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colorado

Hi all, I was wondering, if say you selfed a pumpkin this year, and then maybe froze pollen and say the frozen pollen was good next year and a fruit set from it would this be the most "pure" pollination a grower could come up with, or would it be more "pure" to grow another seed and sibb pollinate them? Thanks to all in advance for your input, Steve

7/18/2003 6:16:06 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Why freeze the pollen when you can keep the plant alive until next year? I beleive this is what cloning has in mind. Shannon

7/18/2003 6:30:37 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

This sounds like a question for Welty or Ailts or the madman. but let me see as I under stand it. A selfed pumpkin does not inherit or alter any genetic factors that aren't already inherent in the plant. And since each grain of pollen and each egg have their own particular traits each seed is different. Thereby only selecting the best plants with the best traits in successive years will the traits you like the most become more and more evident. so you would have to grow all 500 seeds...pick the best 50 plants grow their seeds...all 2500 pick the best 50 grow all those seeds and eventually after years could somewhat expect that they would have a tendency to grow that type of fruit...but recessive genes are always a factor!! It's sorta like saying 50% of the bobier 845 (not fact just example) throw 700 plus fruit...what the other 50% do! and after a hit like that all the best growers get in so the chance of having 700 lbs is even better then 50% and that tends to bulk up the stats. When you only have room for one plant people like those odds and after a year of hard work they are better then having a seed thats never been grown before, but not saying a 225 won't grow the next big one! or that the runt culled from the 2500 plants didn't have the seed you were looking for in the first year!!! LOL

7/18/2003 6:49:26 PM

colorado

Thanks so far!!! Keep the replies coming, follow up question on Genetics of specific seeds, we all know what the 723 and 845 Bobier have produced the magical 935 x 865 cross that Bill Bobier created in 1999 and 2000, also created the same cross in 2002, wonder how they will do, anyhow, I was wondering, say you take a 3rd generation of selfing 935 Lloyd and crossed it with a 3rd generation of a selfed 865 mettler, would this make the cross better, or would so many generations of selfing be harmful????

7/18/2003 8:09:07 PM

Utah

steveman-
i think in general a 3rd generation 935 crossed with a 3rd generation 865 would be a little less like to be as good as a 1st generation of each.
I look at it from a genetics and statics point of view. use humans and sports as an example ... say you want a great basketball player... do you have better odds with Michael Jordans kids or great grand kids ? what are the chances that all his kids will be really great also...
pick a % ... any percent will do (except 100%) lets say 75%. then 25% will not be good and when they grow up and have kids... the odd that they will be really good is even lower say 50% ... so i think over all the odds go down with each generation... but they can immidiatly go back up with a proven winner... say michael has one son that is really good.... then the odd of his kids will go back up...

7/19/2003 12:09:13 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Steve,
A selfed seed is 50% pure.X5 generations = 97%.
A sibbed seed is 25% pure.X5 generations = 67%.
A crossback is 25% pure.

source An introduction to practical animal breeding by Clive Dalton.

X5 generations of crossing back to the original male using frozen pollen must be more pure than using pollen from a differant plant of the same seed each year but man that's to complicated for me to work out!

7/19/2003 2:46:07 AM