From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Usa

In California it's going to start costing $100 for a license to save your own seeds. At least that's what someone read in DH's countryside magazine (jan-feb. 2003 pg. 72)fines range from $1000 for home gardeners to $250,000.00 for nurseries but only if the seeds don't comply with the usda noxious weeds program (docket no. 01-034-1) I don't know anything about this however I thought I should pass along to all of you in california. here's the source they listed for more information: Regulatory Analysis and Development Docket No. 01034-1
Included in this same article was information that in Salem, Oregon there's an ordinance regulating the size of backyard gardens to no more than a few hundred feet. I haven't checked either one of these facts out completely, just thought that they may directly affect some of you and you might want to check into it.
Any of you backyard gardeners in Oregon?

6/19/2003 1:01:30 AM

[email protected]

Darn left coast, left wing liberals will figure out new ways to steal money from the working class any way they can. Penalyies for saving seeds!?!? What next? Tax the air we breath? How about a tax on exhaled air? Hang a little air flow meter around every Californians neck? Dang liberal wackos will steal money under the guise of environmental protection every chance they get. If they'd stop paying drug addicts to hang out all unemployed in San Fransisco parks harassing the working class, maybe they wouldn't need all the money they steal from contributing members of society. JEEZ! Time for another pot of coffee. - Steve

6/19/2003 7:49:03 AM

Chico, Ca

Thank god we have the Rockies in the way to slow down the move westward of ignorant eastcoast people that hear something and instantly sterotype Californians. Thanks Tremor, I now can see that all east coasters are rude and inconsiderate. Oh by the way Tremor, California is the fifth largest economy in the world. Theres a very good chance that a large percentage of the components in your
computer that you are spewing from was made in this state. The county I live in is bigger than your puny piss-ant state. Maybe they should tax the toxic pollutors, that are poisoning the environment.... lets start with the pesticide and fertilizer industry...

Robert

6/19/2003 9:54:14 AM

Utah

fight ! fight ! fight !!!
... I sugest we break it up now before the principle shows.
:)

6/19/2003 10:11:11 AM

Mineral Virginia

Am I reading this right? You will have to pay the state of California to simply keep your own seeds from vegetables?

Does the license cover all your seeds, or do you have to declare which ones you are going to keep?

Robert what's up? HOW the decision is made aside, don't you see something wrong with this?

6/19/2003 11:19:32 AM

Chico, Ca

Hey funnydad having not even heard of this magazine and not having the oppertunity to read the article in question, all I can say is that it sounds like some B.S. to me! I have not heard of any law on this...probably some special interest protecting their turf. Could be just a proposed ordinance that has not/will not ever clear the assembly. looks like they might be going after people who sell seed that dont clean out the undesirable weeds... With a 30 Billion $ deficit this year in calif. who would be around to enforce it.

G1t I did not start the exchange, but I feel it necessary to respond to such an emptyheaded Ignorant made towards us out in the west. I might engage in friendly bantar, but I do not make stereotypical attacks on anyone. Last time I was in Frisco there were no drug addicts shaking me down for anything. Corporate greed in the stock market and the Texas/republican energy consorsium are stealing our money for those out there smart enough to pay attention.

protecting the environment pays dividends. If we wrecklessly abuse our planet in the short term then we all die. We have no option to leave elsewhere.

6/19/2003 11:54:07 AM

and how to they plan on catching people not following the law??? the cops don't pull over every person to make sure they're wearing a seat belt. same concept.

6/19/2003 12:36:57 PM

Utah

Bobert...
who's making empty headed sterotypical attacks now ?

(since i don't know anyone from texas on the list- and since i use gas and oil in my car -i felt it is my obigation to stand up for them)
do you really think anyone on the plant, except the canadians of course, is for wrecklessly abusing the planet ???

sounds like Steve pegged you right.

and one last thing... if you're going to drag me into this could you please use me proper handle.
g1t... all small letters. thanks

just defending myself and my fellow "we're for dirty air and water if we can get make more money" republicans.
gordon
a proud founding member of the vast right wing conspiracy
:)

6/19/2003 1:52:01 PM

Utah

of course I'm just kidding about the Canadians. in case anyone one was going to email me....
have a good weekend. I'd love to stay and chat but I have tomorrow off- got lots of weeding to do.

