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Location

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Ithaca, NY

When people discuss progress in agriculture they often discuss historical corn grain yields and show this classic plot https://www.agry.purdue.edu/ext/corn/news/timeless/yieldtrends.html . Basically, it shows the contribution of breeding methods and growing practices to corn yields. The gain in record pumpkin weights mirrors this plot http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryView.asp?season=2018&grower=62485&action=L.

I'm curious, what do you see as the major advances and innovations in giant pumpkin breeding/growing?

9/11/2018 7:11:45 PM

Bethlehem CT

This is an interesting topic, the biggest advancement in my opinion is in the seeds and there improved genetics. Another big factor is with people sharing seeds and information. Everyone is now connected with each other via the internet. I can hardly believe how far the world record has advanced int the past 15 years. Years ago growers were likely to keep their seeds and secrets to themselves in order to keep a competitive advantage at the local weigh off.

9/12/2018 6:50:33 AM

New England

Selective breeding and growing knowledge: What works and what doesn't. Hard to compare growing Giant Pumpkins to that of production Agriculture where the focus is on high yield and maximizing yield in space. Whereas giant pumpkins we are basically "babying" a plant to the extreme to get optimal results. Not feasible or feasible for agriculture to do this; they would be out of business.

But like anything whether it be animals, crops, plants, etc; the goal is always to improve the next generation via thoughtful breeding practices while constantly tweaking management and management practices as new knowledge is gained. The result is forward Progress

9/12/2018 9:20:44 AM

Western NY

Breeding - both genetic and epigenetic influences.

Cultural and fertilization practices have helped a bit I'm sure, but they can't account for the majority of the gains.

9/12/2018 9:50:43 AM

Colorado

Ditto what andy said-Big science experiment with real time growing info and genetic information and large participation/seed sharing.Question is what is the ceiling weight wise- went from 1000 to 2000 real fast-3000?

9/12/2018 3:32:54 PM

Germany

I think its also the intention of the human mind if, by the years, something changes to a plant.
If you choose the biggest and believe that the offspring will get even bigger, it results maybe as this, because you believe it.

9/13/2018 1:39:36 PM

Billerica,Massachusetts

the internet really helped accelerate and grow it, back in the day all we had was word of mouth, telephone and a few newsletters.

9/13/2018 3:34:31 PM

Syracuse, NY

Are Atlantic Giant seeds 'better' than they were 15 years ago, like, do they 'now' produce bigger fruit (well, yeah, but what about IN CONTRAST TO seeds OF 15 years ago), oranger with thicker walls, hardier than ever, etc.? or, not in MY case, 'cause i'm a creature of habit and still have a PB of 912.5 because i don't do anything REALLY different than in 2006, lol, is the PERCEPTION that 'we' are advancing Giant Pumpkin Growing and GENETICS to a new level in a short time simply coinciding with the cliche' "Technology is advancing SO fast right now..."; When has it NOT been? Wright Brothers, flight---Einstein, atomic bomb---NASA, first man on the moon---Concorde, supersonic flight---i'm sure the phrase uttered often back then(s) was also as-above; here is my question/point: are there any growers that THIS or LAST YEAR are growing 'relic' seeds of 10-15 years in heritage? i'd like to see an 1142 van Kooten get grown to 2K pounds, for instance. i got a 1007 Brown to sprout last year and it did very well, although the usual end result---nnnyeaaahhh, 386.? pounds? had fun with it, anyway (poll'd X the 2145 McMullen, AND the reverse), if you wanna try it, for free---i am doing better this year, but not much...but, if Beni Meier grew it, or Ron Wallace, for instance, or any of a HUNDRED other growers, what then? i think Brett Cooper was growing some very oldies this year...
just throwing it out there---eg

9/13/2018 8:24:38 PM

50 Acres

Dedication.

9/13/2018 8:25:57 PM

Ithaca, NY

Something that I have always wondered about is how genetically diverse our starting material was. If the gains we have seen over the years are mostly driven by genetics than the starting material would have had to be very diverse. Based on what I've read, Howard Dill did some selection on crosses between giant Hubbards and some other South American squash to produce the Atlantic Giant. This origin seed stock and lines from some of the early growers like Bob Ford provided the starting material for today's giants. Over time the giant pumpkin community has likely purged many deleterious alleles, which has led to bigger fruit with fewer defects. I wonder how much diversity is left? If there isn't a lot of genetic diversity in modern giants then the driving factor in world records today is likely growing practices.

