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Southeast

I have all these problems happen, anyone have a solution?

4/10/2003 10:50:52 AM

South Hill, Virginia

What is double bubbling?

4/10/2003 11:20:10 AM

Pumpkintown, SC

A more honest, relaxed dialog between two adults is a start.
But, I guess everyone is either; 1)out for "number one," or 2)afraid everyone else is out for "number one."
Not the best of environments for two people to conduct a friendly seed swap! Thanks you to those of you who I've traded with. Hope we both grow a biggun, BF <:^}>

4/10/2003 12:34:47 PM

Mineral Virginia

Brent, double dating for people who live in bubbles. Geez, and I thought you were hip on this stuff.

4/10/2003 12:44:13 PM

Waquoit Mass

The easy way to make a good trade is to find out about the grower from other growers in his area. I dont make a serious trade with someone until ive checked him out . Lot of new guys into this in the last few years. Like doctors lol dh

4/10/2003 1:06:53 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Amen Snake...honesty and *friendliness* are important.

4/10/2003 3:29:31 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

...and if one party in a trade isn't "fair", go elsewhere.

4/10/2003 3:35:01 PM

Mineral Virginia

Maybe I've had some bad experiences, and this isn't directed at anyone in this thread, but the only easy way to trade in my mind is trading seeds for money. I haven't been at this very long, but I think I'm just going to buy my stock from the Dill's and work on building my own strains. I'll be happy to give seed away, but I doubt I ever ask anyone again.

4/10/2003 3:56:17 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

"Double Bubbling"? I think I know what that term is supposed to represent.

But could anyone be so nieve to think that if they intentionally sent several bubble packs with seed requests to the same grower (to get "double" seed!)...that the grower wouldn't catch on very quickly? I mean, it would be obvious right? And the person who would intentionally do such a thing would probably be less educated and articulate about the ways of the AG community, right?

Someone would have to be really stupid, and with no common sense at all, to try and pull that one off huh?

4/10/2003 5:44:10 PM

Roselle, IL [email protected]

I only trade my best seed with growers I know, or have traded with before, or with the grower of the seed. If they don't have it, I don't want it.

George Janowiak

4/10/2003 8:49:21 PM

Southeast

Thanks Fred Little

4/10/2003 9:49:50 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

You're so very welcome Dr. Garrell!!

I can't imagine why you would be having such troubles but I hope you resolve them soon. So sad to be inflicted with multiple pumpkin problems at once.

"Fred"

4/10/2003 10:50:26 PM

Webster, NY

As I understand it, this "double bubbling" has happened to a number of people. I think Joe Pukos also had that problem this year.

4/11/2003 8:04:36 AM

Usa

Fred?

4/11/2003 12:14:02 PM

Rush, NY

Kyle you must be really stupid with no common sense at all to post what you did 6 items above.
You know I heard from 6 growers of fruit over 1000 pounds that you double and triple bubbled for seeds. So, don't tell me "You forgot the first one"
You couldn't control your anger that I discovered "your less than honorable activity" so you sent me numerous e-mails to harress me with language I can't print here. When I told you I would delete any further of your e-mails, you tricked me to read 2 more of your nasty ones be sending from addresses without your name. You told me at least 4 times that you are a good Christian man and have done no wrong. I told you a good Christian wouldn't do what you were doing and you were offended.
Then to destroy my character you sent out e-mail that contained 3 outright lies to paint me as a hypocrit. You sent one of them to a friend of mine who forwarded it to me as he smelled a rat. It also contained other "character assassination" items about David Garrell and me. I MAILED that e-mail to you with a letter pointing out the lies. (do you need more prof). I said you could keep doing what you were doing and dig yourself an even deeper hole OR be a good Christian and man enough to apologize and I would forgive you..........In addition to sending me a nasty nasty nasty letter you sent an e-mail that include "I have no intention of apologizing to anyone and certainly do not seek anyones approval or forgiveness".
David Garrell has forwarded 4 of you e-mails that are pure harassment. It's too bad you don't know when to quit.
Len Stellpflug

4/11/2003 3:25:11 PM

Usa

The double bubbling is not the only problem there is.

TWO that's 2 months ago a BP.com member said send bubblepack with $$money for postage.

Now do you think I ever saw those seeds???

Not even. So beware. And no I will not tattle names.

