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Stouffville

what is the accepted name for this kind of cross? I know Nic gave a talk on it at the growers conference a couple of years ago.

examples are:
869.5 calai (2/3 801.5 stelts, 1/3 876 lloyd)
805 pukos (2/3 935 lloyd, 1/3 865 mettler)
940 mombert (2/3 567.5 mombert, 1/3 734 ciliberto)

10/6/2003 10:01:10 AM

Utah

cross back ?

I see what you are tring to say but need to point out that there are no thirds. there are 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents... etc ...
for example:
the 940 Mombert (866 Mombert x 567.5 Mombert)
....... and the 866 Mombert (567.5 Mombert x 734 Ciliberto)
i guess you could say that the 940 is 3/4 567.5 and 1/4 734 but there is more than one way that could happen, so personally i wouldn't say it that way, i would say it like it is written above. make sense ?

10/6/2003 10:40:42 AM

Stouffville

remember to make the 940 mombert, Kirk only needed 2 567.5 seeds and 1 734 seed, and of course two years. that's how i got the 2/3 1/3 thing from. So crossback is the accepted term for this kind of cross?

10/6/2003 10:49:05 AM

there is no thirds LOL

10/6/2003 11:12:36 AM

Stouffville

pumpkins are not like normally behaving humans, the thirds arrive from the fact that seeds from the same pumpkin can be used in different generations of breeding. Kirk didn't need three 567.5 seeds to make the 940 mombert. in the spring of '96 he could have held in one hand the three seeds (2 567.5's!! and the single 734) whose genetics got combined to form the 940 mombert.

In any case the confusion here comes because it's sort of like what happened in 'Deliverance' to make the banjo boy. If you and your mom have a boy, is he your brother or son?

10/6/2003 11:26:54 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

I did hear a couple of terms the other day relating to this,
if you crossback for a second generation (869.5 Calai x 801.5 Stelts)it is known as Squared and if you crossback that seed to the 801.5 again it would be known as cubed.
sounds cool.

10/6/2003 12:00:53 PM

Utah

i understand where you got the 1/3 and 2/3 ...
all i am saying is... i don't think that is a clear way to state what you have, especially in genetic terms.
sorry never saw Deliverance- but banjo boy -call him son or brother- it doesn't matter- 1/2 his genetics came from a female and 1/2 came from a male.

anyway... i have heard the term cross back used to discribe what you are talking about.

10/6/2003 1:13:28 PM

Utah

brigitte is you making fun of me ?

10/6/2003 1:15:38 PM

Stouffville

I know my way wasn't clear that's why I was asking. crossback is more suggestive as to what actually is done in this breeding method. Is that the term that is used on aggc? I'm gonna join that site once I get my pumpkins weighed this year.

P.S. What's the biggest fruit that the 567.5 mombert grew?

10/6/2003 1:21:06 PM

Stouffville

I assume she was making fun of me

10/6/2003 1:27:43 PM

i'm so confused. i'm a visual learner - I need a family tree to understand what the hell's going on.

10/6/2003 2:05:47 PM

Stouffville

look up the 940 (98) mombert Brigitte

10/6/2003 2:51:31 PM

Stouffville

Is the biggest 567.5 offspring a 945? if that's the case, isn't it interesting that when you throw some 734 genes into the mix you can end up with a 1262 and if you cross this 567.5/734 jumble with say another proven thousand pound producer you could end up with, say, 1458 for arguments sake. Anybody with info on genetics please comment on this phenomena. The last biology course I took was OAC (grade 13) biology so I really don't know how this size increase would happen.

10/6/2003 3:56:09 PM