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Sparta, NC

I was wondering if the AG's are patented and is that why they can't be sold? If so when will it expire?

8/27/2003 5:06:06 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

site search plenty of discussions on this one...yes they are patented and that will expire shortly.

8/27/2003 5:12:09 PM

[email protected]

AG SEEDS are PVP protected until June 2004 by Howard Dill. They can be sold with his permission.

The debate as to whether the patent protection would hold up in court may wage on forever. But there isn't enough money in the seeds to justify a real court challenge.

Fruit grown from his seeds are fair game & can be sold to anyone at anytime.

If you do a search you may find the link to the actual patent that was posted here this winter. Not the most lively read though. LOL

Steve

8/27/2003 6:05:34 PM

Commack, NY

Now i dont plan on selling any seeds (no one would buy them anyway! LOL), but as i read this (ive mentioned this before) i wonder if seeds from pumpkins that were grown before 2004 could be sold when the pvp expires, or if anything is fair game.........any lawyers out there?
Scott

8/27/2003 6:11:40 PM

Tacoma, WA

As I read it, all seeds can be sold by anyone. An expired patent is just that. When a drug patent expires, other manufactures can release their premade "copies" or generic
copies.

Stan

8/27/2003 8:13:36 PM

[email protected]

Drug companies are also quite often the Pesticide companies (Bayer, Monsanto, Aventis, Syngenta, etc). When their patents expire they sometimes turn around & supply the "aftermarket" with "original formulation" quality material to maintain marketshare. Then they'll introduce a new & improved formulation to maintain margins. Remember Round-Up Original? It sold for $120/gallon when first introdcued. Today I sell 2.5 gallon jugs for less than that. But there are also another 3 formulations from Monsanto & dozens of off patent knock-offs of the original.

Has anyone heard if Howard has a "Dill 2" pending ?

8/27/2003 8:40:35 PM

Hey you guy's with all the great ideas, let's tell it like it is, Howard Dill has a patent which was respected by some, abused by others, some respected big hitters included, they know who and live with it, then there are the one's that just want fun that appreciate seed from Dill's at affortable prices, In my option that will end next year & anyone on resticted income will not be able to compete on even plain because seed won't be traded, given freely to new grower(unless its ???? ) so that only leaves paying. Example for me to get a 723 that grew my personal best was going to cost $500 US . I'm sorry to say, but I think this sport is being removed from general public & exclusive to the better off after June 2004. Sorry to see but I guess that's progress which us old guy's dislike.

8/27/2003 8:49:20 PM

Nova Scotia

myself i will be giving away 1/2 of my seeds from my pumpkins on ther first seasons (good and new growers alike). then next season if they do all right (after patent) i'll sell for modest prices. i average $1200.00 investment yearly for one pumpkin and would do more if i could. so a little money back would be nice (not for profit just to cover some of the coasts.) i hpoe this does not make me an evil man in peoples eyes.

8/28/2003 9:04:43 AM

Deer Park, WI

People need not get their undies in a bundle about paying for seeds. Listen up folks, you dont need to buy a seed to grow a big pumpkin. All that money does is buy you a sense of security. Poppy- you and the majority of posters on this board have enough 1000+ potential seeds in your collections to last 10 lifetimes. Dills and P & P will still offer top line seeds for relatively decent prices. Hundreds of growers (including myself) will still freely offer seeds to newbs and old timers alike. Then you got this great place, offering FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE seeds. Dont look so negatively at the situation. If a grower decides to sell his seeds, good for him. Maybe he's recouping some of the money well spent on generating that cross. Im in favor of seed commerce. Why? Cuz i know it will not destroy our seed sharing community. If people want to pay, good for them. ITs not my money. News flash folks...you dont need a 723 and $500 to grow a 1000lber. There are literally 1000's of seeds out there with potential to do at least as well, probably even better, than that seed.

8/28/2003 9:05:28 AM

Brillion Wisconsin

I think not much will change after the patent expires. There still will be free seeds and friendly growers giving their seeds away. There will be be companies selling seeds as there is today, maybe a few more.

When I started this sport I had no seeds to trade and I did'nt know any growers. The choice to purchase some seeds to get started had to be made. I think I payed 6 dollars for 8 seeds. Last year I sent in for free seeds, was given some at the weigh off and bought some too. I don't think there is anything wrong with someone paying for seeds.


