genetics are effectively new?

2/10/2019 2:08:48 AM

Grittyville, WA

A 20+ year challenge would be the same as a pre 2000 challenge. If there was a trove of seeds that old, and we could distribute them?! Lincoln Mettler still has his collection. He told me this last year. I don’t have his contact info, but if someone asked him, maybe he’d let us dig into his collection.

2/10/2019 2:22:12 AM

Syracuse, NY

Should this be about 'genetics' or about bringing back seeds that have been lost to obscurity because there is always a 'next big craze'? as has been said, if a seed is younger than the criteria of 10 years now, its prize allocation could be reverse-prorated from the pot if it were to be one of, if not the actual, heaviest of all that were grown---because, of course, when you've brought the heaviest pumpkin that's at a weighoff, you win THAT prize, too, right? that's enough notoriety, just like actors and actresses, but for US, it's not for anything BAD.

here's the original discussion about this contest, as of New Year's Eve 2018:

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=650303

Man, i can't WAIT to plant one of my 2145 X 1007s!
---i'm glad that when i started collecting seeds in 2000, THOSE were already geared toward a Relic Revival!

i agree with the rules above, feel there's NO need to make it complicated about the genetics of the seeds incorporated (that could be another contest in '20!) and i'll TRY to keep my mouth (more) shut from here on out---eg

...OK---starting tomorrow. lol---i think the pot should be divided up concerning the # of growers whom enter, into the RANGE of youngest seed to OLDEST seed. there'd be a graph of these two lines and they'd intersect...HP vs. torque, lol---eg

2/10/2019 3:22:31 AM

Grittyville, WA

Some stats:

I can find only three from 15 years ago that grew over 1500. 664.5 Ligget 2004, 1068.2 Wallace 2003, 1142 VanKooten 2004.

Getting too complicated for me and I gotta call it a night. In my mind a seed from 2018 would be one year old. So a seed from 2008 would be eleven years old. But yes a seed from the 2009 season would be only 9.5 years old when planted. But still wouldn’t you call it a “ten year old seed”? I mean, you’d call a 2018 seed “one year old” even though it’s only half a year old. There must be a way to get everyone thinking the same thing. Maybe we should give it some time and revisit this in a month.

Deadline for 150 competition is in April. The deadline for this one could be the same? That would be simple.

2/10/2019 4:05:38 AM

Upper Strasburg, PA

The bottleneck of 1446 Eaton, 1420 LaRue, 1370 Rose, and 1068 Wallace represents a furthering in selection of 723/845 Bobier, 846 Calai, and the 712 Kuhn. There are a few points in time that you could identify as bottlenecks, which are not coincidentally points at which great selections were made. We could look at 1992 and say there was a bottleneck caused by the 827 & 722 Holland seeds.

The most important thing is for this contest to be fun. Trying to split hairs about the definition of an old seed is does not seem to be much fun even for those who want to go there. 2008 makes sense to me because it is prior to the most recent bottleneck that happened with the 1725/2009. So if we want to work from that point and see what we can get out of pre-1725 seeds, I don’t see how it’s fair to accommodate a non-1725 seed that is physically younger. Half the challenge in this contest is getting the plants to grow in the first place.

2/10/2019 5:11:14 AM

Upper Strasburg, PA

898 Knauss obviously is a major part of the 1999-2000 selection as well

2/10/2019 5:12:44 AM

Grittyville, WA

Not trying to split hairs its just a bit confusing. The 1421.5 doesnt contain the 2009 or the 1725. I've got my work cut out for me now because I dont know if any pre 2009 seed has ever hit 2k. I am just trying to be knowledgeable about old seeds and discuss what I know...hopefully I am not just a pain. But I am ok with this competition being a bit of a pain it doesnt have to be easy... You know the saying 'no pain, no gain'. But it would be simple fun and inclusive to make it a pre 1495 and pre 2009 contest... if you want to be simple and inclusive and genetically just want to get around the most recent bottleneck... Or working backwards yes the 1725 would be next but if you are going to take out the 1725 that still leaves the 1161 and 904 which are equal to the 1725 in terms of being powerhouse seeds? Those which got us to where we are today?