9/14/2018 7:44:42 PM

Ithaca, NY

Maybe it's time for us to make some wide crosses. For example, cross modern AGs with other giant squash that may have beneficial alleles, not in our current AGs. There are sources of diverse germplasm https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/view2.aspx?dv=web_taxonomyspecies_view_accessionlist&params=:taxonomyid=12597. It would take a lot of patience to incorporate new material into modern stocks, but it may be worth it.

9/14/2018 7:49:40 PM

Germany

Hi pumpkinpal2
I think there was nobody on the moon.
I also think that wtc7 could not fallen down on all four
building corners just because of fire.
The way this building was going down was caused by controlled demolition.
Preparing such a building needs weeks or month of work.
So the US Government is corrupted for over 17 years now.

9/14/2018 8:40:21 PM

Grittyville, WA

It would be smart to test the current stock of seeds for diversity and then decide if further breeding of the best lines is a waste of effort because of lack of diversity. The truth is we don't know. But look at all the different shapes and colors. For example the 2112 vs the 2269... There is diversity but growers have always been in the dark about how much diversity. Once the pumpkin genetics is understood... I for one will be switching to giant mushrooms or giant beanstalks... Because I am more crazy than the rest of you...

9/14/2018 8:46:48 PM

Syracuse, NY

15 minutes well-spent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

thank you Kurbisfreak---i had no idea!

(a depiction/explanation that the WTC went down due to pre-placed Therm(ate/ite) rather than by the heat of the jet fuel and combustibles otherwise.
"I guess it CAN!" VERY detailed and well-worth watching;
even a few good laughs at that quote i got this morning---eg

9/15/2018 9:08:56 AM

Syracuse, NY

Chris H, in reference to the HUMAN genome project, is finishing it or having done so already going to enable mankind to determine/utilize/adjust-to-taste certain if not all characteristics and/or enable disease eradication for our species, therein prompting OTHER enthusiasts to do the same for, let's say, giant pumpkin growers? in other words, can someone run the same program for a few months/years and get the AG's DNA analyzed as well? this is merely to make up for my hijacking of your original post, lol----eg

9/15/2018 9:16:37 AM

Syracuse, NY

all we should care about is big, bIG, BIG!
color is merely along for the ride.
so, any fruit that is BIG and ORANGE is from,
on and headed down the right track already.
eg

9/15/2018 9:23:02 AM

Plymouth, MN

pumpkinpal2--I'm not a plant breeder, but work in biomedicine. C. maxima's genome was sequenced last year. Given how much the cost of sequencing has come down, $10-50,000 could get a lot of information. I'm fascinated by the idea of comparing the genomes 2000+ lb specimens with commercial seed packet type plants. Or if old seeds could be tracked down, with seeds from the 80's or 90s.

But aside from curiosity and perhaps some scientific interest, I don't know what use the information would be to your average grower. Maybe you could identify some alleles that are commonly found in big fruit. I don't see people then going out and screening individual seeds or plants quite yet.

I think there'd be a lot more mileage out of better genealogy/pedigrees. Pumpkin fanatic is a terrific resource, but I think there'd be real potential if that information were mined and put into real pedigree software. It'd be a real value to know how inbred the big pumpkins are--is the community breeding itself into a dead end? Are there multiple lineages of quality fruit that should be maintained or crossed, for size, color, or other factors? It'd be a good off-season project, particularly if someone with computer savvy wanted to get involved.

9/15/2018 2:34:30 PM

Ithaca, NY

cjb--I am a grad student in a plant breeding lab. We focus primarily on breeding cucurbits including C. maxima. I agree that there is a lot of valuable pedigree data that could provide some insight. Unfortunately, the naming scheme used in AG pedigrees makes pedigree analysis difficult. Essentially, the pedigrees need to be rebuilt from the beginning. I am working on writing a program to do this in some of my spare time. With regards to sequencing, for ~$6,000-10,000 it would be possible to sequence a couple of hundred AGs using available methods. Hundreds of diverse C. maximas are already being sequenced as part of the CucCap project https://cuccap.org/cucurbit-crops/squash/. I think it would be really cool to analyze AGs from old to new with this data. There are a number of interesting questions about the origin and evolution of pumpkins that could be addressed with this data. I would like to do it, but it would require me to write a research grant and I think it would be hard to get a grant about giant pumpkins funded.