Poppy I see your point, but there is not any guarantee that the more you money you spend the bigger the pumpkin you will get. I will say that your odds are better with a proven performer. There are just too many varriables in this sport to say that an expensive seed will produce a 1000 lber. Thanks just my 2 cents worth.......Dean o

8/28/2003 9:30:08 AM

Utah

Poppy

Certainly some will go into the selling seed business.
I think some ( hopefully a small few )have been "collecting" (should i say hoarding) seeds for this very purpose.

I think there will alway be enough good quality seeds to go around. and most growers including most of the heavy hitters will still freely give away their seed. why- because thats just the type of people they are.

The super hot seeds might be harder to get... but aren't they hard to get now ? ... why are they super hot ? because a few growers grew some really big fruit. then they became hot... before then they were fairly easily obtained. I think the reason hot seeds are harder to get is that there are a lot more growers than ever before-
we can see it now.... all the top grower's seeds go fast. and instead of getting 3-5 seeds you get 1 or maybe 2 seeds. the seeds are out there they are just hard to find.
and it can be very tough on top growers, who are nice, to have 500 bubble packs so up at their house when they only have 400 seeds from their best pumpkin.
so people are leaning toward creating their own smaller networks and just deal with in them. it is to difficult to network with all of todays growers. this will develop a tiered system - new growers will still get good seed - not top notch seeds- from the middle tier growers- where there is more than enough seeds to go around.
and middle tier grower will get a lot of other middle tier seeds and top seeds from top tier growers in their net work...
top tier growers will, rightfully so, be able to get any seed they want because they will have the net work to do so ... because they will give their own top notch seeds in return.
but once a seed becomes super hot... i can see the $$$ entering the system... but it's pretty much that way now.

well sorry to ramble on ... but that's my thoughts ...
gordon

8/28/2003 9:45:43 AM

Montoursville, PA

Competition is a great equalizer. Free enterprize normally produces fierce competion. I grow heritage tomatoes where in seed can be saved year to year and shared freely. I also grow the most expensive commercially available tomato seed.

For the sake of convince and use of less time I purchase all seed.

As this sport or hobby grows I think a professional division will emerge while most of us will continue as we do today having fun with them for any reason and to various extents.

It will be the generation of serious prize moneys and general public interest that will move this hobby forward.
Chucking Pumpkins I believe would remain a kooky fun thing that it is today.

When people pay to watch anything while spending five bucks for a beer there will be exciting money on the table.

Before any activity becomes profitable the masses have to be involved to create the need for growth. Before a top grower can make real bucks a percentage of the masses have to want the knowledge and seed that he has....enough to pay substantial bucks for them.

Today we have one author into his third book, several state weigh-off sites, several patch tours, several subjective web sites, a group of unorganized folks called heavy hitters so named by the author of a book and one seminar like activity. There is no really consistent unified movement that is bringing it all together. The hobby is some splinted. This is the usual and normal condition of a new and growing activity.

Every thing evolves and will continue to evolve. There will be room for all.....just like in any given other sport. All will continue to enjoy. A few, very few, will begin to make the big bucks. A few will remain negative because that is their nature.

8/28/2003 10:15:51 AM

Key West, FL

I will NEVER sell seeds, and never trade with those that do.

8/28/2003 2:50:45 PM

Key West, FL

I was thinking about this some more, could you legally sell someone else's seed? If someone had my 1338 Bortner could they sell it?

8/28/2003 4:02:10 PM

Tacoma, WA

Yes!!

8/28/2003 4:24:56 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

I would never sale any of my seeds nor will I ever pay for seeds to any other grower. The only way I would ever pay for any seeds is to a Association that is raising money for there next year weigh off. I think if growers start asking money for any or all the seeds, a good thing that is here now, will get way out of control.
PumpkinBrat

8/28/2003 6:34:07 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

Futher more, If grower ask for money and can sell the best seeds, what's going to happen to all these weigh-off site who can't raise any money for the following years weigh offs? If Associations can't make money to have weigh-off's what good would it be to have a 1,500 pound pumpkin and you have to travel 1,000 miles to get to only one or two weigh-off sites left in years to come? Just my two cents

8/28/2003 6:37:38 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

Futher more, If grower ask for money and can sell the best seeds, what's going to happen to all these weigh-off site who can't raise any money for the following years weigh offs? If Associations can't make money to have weigh-off's what good would it be to have a 1,500 pound pumpkin and you have to travel 1,000 miles to get to only one or two weigh-off sites left in years to come? Just my two cents

8/28/2003 6:37:39 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

You know this is still a hobby to me and I enjoy it to no end. There are plenty of commercial growers out there that make a living outta growing pumpkins....If they sell the pumpkin or the seed what's the difference...Maybe they'll change rules for professional and amateur growers...I doubt it but if it comes to that imagine the time when the amatuer beats the pros...Lake Placid all over...I would like to think that clubs and weigh off sites will still be the enjoyment spots for everyone...and that the kids faces when seeing a big pumpkin will never change...My seeds are free to anyone who wants em and look forward to sending them to John and Ken at the end of the year if they'll take em...Grow em Big Guys and Girls...Que Sera Sera

8/28/2003 8:11:41 PM

[email protected]

I'm with the free seed crowd too. And no. You can't sell someone elses seed either. (Though that's kinda silly considering we CAN sell a whole pumpkin!?!?!?)