2/10/2019 3:38:34 PM

That State Up North

I am digging up some seeds outside all the bottlenecks toassure defeat
730 barber genetics
Gancarz
Ciliberto
Squash seeds
Mmm and more
I will start a few hundred and see what grows
Yes the contest should be fun and if something great happens even better

2/10/2019 8:30:52 PM

Muddy Waters

I have 875 Llyod mother of the 935 Llyod however Im taking the year off. Most likely to far back in the gene pool to win & wont germ.Im only growing Long Gourds this year.I have 4- 143 VanderWielens.I figure time to give AL Eaton a run for his money.I will use all 6 Marks Mixes on my grow in 2019.Plus my stihl blower. With the right weather I might set a new PB. Either way it will be fun to do. Good luck to all. Great idea!

2/10/2019 10:17:34 PM

Grittyville, WA

1676.5 Daletas is the only non 2009/1725 seed to hit 2k. It’s a 2012 seed also. Going back to 2011 eliminates all 2k seeds???

2/11/2019 12:30:51 AM

That State Up North

Nothing better than a good challenge
Environment (improves grower technique) likely accounts for 20% of the current record weights; if not more
1.2 x 1725 > 2000

2/12/2019 9:14:17 PM

Upper Strasburg, PA

Glenomkins,
I really don’t understand the angle behind arguing for seeds more recent than 10 years old to be included in an “Old Seed Contest”. I’m not going to engage in a debate for sport over that point. Half the challenge is going to be germinating these things. If you’re trying to- in some obtuse way- make the argument that we need to raise the minimum age of the seed to 15 years, or else include specifically the 1421.5 Stelts and 1676.5 Daletas, then just say it directly. I’m not trying to be a jerk about this, but you’re really beating a dead horse at this point and I seriously can’t figure out how a seed from 2011 could be considered an old seed in 2019.

As I have said before, I am on board with a 15 year minimum, but I am about the level of participation at that point. Most growers do not have 15+ year old pumpkin seeds. I have quite a few and will list them as available for free to anyone who joins the contest. I will post the list this weekend and we will go with a 15 year minimum age. Cutoff will be seed year 2003.
Thomas

2/13/2019 6:48:05 AM

Upper Strasburg, PA

*concerned about the level of participation
Phone cut off the word concerned when I typed the second paragraph above.

2/13/2019 7:21:31 AM

Upper Strasburg, PA

Mark,
If you’re going to take the year off from Atlantic Giants, you ought to send that old Lloyd seed to Josiah and see how it does in the greenhouse.
Thomas

2/13/2019 7:23:24 AM

Sometimes Inn

anyone know how to find results of past years 1998-20003 to study?

2/13/2019 3:02:31 PM

Corryton, TN

Go to giantstogrow.com and click on the "Giant Pumpkins" link. Enter a year in the search box. Drop down will have pumpkins that match that weight in addition to pumpkins from that year.

2/13/2019 3:37:10 PM

Sometimes Inn

ty

2/13/2019 7:39:09 PM

Muddy Waters

Im keeping the seed its in a frame. Im sure its dried up after 20 years.Actually I just decided to partner up with Eri a good friend.We will be growing at his house. Clementz/Welton We will be growing the 1911 Urena & my 1734-(1317 selfed) that produces Orange everytime. I will cross the two each way. This should make a seed that will grow a 3000 lb WR thats ORANGE>.Thats my goal before I retire from the Giant world some day in the next 20 years.

2/13/2019 10:34:39 PM

Muddy Waters

I really like the Orange kins that are being grown the Haist 2416 The 2152 Ganter.I see a lot of potential in growing a 3000 lb Orange WR. I may grow the 1501 also & cross that in the mix

2/13/2019 10:39:13 PM

Grittyville, WA

Truckin, you mentioned a 1230 Daletasx 801 black cross you made. This would bring up old genetics, although it's not a 15 year old seed. I think Eric mentioned some a cross he made that brought some old genetics up. I'm thinking broadly in terms of the goal of the project, which is to test old genetics. A new seed could either be from old genetics, or from new genetics... If that makes any sense. I'm sure everyone else also has good ideas... Ideas which may make more sense. I'm at the limits of my ability to explain my thinking, and it doesn't really matter anyhow... It's not my competition.

2/14/2019 12:45:15 AM

Upa Creek, Mo

Glenomkins, you are overthinking this. It is not a project with goals. It is a fun contest that requires an older seed.

2/14/2019 8:39:56 AM

Grittyville, WA

yes you're right...

2/14/2019 2:51:24 PM

That State Up North

If anyone is short on old seeds, I am happy to donate and depending on germinationsuccess could have extra plants in springtime
If someone wants to bring up some old great color seeds nd give them a try I probably have those as well.
Do we have a good platform on here to organize the participants?

2/14/2019 8:27:03 PM