6/19/2003 1:54:17 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

All right Kids read further in to the first post "USDA NOXIOUS WEEDS". Vegetables don't fall under this category. Now say you were trying to sell something under this list, like purple loosestrife. Your butt would receive a fine, just as it is in any other of the 50 states.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/permits/fnwsbycat-e.PDF

What is it winter already?

6/19/2003 6:14:52 PM

Chico, Ca

Thanks Rainydays for your help in understanding this thread.
I saw the noxious weed part so I was not concerned. it is very interesting thread.

I Apologize to g1t, did not realize the cap letter thing was going to stop the world turning for you. Also you dragged yourself into it not me with your fight, fight ,fight remarks. If you want to stay out of things try keeping your mouth shut. I am not a liberal at all, but that does not immediately make me a conservative. You republicans should do yourself a favor and read STUPID WHITE MEN by Micheal Moore and get enlightend.

To the rest of the BP crowd, sorry this came up. I have always tried to keep my personal political,religious views of this site. I did not draw first blood. I only come here to talk about pumpkins. Appearently other cant.

I am done now. Robert

6/19/2003 9:00:05 PM

Montoursville, PA

For goodness sakes...This is good! Watch it or Ken and John may start taxing lurkers for lurking. ]:o)

6/19/2003 9:49:23 PM

[email protected]

Woops! Looks like I struck a nerve. It wasn't my intention to offend but rather amuse. But stay tuned. This could be very amusing now.

Now that I'm being attacked personally, I'll just cheat to save my butt by stating some facts. That usually hurts.

Anyone who feels enlightened by words of Michael Moore is proably also getting light headed by something else. Just my opinion here though.

Conratulations Robert, on having the largest US state economy. Given it's size though, that might very well be expected. Indeed it would be rather hard to avoid unless everyone was living in poverty. But that's not the case is it?

California per capita income in 2002 $32,996.00
Connecticut per capita income for 2002 $42,706.00

Personally I paid more than that in taxes last year so I suppose Michael Moore would just love to see me move west of those idiot blocking Rockies so's to spread it around some more right?

To make the argument even stronger for California's liberal fiscal policy management (sic), perhaps we should look to the US State Estimates for People of all Ages in Poverty (1999 most recent available).

California Averaged Estimate = 13.7%
Connecticut Averaged estimate= 7.5%

Sure looks like liberal Democrats have these things all worked out for the benefit of the masses all right. And with all those choice high tech manufacturing jobs too!

I'll keep my Republican Governor & President Thanks.

All these dirty little facts provided by the US Census Bureau.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/saipe/stcty/a99_00.htm

Let the fun start. This could be very amusing now.

Steve

6/19/2003 10:38:14 PM

North Ga

I'm laughing my ass off!!

6/19/2003 10:53:41 PM

South Hill, Virginia

Hmmmm....Michael Moore....I think I'll pass.

6/19/2003 11:37:48 PM

South Hill, Virginia

Hey Steve,

Not bad for a puny piss ant state:)

6/19/2003 11:45:48 PM

In the shade - PDX, OR

LOL Doc.


This is a "winter type" thread isn't it?

6/20/2003 12:43:39 AM

North Ga

I'm only an observer doc

6/20/2003 12:48:17 AM

Usa

Boy this thread got off track. I mainly wanted to find out about Oregon and back yard gardeners.