9/15/2018 3:19:56 PM

Ithaca, NY

I am thinking of launching a project on https://experiment.com/ to get funding. Would there be community interest? It would be a giant citizen science project where I would ask growers to send me the pedigree of their most interesting seed. I would then use the pedigrees to identify the most informative lineages for sequencing. Then I would ask growers to grow out the seed, record some basic information about the plant and fruit and then send me some tissue for DNA extraction. Everyone who participates would be acknowledged in scientific publications resulting from the project and I could provide a genetic report on the seeds to all growers with ancestry information, kind of like the human genetic testing companies do.

9/15/2018 3:29:46 PM

Germany

Hi pumpkinpal2

People can think about tower 1 and 2 what they want.
The clear evidence is wtc7.
The way all four corners collapsed at the same time
shows that it was controlled demolition.
Also the building was 100 m long on the backside and
75 m long on the front side.
Such a big building only involved in regional fires
cannot collapse on all four buildingkorners at the same time.
It can also not collapse in free fall.
It collapsed in free fall at the beginning of the collapse.
Also. That is only possible with controlled demolition,
destroying the structures on all buildingfloors on nearly the same time.
You also don´t need termite, there are many modern explosives available that will not show from the outside
that there are explosions inside the building.

But there is another evidence that it was all prepared weeks before 9/11:
Many people heard explosions going on. Not only in Building 7. But also in Tower 1 and 2 when they came down.
World is in the hands of crazy evil for more than 17 years now.
"WORLS trade center" destroyed.

"trade" symbolizes also: "i give, you give".
Now maybe the new slogan is: "you give, if i want".

And since those prepared demolitions they always talk about terrorism. Terrorism here and terrorism there.
And so they destoyed many governments talking about terrorism and terrorists. And their A card are 9/11.
But it was all planned.

Also gadaffi knew that a evil plot in mankind is going on.
So they killed gadaffi and were talking about terrorism. As usual.

I hope my english is not to bad. I am from germany.
Here in germany there is also a evil plot going on.

9/15/2018 4:00:46 PM

Ithaca, NY

Kürbisfreak-- Isn't this a forum for discussing AG-related topics? Please stop posting half-baked conspiracy theories. It's annoying and incredibly insulting. Nobody wants to read this.

9/15/2018 4:16:07 PM

Plymouth, MN

Chris-I'm a CU alumnus myself--I had a feeling you were affiliated with the U. Not a lot of other people in Ithaca. I'm not familiar with funding for your type of work, maybe it'd be possible to write a grant around ID'ing factors associated with extreme fruit size? It's all about the spin.

RE: a crowd sourced project--I think the community is passionate enough that there may be interest. You need to advertise in a separate thread, not have it buried in a thread full of conspiracy theories. I think the pedigree would get more interest than the genomics work--would be more accessible to and actionable on for your average grower.

Agree about the problems with existing pedigrees. It's biased to fruits that make it to weigh offs, I'm sure. The failures aren't well captured. I think a proper analysis of existing data would be interesting, as would be a 5 or so year project examining seed by seed outcome where you could capture splits, plant size to fruit size, and other variables (maybe even disease susceptibility).

9/15/2018 4:40:38 PM

Germany

Hi Chris H

U are right.
Sometimes my feelings to political stuff mixes with this great hobby (Atlantic Giant growing).
Maybe it is the fear that at some day they will raise tax
for non economical hobbys. And so i think it ist not 100% bad to think critical about whats going on outside the patch..

regards from germany.

9/15/2018 5:14:34 PM

Syracuse, NY

Take it easy, Chris---he was pretty much answering to my mentioning of other topics as well. Just, be a little more mellow---everybody hates to have to tip-toe around a website for fear of being blasted. I, too, will try to stay more on-topic. I look forward to progress in your project and maybe someday will have a seed that you need for it. 's (abbreviation for 'As', lol) far as i can tell, 'we' grow seeds and whichever ones grow the biggest or orangest are very popular for a few years until the next biggest or orangest comes along and then those are also grown out to extinction or until those seeds are forgotten/no longer viable; however, you can only get so ORANGE, but perhaps with genetic engineering beyond me and my 3 males cut the night before and my nylon mesh baggie and a nice 5-lober in the dewy morning mist awaiting my expert pollination technique, we can one day break the now-looming 3,000-pound mark within each of our lifetimes.
2,624.6 pounds. spaces intended. just imagine. eg

9/17/2018 11:54:23 PM

Syracuse, NY

spaces did not show up. hmmmph! oh, well.

9/17/2018 11:56:14 PM