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Nova Scotia

to all growers, what is our goal for growing these giants. is it not for fun and to see who can get the largest, heavest fruit and not the pretiest? genetically these beast are the same there is no strain difference only the hue which is interchangable from seed to seed. for the same seed stock has been known to grow both orange and green fruit in the same year. and if you asked a true scientist he would say they are the same species and could not call one something and the other something else because of this interchangability. so if these beast are judged on size alone as they are are then let's make one competetions and avoid they immpossible to win debate as one being a pumpkin or squash.

10/9/2003 12:30:31 PM

Brillion Wisconsin

Good point T, Apples are red and some are green. You can't call a green apple a pear just because its green.

10/9/2003 1:54:41 PM

Utah

nice thoughts... if you like squash as much as pumpkins...
it certainly would end all controversies at theweigh-offs.
but in general people do not. People like pumpkins !!!
What do people buy and carve for halloween ?
What kind of pie do people eat at Thanksgiving ?
What is the name of this web site ?
Ask any child (or adult for that matter) if they like if there is a difference and which one do they like better?
There is a difference. if you don't think so then go to bigsquash.com and bring it up there... (good luck my friend) pumpkins by defintion are orange. squash are not. so much for interchangability. you can't force them to be interchangable when everyone knows they are not.
People love pumpkins, and the main reason is because they are orange. That's why I grow pumpkins- not squash.
there are plenty of seeds out there that throw only orange. and yes there are surprizes ... but we all willingly take that risk - if you look into it you'll find that the risk varies by seed. it all started because a few growers took that risk by trying to get thicker wall and heavier fruit.
now it's just part of the game.

personally i wish they never would have done it - because now we have lots and lots of squmkins ... but it's easy to see why they did that. and it can certainly happen on accident also. so maybe it was going to happen regardless.
In my opinion, all you have to do is look at 1382 Daletas and 1262 Emmons (and lots and lots of others) and say that you don't have to take a high risk to grow big and still get orange. If someone gave me a 845 seed I'd pass it along to someone else and stick to something that I know has a higher chance of throwing orange. but many would grow it in a heart beat and take that chance. But it is a choice.

I know many other agree with you... one class for all the fruit and that's fine with me.... just remember that there are many of us that don't feel the same way.
gordon

10/9/2003 2:05:43 PM

Oz

i have what is called a squmpkin,,it must have been pollenated buy a bee/etc that visited some wild squash across the road from my patch.
or it just came out that way.
the seed came from howard dill and he says it is a pumpkin seed.
it is cream and green and orange.
it could have grown alot larger.
it grew on a pumpkin plant,,so to me it is a pumpkin.

10/9/2003 2:27:36 PM

Itzetown City

So as the rules are now, i think the "real Losers" are the growers of the true Greenies. Why not 2 classes, true orange and true green and all others will be disqualified?

10/9/2003 2:49:38 PM

Nova Scotia

g1t i like a few of the point's you make as well as boehnke in that a true green fruit and true orange fruit should be called pumpkin and squash. but then we would have to make a third distinct group of all the grey' white, ect colors. or would we have to continue like chichens in a fair and have bassically unlimited catagories? my feelings are that we should have either 3 groups or 1.

10/9/2003 3:02:23 PM

Itzetown City

An other question is, what would happen if a true Squash would beat the heaviest pumpkins world record?

10/9/2003 3:18:55 PM

Key West, FL

Mcpumpkin, the pollen will not effect the pumpkin, just the seeds in it, so it has green in it because thats the genetics that were in the seed that you grew.

10/9/2003 3:28:55 PM

I am for one group!
Martin

10/9/2003 3:34:05 PM

South Hill, Virginia

If pumpkins are orange then why are yellow or cream colored fruit judged pumpkins? :P

The offseason has begun! First we debate this, then we fight over politics through the winter and then spring comes just before we kill each other:)

10/9/2003 4:00:07 PM

Tacoma, WA

Every year we go through this same debate! Every year some people go home mad! Will it ever change?

Stan

10/9/2003 4:24:42 PM

Utah

brent -
are you completely out of your mind !!! we never argue in the off season - how did you come up with that ???
you stupid .... :P :P :P :O :(
LOL !

gordon

if it was up to me ... cream wouldn't be a pumpkin either ! as for yellow... well it's kind of orange... i think they are trying to be orange ... 1/2 way there but just haven't gotten there yet.

10/9/2003 4:29:40 PM

Itzetown City

Kill each other? Anyone want to throw pumpkins?

10/9/2003 4:32:59 PM

Nova Scotia

it was not my intention to make anyone mad. but if i did they are petty and will likely die young from high blood preasure. or something else.

10/9/2003 4:46:04 PM

Utah

in case anyone doesn't know what LOL means--- i was just kidding with Brent...