But, since the subject came up (Steve for your amusement):

We can get rid of the President in the next election. He did not win by popular vote, he won by cheating and his brother closing down polling sites in Florida and his brother losing ballets in Florida. Nice respectable Republican family the Bush's; feuding with Iraq family. It doesn't bother the Bush family that other families are losing family members as long as the Bush family wins the feud. There were no chemical weapons found. It is a third world country we should have kept our nose out of. I really feel for all of our troops having to be there. I support the troops, but, I do not support Bush.

Continued:

6/20/2003 1:29:36 AM

Usa

Steve continued for your amusement:

Are you bragging about what you made last year? It sounds like a typical Republican remark. “I paid more than that in taxes last year.” That is why you like Bush because he is all for the rich and lowering the rich persons taxes. He isn’t helping the poor; the unemployment rate is higher than it has been for years. I could go on but he’s REALLY not worth it.

The way you keep bringing up drug addicts and accusing people of it makes me wonder. As a rule generally the person that boasts the most, accuses the hardest, or denies the most is usually the guilty one. Or maybe it is just all the chemicals you are exposed to.
By the way you spell it “probably” not “proably”. And g1t you have a few misspelled words also. Are you around Steve and his chemicals? Just my opinion here though.

“All these dirty little facts provided by the US Census Bureau.” Who really believes them??? I have always not given any information to them when they appeared at my door. My next door neighbor did the same. So how accurate are their figures? There are ways to get around the government finding out anything about your personal information and your financial information.

Isn’t it nice that America is a free speech Country? We all have a right to our own beliefs and a right to speech.

6/20/2003 1:30:17 AM

porterville,california usa

speaking of taxing air, in a gvm`t survey last month, the great san joaquin valley was ranked #1 in air quality in the nation. #1 is the worst, not the best. most toxic to breath, most dangerous ozone level, most of everything bad. worse than L.A. detroit ny pittsburg anywhere. it`s killing our agriculture which is 2nd to none in the entire world. calif alone produces more food than any country in this world. they blame the smog on vehicles. this is rural country. there is no extreme traffic here. it doesn`t come from cars.the truth is it comes from those huge corporate farming investment companys. THEY are after the fast buck reguardless of how it hurts the area. rape the ground `til it`s totally useless. pump it full of chemicals to grow, not grow, defoliate, sterilize, kill off all life. their lobbists "ARRANGE" deals with politians for our water. they get water donated to them that was earmarked for LA municipalities. LA would pay huge sums for this water they really need. instead these guys get it free to flood miles and miles of cotton.many farms are 30 miles square and stretch for hundreds of miles. when it runs off the other side it`s full of every poison they put on the crops during the year. then they sell it to LA for a huge profit to drink. the western valley was undisturbed for centuries. these rapists leave barren, very heavily polluted dirt in their wake. nothing will grow on it anymore when they leave it.hundreds of miles of dirt waiting for the weakest wind to come along. when it does, dust takes with it the chemicals they applied. this poison dust blows eastward covering the cities and us. our sky is brown. big money has bought our air and polluted it then blamed it on non-existent vehicle traffic. our asshole idiot governor got his share of that money i`m sure. along with our budget surplus he started his term with.

6/20/2003 4:29:43 AM

Pulaski Tn [email protected]

please stay on the subject ok.i dont like it when people get off subject ok. unless its me of course.....ok i blkcloud want you to stay on subject..ok

6/20/2003 8:42:41 AM

Garden State Pumpkins

Poor Dog!

6/20/2003 8:44:40 AM

South Hill, Virginia

Oh no, conspiracy at the Census Bureau! I guess President Bush is behind that too. Of course the figures Steve used are from the 1999 census when George Bush wasn't the president but let's not let the facts get in the way.

No one denies that President Bush did not win the popular vote. But since the 1800's we have operated under the electoral college. You probably have heard of it since you have been voting under that system your entire life.

There's lots of rich Democrats too AZ. Nothing wrong with it, good for them. I'm a middle class republican and I'm not sure how you want me to feel about it? Should I feel guilty because I'm not poor or bitter because I'm not rich?

