From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Watlington, UK

OK I have a pumpkin on the main vine at 12ft but the flower didn't look good and it was an open pollination as I was away. It's now about 10DAP but for these reasons I'm not optimistic that it will pull through. There are no more females on the main.

So the question is which is best for a backup? At the moment I have 2 to choose from:

a) strong vine direct from the stump, pollinated at 6 ft

b) weaker secondary vine 6 ft from stump, pollinated about 4ft out from the main

Opinions welcome :)

7/8/2018 6:56:22 AM

Dillonvale, Ohio

The weaker secondary. It gives you more plant behind the fruit. Cut the main right after that secondary, and train it as the new main. The secondary will get stronger, let tertiaries grow behind the fruit too.

7/8/2018 7:18:04 AM

Upa Creek, Mo

I've grown on secondaries multiple years. The smallest growth was from a secondary right off the stump. I'd shoot for the middle or end and grow as many terts as new secondaries off it like Wolf3080 said. I'm currently doing that right now and clearing established growth as they spread out.

7/8/2018 10:37:42 AM

Hadley Ny

I've grown multiple kins off the first strong vine and like Smallmouth says they don't get very big and I had much larger kins on secondariws further out.

7/8/2018 10:47:35 AM

Grittyville, WA

I’d advise to do both let the plant decide. In other words take measurements and cull down to the best one at around day 10-20.

7/8/2018 12:17:23 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Wolf, Gerald stated that there is an open pollination at 12 feet meaning a huge portion of the plant would be lost if the main is cut at the fourth secondary. Please don’t do that, but I do agree that the further out secondary the better.

7/8/2018 12:47:47 PM

Watlington, UK

Thanks guys. Interesting to note that the vine straight from the stump won't provide big fruit, despite the vine being strong and vigorous. I'll see what I can do with a secondary as far out as possible, should the pumpkin on the main fail.

7/8/2018 1:31:51 PM

Watlington, UK

Thanks guys. Interesting to note that the vine straight from the stump won't provide big fruit, despite the vine being strong and vigorous. I'll see what I can do with a secondary as far out as possible, should the pumpkin on the main fail.

7/8/2018 1:31:52 PM

Syracuse, NY

make a mental chart of all three and i'd like to be totally impartial but although i've learned from this post and its answers, as long as you have the luxury of time on your side, someone already mentioned to let them grow and decide upon which to keep based on their size, position and shape/color at a magic date, and remove one then, and another at another magic date...especially if they are not all on the same side of the plant; i have had a side vine fruit two vines back from the one on the main on the other side overtake the main vine fruit and end up being my biggest. (that one's) size doesn't matter, lol---eg

7/8/2018 5:25:47 PM

Dillonvale, Ohio

Orangeneck, all that plant that is in front of the secondary is worthless to the kin, they don't back feed. If the one on the main fails, there is no sense in feeding and watering plant that does nothing

7/8/2018 9:33:46 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Wolf3080,

Are there any studies you can cite that demonstrate that back feeding doesn't occur? I've wondered about how much effect the plant past the pumpkin has on pumpkin growth.

7/9/2018 1:46:18 AM

Grittyville, WA

I can’t cite any studies but I’m of the opinion the vine absolutely does feed sugars back. How else would the roots grow?

7/9/2018 3:17:11 AM

Grittyville, WA

But wolf, do you mean the main might distract the plant from focusing energy into the pumpkin, because the main uses energy to grow, and it might use more than it would produce?. So then rather than cut the main off he could remove all new growth on the old main and this would stop the main from using any energy which might might help the energy flow elsewhere. I don’t think it’s worth arguing about because sometimes these things defy logic but I don’t a blanket statement say that the main does not feed energy back always holds true.

7/9/2018 3:28:28 AM

Grittyville, WA

Another try on that last sentence: I don’t think a blanket statement saying that the main does not feed energy back always holds true.

7/9/2018 3:30:47 AM

Syracuse, NY

if you site-search PAST THE PUMPKIN on the home page, you'll see more than you can read in a day about this very subject - DO go far enough down to hit posts, not pictures, unless you run out of ones to read, lol. eg

7/9/2018 4:09:41 AM

Dillonvale, Ohio

There are examples in this thread. Smallmouth and Big T both have tried some of the 1st secondaries. If the plant backfeeds, theirs would have been bigger. Plus, ask some heavy hitters, they have the experience

7/9/2018 7:54:39 AM

Upa Creek, Mo

I'm not saying the plant doesn't backfeed at all, because I do not know. But, my experience growing off the first secondary was minimal.

I know there are people reading this that know or at least have theories from studying AG's and hope they post. I'd bet it is somewhere in between. My example is based on observation of pumpkin A being bigger than pumpkin B and here were there locations on secondaries (same seed).