Remember ebay?

8/28/2003 9:07:19 PM

New Brunswick

I have a neighbour that was given (supposedly) seeds from a 600 pound pumpkin form a so called friend...well...I went down to his patch and guess what....he had the nicest crop of "Pie" pumpkins...either green or turning orange! Apparently the "friend" had a good laugh at my neighbours expense. I told him he could have some of my seeds next year. True, mine will be from pumpkins weighing 200 to 400 pounds (if I'm lucky) but he is more than welcome to them. I think that is such a dirty trick that guy pulled. I told his wife to take one of my pumpkins over to show him later this fall, and let on he grew it! Miserable so and so...

8/28/2003 10:14:11 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

I have 21 pumpkins going this year that are being grown simply for the crosses and resulting seed. Crossbacks, "purification" crosses, color crosses, selfs, sibbs, sibbs x sibbs, sibbs x selfs same lineage, 2nd generation selfs crossed with other 2nd generation selfs, etc. etc. etc. They should be shared...

Free to anyone who cares this Fall..I know half the folks in my town are gonna get some whether they want 'em or not :0)

8/28/2003 10:32:18 PM

Usa

I really enjoyed growing the seeds that I received from the site and from the kind people I received seeds from.
Thank you for the seeds I appreciated them.
I don't have to have the a $500 seed to grow pumpkins.
I know that I can grow the same quality pumpkins and big pumpkins from the seeds I received.
I also know I will enjoy growing the seeds that are available to me. I don't need the hardest to get seeds to enjoy growing pumpkins or squash.
I would be terrified to spend even $100 on a seed for fear of losing the seed or plant. That would take all of the enjoyment out of growing and experimenting with growing pumpkins.
I figure a few years of learning and I will be growing bigger pumpkins.
For me this is a gardening hobby and is for enjoyment.
I won't be purchasing any seeds unless they are from a club auction, the site, or from the dills, etc..

8/29/2003 2:00:01 AM

Oz

ahem,
if i ever make a monster from all the huge amounts of knowledge and labor and $$$,,then cheers to all
i will share,and i will sell.
this giant thang has cost me dollars.
all the cheap iraqi "gas" ive been buying to go to my patch has sucked my steak dinners into burger brunches.
-
when i ordered the seeds,
i talked to howards wonderful daughter for way too long!$!
the phone call cost $30!
the man grows some fine daughter also!
so i want that $30 back.
to do that i have to reap from what i sow.
-
if i grow the top dawg pumpkin.
then the seed become like currency.
like stamps,cars,tractors,gems,bacon,etc,.
-
say one day ,,,
a madmans lab created blight wipes out many food crops.
the seed stored and kept by "amature" and "pro" seed banks would become worth more than oil.

all scarey stuff aside,
sell means trade means sell
as ive been taught.

what has to be kept right is fair trade.
-
i propose a value system,,,,the biggest,,sets the top dollar.
total(maybe a preset total) number of seed in biggest pumpkin times or divded by the weight,,,the current rate used as a mirror to develope retail/wholesale/nosale limited distrabution,value markers.any economists out there?

if someone makes the right gene match and refinement,,like the pumpkin king did last year,,,then they have created value in many ways.

they/we may one day produce tough rich ripe tastey super giants. 2000 lbs!
with seeds bigger than your fist!!lol
just a shot says tremor!lol
-
maybe multiple main roots "grafted" together
(can u do that?)
-
bug proof/fungi proof,,,
giants that grow short season.in the desert or the jungle,,or the yukon....
with dozens of pumpkins per vine.
super giants that would be high in nutrients
-
if you donated say,,
,%10 of your giant seed sale proceeds to ,,
,needy pumpkin growers(pumpkin growing kit-ferts,etc),,
or poor people or kids,, or god,
then it is good money.
AND WE AL

8/29/2003 4:03:03 AM

Oz

correction,,,PUMPKIN KING AND QUEEN...

8/29/2003 4:07:47 AM