6/20/2003 10:16:35 AM

Knopp, Germany

You are too rich, svRICHb..lol

6/20/2003 10:27:06 AM

[email protected]

Message board Chaos Theory at it's finest here that's for sure. Please don't take this personally. I'm in sales. As such, I cannot be offended. I pity those who take offense to idle chatter & the expression of honest political opinion. I debate for sport. And I'm way too candid for my own good. So if someone does take these things personally, please do not be offended. I'm grinning ear to ear. For me it's fun.

This should really be on the "off topic board". My appologies for taking this so far off topic.

Robert, CA is on the upwind side of the trade winds. CT has some of the most stringent polution laws in the country. To it's credit, CA's are most impressive (albeit anal at times). Our air here is poor primarly because most of the airborne polutants generated in the US eventually arrive here via the trade winds. In our case the primary contributors include Ohio, PA, & NY. Not exactly rocket science. Looks like the Rockies are good for more than just blocking " the westward migration of idiot east coast people"!

AZ, Sorry about the train wreck I caused on your thread.

Spelling? Not significantly relevant on a public message board in my opinion. It's not a spelling contest. I will try to improve.

continued

6/20/2003 11:37:59 AM

[email protected]

Most Americans work the first 4.5 months every year for free!
I'm not boasting about income. I'm griping about taxes. GWB is no saint to tax breaks regardless of popular opinion. He's much closer to center on this subject than I'd like to see him. But Democrats are about 1000% worse in my opinion. If we combine all income, property, & sales tax the government collects from us, that's just the way it is. I'm not rich. Being in the top 10% (nationally) of income earners doesn't make anyone rich in this part of the country. My son's day care alone costs $800 per month. Over the past 6 years my wife & I figure we've shelled out $58,000. $800 is probably a mortgage payment for many Americans.
Believe me, cost of living to income ratios are very relevant to this argument.

If there are more Americans out of work (and there aren't very many), it's because we're in a regularly scheduled economic downturn that started in October of 1999 (look it up, that's when I bailed ;o). That was a full 2 years before GWB's economic policy planned budget took effect & several months before he legally won the election (see Article II, section 1 of the US Constitution for dtails on the electoral college). GWB is legal. Popular vote is not how we elect the president. If folks don't like it, they're free to lobby their representatives for change. I couldn't care less either way.

This economic downturn was long over due. DotCom stocks kept hopes too high too long. Wall Street opinion here. Not Hollywood's. Nuff said.

Sincerest applogies to those offended. But honestly, toughen up a little huh? :o)

Steve

6/20/2003 11:38:19 AM

South Hill, Virginia

Let us not forget the most important thing that comes out of Connecticut......BigPumpkins.com :)

6/20/2003 11:54:05 AM

Pulaski Tn [email protected]

If I started a pumpkin on my farm and 3/4 of the way through the season I sold my farm and the new owner cut the pumpkin and took it to the fair he would get all the credit for growing a fine pumpkin..well clinton got all the credit for what bush #1 set in place.now bush #2 is getting all the credit for all the shit clinton set in place..and if you don’t believe this you got to be plum local..(that’s a old saying this man I know says all the time when he really means to say completely loco…)

6/20/2003 12:00:45 PM

Usa

Wow some people do take offense to debate.

I have been registered Republican for years.
That doesn't mean anything. If a democrat is a better person for the job I'll vote for him/her.
Arizona is a Republican state.
What the heck I think I'll register Democrat this year.
Gee is that what it's called is an electoral college. I knew that and a lot more. And I have been voting all of my life. That gives me the right to voice my opinion.

I don't have anything against rich people. My aunt is probably richer than most of you. Good for you. You either worked real hard for it or it was given to you. You can be rich with more than money. Why should you feel guilty for being rich svrichb. Are you doing something illegal?

Me I'm regular ol' poor american and proud of it. I'm rich in other ways.


blkcloud - Very true

6/20/2003 12:27:04 PM

Pulaski Tn [email protected]

thanky.....