7/9/2018 8:38:56 AM

central Nc

isn't backfeeding the whole purpose of the phloem?

7/9/2018 10:01:53 AM

Dillonvale, Ohio

I know I said they don't back feed at all, but I believe it is very minimal. So little, that it doesn't make sense to feed and water plant in front of the fruit.

7/9/2018 10:05:33 AM

Dillonvale, Ohio

If I get the opportunity to test this, I will. I will have a late pollination this year, if I can set something up, I will. In theory, I can test it on a main set kin and a secondary set kin with the main cut

7/9/2018 10:08:15 AM

Syracuse, NY

i hope Gerald got enough answers to his original post, lol---i also hope that Wolf3080's policy of 'follow the fruit' is effective(!); seems it's what we all have done, selected the best fruit and went with it, without removing the 'fat from the steak'; PS---you CAN cut any part (in-place) of any plant from the whole, and if adequate vines are buried, each segment can and will thrive as though it had been on its own from the start - been there, done that, woo-hoo---eg

7/9/2018 11:08:29 AM

Western Massachusetts

Water flows usually in 1 direction in plants, at least 90%. There is probably a small amount of backfeeding that does occur, however I would guess it is minimal at best.

7/9/2018 11:21:49 AM

Colorado

The pumpkin probably pulls nutrients from the whole plant to some degree.However a fruit set out in front on a secondary vine turned into a"new main" prob. develops a better apical dominance scenario than one set on a small square footage back secondary. I think the 2106 schmit proves that out.Sugars move easily through the plant-calcium is one way

7/9/2018 11:31:19 AM

Upa Creek, Mo

What was the story and logistics of the 2106, it was far out?

7/9/2018 12:31:05 PM

Colorado

It was on a side vine close to the main vine(chosen fruit). The main vine fruit developed a weird blossom end so he cut it and went with a open pollinated fruit on a secondary close by the main vine fruit.He then trained that secondary as the main.

7/9/2018 1:12:11 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

Thanks

7/9/2018 1:33:33 PM

Grittyville, WA

Maybe mike will reply himself but my understanding was that he left the old main and that it was a significant part of a large 1100 sq ft plant. It was not removed. If the plant does not back feed then are all the top growers are wasting half their patches? What is the biggest grown when dead ended at the pumpkin? Its so uncommon amongst the top growers that exist. Good topic but are you really going to say Hollands 2363 pollinated 10 feet out didnt back feed much...

7/9/2018 2:04:55 PM

Grittyville, WA

I think the back feeding of sugars can be significant. No facts though sorry just an opinion.

7/9/2018 2:09:05 PM

Hadley Ny

I have run several...15-20...on a secondary off the stump. I have room to run them directly away from the plant and have had vines 20' plus and the kins are all small. Never cut the main until 30'. 4th out secondaries or further have produced the best fruit by far. I'm in my 3rd year but grow 25-30 plants a year. My personal best was on the 4th secondary only 4' out. Everything on the main aborted and went with what I had. Ended up with a 100lber on the first secondary 20' out. Pollinated july 21st on the 4th secondary and ended up with 500 lbs. My season ends beginning of September.

7/9/2018 2:16:12 PM

Grittyville, WA

Good info. & Cut the main or not... Your choice there I think there are reasonable opinions and few facts exist on either side.

7/9/2018 2:39:07 PM

Wisconsin

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o_qcIyfn2fE

Copy and paste that in your browser.

7/9/2018 7:32:07 PM

Syracuse, NY

for you sticklers for details, at 1:05 (paused) you can look really closely and see a blob of vine 'goo' where the main vine was cut and healed, IF i'm not mistaken;
!!!AWESOME video!!!
FYI---about 39 of those views are from ME, lol---a perfect example of 'follow the fruit' (C* 2018 eg) lol; one question, though: how big were each of the fruits when the main vine was cut to initiate the ' new main' technique? no pressure, just wondered; >>>i'd like to mention to EVERYone that generally, when you wanna hit a link, you can try this:
highlight the whole thing you wanna view or research, whether it's a name, product OR a link (WOW!), as above, right-click on the highlighted text and then select 'go to' or 'search the web for' and it'll got to that item---if it works for you, SUPER-easy now to search ANYthing! later---eg

7/10/2018 6:44:59 AM

Watlington, UK

Cool video. I think that answers my question and gives me some optimism ;) It would be interesting to know how big you can grow a pumpkin from a vine direct from the stump that isn't the main vine.

7/10/2018 6:32:55 PM

Syracuse, NY

yeah, i hope we hear back to my question about that, like, the 2106 may have been @ 400 lbs. and was ushered-along to its final weight by its secondary and 9 others before it...

7/11/2018 12:15:57 AM