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Clinton, Iowa

I have been an avid supporter to this tech. when it comes to growering pumpkins. My question is why do I do it and am I going to do it again this coming year? The past 3 seasons I have really looked over my plants when removing and I have yet to see "the extra set of roots" protruding out the top of the vine. Which I thought was why we do it.I like the way it helps hold the vines down for added wind protection. BUT there are some draw backs with softening of the vines and damage to the leaf stems. So has anyone any thoughts on this?

11/19/2003 6:15:38 AM

Montoursville, PA

The two major reasons are root system to hold down and pick up nutrients over all of the patch and to protect against SVB in areas where they exist. We yeild a possible leaf stem to SVB but hide the vine from them.

11/19/2003 8:19:32 AM

Deer Park, WI

The primary reason I bury my vines is to enhance the quality of the taproot coming out of the bottom of the node. Sure, you can try to develop the top root, but it aint going far unless you bury your vines a foot deep.

If you dont bury vines, the plant will still attempt to put a root down at each node, but the chances of setting a healthy successful root are varied. Roots are very very sensitive to drying and mechanical damage. Therefore, covering them with soil ensures two things...they wont dry out and they are not subject to mechanical damage. In my opinion, root health is the #1 or 2 important factor in determining fruit size. Anything you can do to maximize conditions for root health is going to pay dividends in the form of lbs.

11/19/2003 9:11:40 AM

White Plains, NY

I won't bury the main to the fruit this year. I had a 550lbs on the Boyton 950.4 and it slowed at the begining of
August and then stopped growing shortly thereafter. An investigation revealed the buried main vine was completely rotted (mush). I now will keep the main visable.

11/19/2003 10:20:05 AM

Sequim, WA

I had roots from buried vines that I pulled up that were two feet long, and some of them were from the top of the vine. Perhaps what you bury them with is a factor. I used a product called Tagro mixed with the native soil. This is a biosolid mixed with sand and maple sawdust. It is light and rich in nutrients. This allows for good penetration of the roots. It doesn't require a deep burying, a couple inches will do as long it is enough to prevent the soil from washing off the top in the rain or when watering. And I am not especially thorough or meticulous. Some get missed and some are thinly covered. but it does stabilize the plant in the wind. Root development and wind protection are the two reasons I do this. SVB's are not an issue here. Rotting vines may be more do to pathogens in the soil than a byproduct of burying the vines. I suspect those plants that were affected this way would have had some ill effects regardless of whether they were buried, unless it was a problem of too much moisture. Just my thoughts.

11/19/2003 11:19:51 AM

Long Island,New York

Well...why just let the soilborne nasties only eat the bottom roots when they can attack the new top-roots and the entire vine?

11/19/2003 3:25:05 PM

Montoursville, PA

Glen.........feed those nasties fermented molasses so they chomp on each other instead of the vines. LMAO

11/19/2003 4:00:23 PM

Iowa

I mulch my patch with straw, so I just put a thin layer of straw ove the nodes, just enough so light doesn't get through and this seems good enough for me. If you have problems with your stem rotting, maybe you should only bury the nodes every other or ever third node. This will still give the vine extra stability, yet leave more of it out in the air. Plus you won't have any problems with rotting next year Danny because you are going to faithfully use Daconil! :)

11/20/2003 7:30:59 AM

Clinton, Iowa

I would not say THEY ROT but they sometimes get a little softish feeling and somewhat discolored...the discoloration is probably from being under the soil...but th esoftness is what concerns me.

11/20/2003 11:26:07 AM

Tacoma, WA

Last season, my main vine rotted above the ground! The covered vines did fine!

Stan

11/20/2003 3:23:10 PM

Calif

Good topic Dan! I didn't bury this year as a test Why is because of the rot threat and not sure how much the top node adds. I am thinking that the top node is a back up or a defense in case the vine gets flopped 180 then it can still root. So hard to say..When we look at our theory we bury the vine to hold it down and to gain more rooting. This also activates the top root node more roots the better right? Well I always thought that. But then something didn't add up folks were pruning plants so small that "the more buried vine root the better" was being challenged. They actually were burying much less. Its appears that the plant seems to compensate . My test seemed to indicate -- it didn't make much difference I still had my same ole same ole for this area.....average pumpkins---i can bury every vine and still have the same average result. So makes you wonder if the risk of rot is worth it ...need someone like Bruce W. to just let the bottom tap root take and skip the top.......and see what happens.....MB

11/20/2003 6:00:07 PM

Clinton, Iowa

Very well said Mike.....I like you don;t really see alot of advantage from the burying other then stability...Like I mentioned I don;t think I have ever sdeen the root coming out of the top..I have seen it on vines that I did not trench in and then I would throw a shovel full of soil over it BUT still I hav enot found this HUGE extra rooting other talk about... I like the idea JUST have not seen it here in my patch!

11/20/2003 8:18:55 PM

Utah

Dan -

I think Joe has it right. it really helps to get the tap root out of the bottom going.
yes each individual root might not be a big old root system. but if each is say the size of your hand, and you have 500-1000 more more leaves then all those add up and make a significant difference.

11/21/2003 8:46:14 AM

Calif

What i find is the most interesting thing about AGs is how they seem to compensate but i think all plants do. I didn't really believe it until i tried cutting out every other secondary -I thought it was a crazy idea---but then the leaves left got bigger and filled the space. But just didn't like that idea it seemed the more leaves and vine nodes burried had to be the best. Either way same results for me Then i tried a lax no bury test......no world records but not a heck of alot of difference I attribute this to good soil- -but lets face it every lb. counts!! So does this mean skip a node or two will the plant compensate? Most would say no and i wonder--- bury every thing and i am with that group. But what i think we are seeing is timely pruning is making the main root system stronger. That alot of taps are supporting the vine to travel out in search of nutrients and a safety to ensure that if the vine stump rots the plant can then shift to support the fruits seed production . Alot of plants like to to spead and root but their contributions to the mother root hell who knows? Now one would calculate that the tap root just under the pumpkin would be the most efficient.......yet most the time it is cut early on...and yet the compensation seems to be there.-------------good soil is key...MB

11/21/2003 7:55:17 PM

Nova Scotia

hi carlson. last year and now i simply threw dirt over each leaf nod and almost all mine this year and last had top roots along with bottom, i think the key is to get dirt on the nod while young and not dried out. for then it will never grow. but you have to be careful not to bury to fast or it somehow stunts side vine growth. but from last years experience i know that it does rot the base off . thats why i only put half a shovel on eash nod that way after a month of watering it washes away showing roots going over the top of the vine down.

11/22/2003 2:49:48 PM

No Place Special

Dan, I have also noticed that my burried vines became softer and discolored and some even rotten. That was my main reason for not burying the main this yr. Different plants handled it differently to. I will follow the general population and bury again this yr. I also plan to bury some with straight compost. After reading all responses here, what is your new opinion?

Mike

11/23/2003 10:08:30 PM