6/20/2003 12:52:27 PM

Western Pa.

Monica L. said she will be voting Republican this year, seems the Democrats left a "bad taste in her mouth"!

6/20/2003 1:56:18 PM

Pulaski Tn [email protected]

tremor...you pay 800.00 a month for daycare.....my wife ran a state lic. daycare for 6 years and we charged more than anyone around and stayed full all the time..$65.00 per week....

6/20/2003 2:06:04 PM

Mineral Virginia

yeah cloud, but them thar matha vinyurd types is to good for roadkill lunches. they dont know the finer points of cuntry cost cuttin.

6/20/2003 2:54:26 PM

[email protected]

Dang Cloud! Can't git yer truk detailed fer dat here boy!

OK. So it's a semi-private school with transportation. You caught me. LOL

I gotta move to you lovely state! Sell this box & live like a Millionaire!

Steve

6/20/2003 3:57:29 PM

Mineral Virginia

uh, steve, everybody who has a child that needs child care at all caught ya pal.

Reminds me of a segment I read here awhile back somewere else where they started at 40k income earners and went thru to 1 million earners. EVERY one said they considered them selves "not rich". 'course, the ones closer to the larger number did only have one spouse working, and there were those tennis and dance lessons the kids just had to attend.

It's all relative to your lifestyle and where you want to be in the rat race. Closing statement for the piece said "Most men consider themselves well off if they make $100 more a year than their wives sister's husband." Sad but true in most case.

6/20/2003 4:18:36 PM

Caceres, mid west of Spain

Very instructive about American costumes I found this post.

6/20/2003 6:18:03 PM

Key West, FL

"well clinton got all the credit for what bush #1 set in place.now bush #2 is getting all the credit for all the shit clinton set in place..and if you don’t believe this you got to be plum local." blkcloud


Hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Geuss I'm just plum local

6/20/2003 9:39:41 PM

Rm, Tn

When this thread started I said to myself"OH NO THIS IS EAST COAST _ WEST COAST WAR" Only in America could such opinions be stated and people still remain friendly to each other. This truely is a great country with great people on a great web site!
Funnydad please don't knock the roadkill, It makes very good meatloaf!

6/20/2003 9:50:47 PM

porterville,california usa

last time i was found guilty of committing an offence i did 180 days. so i don`t take no offence to nothin` no more.

6/21/2003 1:14:19 AM

Garden State Pumpkins

Hmmmmm daycare is more here in NJ....no pickup either! Yikes!

6/21/2003 2:34:43 AM

Pulaski Tn [email protected]

in the first east coast vs west coast scrimmage i think toopackschakure got capped after a tyson fight in lost wages n.v (i was there by the way) and den, one of the two retalliated and put a cap in the notourious B.I.G...so..if i wake up one morning and find a couple of arrows in one of my prize punkins... well den i'm gonna cut loose

6/21/2003 7:19:58 AM

Kansas

Atleast when Clinton left the office the budget had a surplus that he created, not GB1. Now since GB2 has been in office were back in the bottomless pit of debt. Just my 2-cents.

6/22/2003 1:27:08 PM

Sequim, WA

The Rocky Mountains are best for blocking the westward migration of squash vine borers. They sure don't stop people from coming here. I got in my car in Ohio in 1979 and drove to the west coast. Been here to stay ever since. Ever notice how few from the west coast move to the east though? Hmmm, there's something to think on. And there are people here who believe there really was a surplus??? If so why wasn't it used to pay down the debt the general fund owes to the SSA? Or any other debt for that matter? Lets leave the politics to the pumpkin clubs. We're all out of our leauge when it comes to those matters. Oh, by the way, first male open today on 583 Michalec 02, first one in the patch.

6/22/2003 2:07:46 PM

Tipp City, Ohio

Clinton inherited what was coming from the Reagan and Bush era and spent it on Monica. Then Bush II inherits what Clinton failed to do and who gets the blame?????

6/22/2003 8:43:02 PM