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Stouffville

Yo guys

I just played a fun game (haha at least for me!) on the AGGC website, I picked random thousand pounders and traced their heritage back as far as I could until I got a pumpkin in the 80's which had no parents specified! I'm trying to find the original giants whose genetics have been spliced together through many generations leading to the various strains today. I'm trying to figure out how many pumpkins in say the 70's or 80's are responsible for what we have today. that is to say, at some point could all of today's pumpkins be linked back to just one fruit grown in the 70's or what? Interesting question I think. Some of the ones I've found which are not specified are:

355.6* Dill 85
493.5 Dill 81
612.4 Orr 92 (I think Norm Craven mentioned that this pumpkin came from the 674.5 Waterman?!?!?, in which case it has it's origins in the 579.5 Nesbitt 86)
579.5 Nesbitt 86
530 Gancarz 89
390 Gancarz 84
609 Laemmle 89 -> sib and selfed strain originating from seed from Richard Wright. Where did Mr. Wright get em from?!?

I wonder whether this above list can be reduced further, most likely it can, I just wonder who has info on these pumpkins...

Mike

11/1/2003 11:30:03 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

You think too much....

11/1/2003 1:56:26 PM

Stouffville

haha thanks

11/1/2003 3:10:21 PM

[email protected]

I should think it would be a fine thing to sit & talk with Howard Dill for a while. These seeds parents had to originate with him. But the who's, where's, when's & what not's would make for an interesting innerview. Might make a good book too.

"Origins of the Modern Dill's Atlantic Giant".

11/1/2003 4:58:26 PM

Wroclaw, Poland (51 N, 17 E)

Yeah, it would be a great book. I would like to know more about pumpkin growing history.

11/1/2003 7:21:53 PM

Ontario

If you researched it back far enough, you'll find all today's pumpkins have a common ancestor in the Goderich (Ontario) Giant. This pumpkin was grown by William Warnock in 1903 and weighed in at 403 lbs. That pumpkin was the world record holder for decades and it's decendants were used by Howard Dill to finally top that record in 1979. I Know. Too much information right. I really should develop other interests ;0)

11/1/2003 7:46:02 PM

Stouffville

so it was Howard Dill who provided the Alan Nesbitt, the Gancarz bros and Richard Wright with seeds? Actually Alan Nesbitt has been known to post here from time to time...what was the origin of your 579.5? it's had a pretty important place in giant pumpkin history

So all the genetic variation we see today actually comes from one fruit (the 403)? What about varieties like hungarian mammoth, like Harold Fulp Jr.'s 513lb 1977 squash?and any other large maximas... too many questions i know haha... i'm full of them...i'm a curious kid

11/1/2003 8:27:46 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

you think too much... :0)

11/1/2003 11:01:36 PM

colorado

what produced Warnocks fruit?

11/1/2003 11:17:13 PM

Md/ Usa

steve no one will ever know

11/1/2003 11:28:05 PM

colorado

:-( maybe hungarian x warnock x hungarian mammoth again is dills variety? Thanks, Steve

11/1/2003 11:29:00 PM

Ontario

How about the 229 Hewitt from 1883? or the 226 Dunn from 1884? Your guess is as good as anyone's. It's safe to say that the 403 Warnock was the basis of our current line in that it was bought by the Rennie Seed Company and used as a seed stock. Rennie Seeds (as well as others) were used by Mr. Dill in developing his own line of seeds . The 403 was definitely an aberation. This wasn't planned by careful crosses and record keeping. It's only of the last few decades that crosses have been recorded and studied. I suppose that accounts for the way the world record keeps getting topped every year. Thinking, thinking. Always thinking about big pumpkins :0)

11/1/2003 11:48:30 PM

Stouffville

how did you acquire your knowleged cowpie? how was the rennie seed company seeds maintained during the war of escalating nuclear arms? perhaps jimi hendrix during his times of sobriety played a part? or what

11/2/2003 2:13:20 AM

Stouffville

how do color variations or the non-hardening off gene of the mombert strain relate back to any pumpkin?

11/2/2003 2:17:23 AM

Carrollton, Ga.

hi,
what is the non-hardening off gene mean, I am not familiar with that.
one dude

11/2/2003 2:43:41 AM

New York

My 579.5 was grown from Scott Cully's 515.4 WPC winner from '85..also featured on the tonight show with Johnny Carsen. I believe Scott's 515.4 was grown from Howard Dill 400+ seed he purchased in '84.
Richard Wright did a lot of trading with the Gancarz brothers in the early 80's..I visited his patch in '87.
Actually, William Warnock was well ahead of his time..he did such things as vine burying and carefull seed selection starting in the late 1800's...he hand pollinated the females along with pruning. He even warned against using "milk" to inject...that thing has gone on for many years now. His 1st recorded World Record was in 1893 at a weight of 365 pounds. Then he hit 400 pounds in 1900..and again in 1903 at 403 pounds. This record lasted until 1976 when Bob Ford of Penn grew a pumkin weighing 451 pounds. Mr. Warnock passed away in 1923. Ed Gancarz has credited Bob Ford for supplying him seeds in the 70's...which he used to grow some of his early fruit. I know Hugh Wiberg has talked to William Warnock's daughter in the early 80's..when she was in her 80's. A picture of Williams 400 can be found at the AGGC web-site with William's daughter at age 5. Alan

11/2/2003 3:15:09 AM

ontario

Phil you should be spending that extra energy in the patch preparing for next years 1000 lber......guard that 735 its your 1000 lber next year.....but don't let the wife have it LOL........:0)

11/2/2003 7:56:16 AM

Ontario

Hee,Hee....It always seems to happen, doesn't it Wayne. She always seems to get the heaviest pumpkin. Maybe I'll resort to weighing them before the weigh-off like some people I know! That will kill half the fun though....kinda like shaking Christmas presents on Christmas Eve. She seems to spend all the prize money either way , so it doesn't seem to matter much. :0(

11/2/2003 10:32:30 AM

Ontario

BTW does anybody know who the first person was to record not only his own weights and crosses but other growers as well? Whoever it was deserves a big slap on the back.

11/2/2003 11:07:15 AM

Stouffville

Interesting information Alan, thanks a lot, I'm really fascinated by it all.

Mike

11/2/2003 11:27:10 AM

Woodburn, Indiana

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:j3TFbZzDfL8J:www.pumpkinfest.org/growers/vine-12-2002.pdf+365+Warnock+1893&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

11/2/2003 12:05:13 PM

Woodburn, Indiana

scroll to the middle of the page

11/2/2003 12:09:38 PM

Woodburn, Indiana

page 3

11/2/2003 12:10:18 PM

Md/ Usa

http://www.pumpkinfest.org/growers/vine-12-2002.pdf
is better link to pdf of the file

11/2/2003 12:16:49 PM

Md/ Usa

Also the article shows that milk legend is over 100 years old.

11/2/2003 12:18:03 PM

ontario

guess your happy to be second in the family Phil...prize money goes in patch doesn't it......... LMAO :0)

11/2/2003 2:07:15 PM

Ontario

Mine always goes to the wife. Had to beg for 500 dollars last year lol

11/2/2003 5:31:23 PM

ontario

me to Drew......only had the cheques till I got to the Van...but she's letting me buy a new 500 gallon watertank in the spring,told her I needed an advantage over you...she also reminded me it might be better to let you start my seeds or better yet ask for a plant LMAO..........:0)

11/2/2003 7:07:45 PM

Md/ Usa

well you guy are forget to pumpkins that are the first really big modern ones the ford 415 and the 378 from circleville 1976 also 513 squash from fulp

11/6/2003 1:01:18 AM