Stan... no it will never change. but i don't get as mad as i used to... so that's a "good thing" as Martha would say

10/9/2003 5:27:35 PM

Ontario

Rules are rules and there's only a handful of pumpkins out of over a 1000 pumpkins weighed in every year that are questionable . The green growers recognize the 990 hebb as the true green record and everyone else recognizes the 1367.5 Rose as the squash record. Seems to me everything is okay. Seen pictures of the rose squash and by the rules it is a squash. We grow these things knowing the rules in advance so I see no problem. The squash debate is only a minority of the growers complaining about it and to change the rules would be far more upsetting to the majority. Again there is weigh offs out there that don't have the 25 % rule so you can enter your fruit there or start your own weigh off. Pretty simple to me

drew

10/9/2003 6:02:06 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Nekoosa has the 75% green rule. So if its a squash it is a squash. We dont get very many fruit that could go both ways. Except if you count me always trying to make things difficult. Shannon

10/9/2003 6:24:18 PM

[email protected]

Oh Man! And I still have one on the vine. LOL It's gonna be a loooonnnngggg winter.

Great taste! Less filling!
Green Pumpkin! Orange Squash!

10/9/2003 8:57:19 PM

Deer Park WA

Ok, I will now quit trying to grow a true green squash, a bright orange pumpkin, and just grow something really big...

10/10/2003 12:30:57 AM

Arnprior, Ontario

1367 a squash? Say there were 700 seeds in that 1367 and you were to grow them all - how many squash would you harvest at the end of the season? Any???
Like Drew says the number of questionable fruit every season is small - that is why the solution is sooooo easy. The true squash are obviuos - the others that are turning green in the canteloping are not squash. All they need to do at the weighoffs with these ones is ask the grower - "what color was it at 20 or 30 days of age" if the answer is not green then it is a pumpkin. Surely we as growers could make this work. Would settle all the diputes and strenthen the gene pool enormously. If a new grower wanted to grow a squash and selected Rose 1367, Mombert 1064 or Calai 1056 - expecting something green they would most certanly be dissapointed. Can not fault the judges at the weighoffs - they are following the rules laid out - it is just that the rules are wrong. Glenn

10/10/2003 1:19:37 AM

Ljubljana, Slovenia

There are many pumpkins that are not even AGs so to avoid additional confusion every AG should be a pumpkin regardless of the color. You may call a green one a squash but it is still a pumpkin. By the way where the name squash originates from? I wildly guess it is an Indian name for a pumpkin but nowadays it means something else. Moreover in Slovenia we only grow pumpkins because we have no word for green pumpkins. As far as I know there in no such word in other European languages too.
I am aware that in general it is more difficult to grow green ones because they have more recessive genes so they should have a special category at the weight-off. In my opinion a blue-green pumpkin (squash) may be even more beautiful than an orange one so it may win the most beautiful competition too.
By the way my 821 Garell is 100% squash.
Jernej

10/10/2003 10:08:52 AM

North Ga

urban jungle, I beg to differ, but I think a pumpkin is a squash and both are from the gourd family.

10/10/2003 10:37:39 AM

North Ga

Sorry, that's Adam and Eve Gourd! LOL

10/10/2003 10:41:29 AM

ontario

I agree with Drew and Glenn.......

10/10/2003 10:52:51 AM

ontario

Just looking at Shannons post...if a pumpkin has to be 75% pumpkin why would a Squash not have to be 75% green.......????....never looked at it that way before......well said Shannon.....

10/10/2003 10:57:16 AM

Montoursville, PA

Next year by gollies I want a big fat warty ugly hog with a touch of of green at the blossom end and a touch of orange at the stem with muddy cream, to yellow, over or under all.

I won't be to picky if the sucker finishes around 1500 lbs.
When it comes to pass and review time I shall call it the most beautiful ugly pumpkin I've ever seen.

10/10/2003 11:01:02 AM

Choctaw, OK

Technically....Atlantic Giant's are giant squash (soft stems) as regular pumpkins have hard stems. Atleast that is what i was told once and it makes sense to me.

Our weighoff, has a local rule of 75% green color or more is a squash. There were some fruit near this mark, but were all ruled pumpkins. The under lying color was yellow, pink, cream, etc.

Personally, the 990 Hebb is what i recognize as the World Record Greenie.

Case

10/10/2003 10:18:43 PM

[email protected]

Case just made a very important point folks. So did Wayne.

10/11/2003 7:46:56 AM

Usa

If you put green pumpkins/squash and orange pumpkins for sale at the same store do you really think that the people would only purchase the orange? I think that they would purchase both. I also think people like change. I know people loved my green ones I grew last year ((from Big Max seeds no less.)) We just don't give people the choice of what they can purchase.

10/18/2003 1:01:41 PM