4/11/2003 3:58:41 PM

Mineral Virginia

ouch, things get ugly on yet another thread. I hate to seem dim, but aside from my joke, I'm afraind I'm going to need someone to use a very large crayon and explain, real slow, what this practice is.

Brent asked too, so it aint just me!

4/11/2003 4:47:19 PM

[email protected]

I wonder what the chances are of doing a feedback forum like they do on Ebay. In this case if you make a good trade both parties give each other a positive feedback, if the trade was less than average, then it would be a neutral feedback. If the deal gets nasty then you get a negative feedback. Probably a lot of work to do, but I think something needs to be done. As a newby I would be able to see a history of past trades, good or bad and who to stay away from.
Also as a newby I would need to earn my positves by making good trades or deals.
Just my thoughts
Eddy

4/11/2003 5:19:27 PM

Alex, IN

I think that is a great idea. We need to figure something out like that.

Mikkal

4/11/2003 5:35:24 PM

Mastic Beach, New York

funnydad,..i think it's asking a grower for his seed and then sending another bubble pack asking for seeds with a different name(like putting your dog or cat names on the bubble pack)..so you can doubble your seeds from a grower..because sometimes a grower can only send 1 seed per pumpkin(because of volume of request or the pumpkin didn't have alot of seeds in it)

billy

4/11/2003 5:36:38 PM

Long Island,New York

This forum is your feedback forum....watch, listen, talk and decide for yourself........looks pretty cut and dry to me.........G

4/11/2003 5:57:35 PM

ontario

Well said Len....who is southern pumpkin, is it Kyle Little...?????....wayne

4/11/2003 6:05:32 PM

syracuse, ny

and to think that i STARTED reading this page for info on
how to ultra-oxygenate my seeds before planting---the other two titles were self-pollina...err, self-explanatory!

can you send a seed pack to the same address, TWICE?
would a double-bubbler (dubbler) go to the extent of
having a victim grower send seed(s) to a different address,
in a different state to avoid detection??

if you send seeds out, keep track of to whom, when, what,
where, all that stuff! sorry, i'm a bit crazy when it comes to keeping track of such things, but at least i know the above. there is no excuse, or reason other than one's own
selfishness that would cause any person to request more seeds than he or she is welcome to, which for me is one
request per person per year, and i'm keeping track.

it is sad that this even happens, when we SHOULD be discussing how we're gonna grow them big ones this year!
'pal

4/11/2003 6:26:09 PM

syracuse, ny

i also think that anyone that pulls pranks and/or is
dishonest to any degree should be blocked from this site,
including people that put up trade offers but are
'just kidding'....end of story....

4/11/2003 6:34:14 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

So the great Len Stellpflug speaks.
Well I'm not impressed. You may be a great squash/pumpkin grower but that's not a measure of character.
I hear big talk, and that's all it is, accusations but no substance.
Whatever guys, spout off all you want...there's other people here that know you like I do, but you'll always be great to the masses.

BTW...you still never provided proof that I intentionally sent extra bubbles, or "screwed" you Len. Just how did I do that?
Grow up..this aint' high school no more.

4/11/2003 7:38:51 PM

Southeast

What about the other duplicate seed requests you made to other growers Kyle. Would you need proof of those as well to shut you up and get you the hell off this site. And thanks Len Im sick of this articulate jerk twisting and turning every word I post or say.I personally know of two more people who emailed me tonight telling me they recieved letters from Kyle and Fred Little to the same address. I wont say who they are because Im sure you will assasinate there characters as well. Like G said make up youre own mind. David

4/11/2003 8:08:55 PM

Canton,Mass

I'm confused about what you guys are alleging. I sent someone $2 for seeds and never got them. Did I get screwed?
I can't believe someone would be nasty for $2.I don't know. If people are ordering seeds and then saying that they never got them, then they are not like us.We are hard working ,honest peolpe who have turned our creative efforts into an obscure horticultural endevor so that we can bring happiness to ourseleves,our children,our neighbors and friends. DO NOT LET THE RATS controll us. BE good,be honest,like we are and if there is a rat,then post his name ALL over this site as to expose him. Excomunicate him! He can always buy seeds through a catalog or at Home Depot. I hate crumbs that take advantage of "good" people.

4/11/2003 8:25:10 PM

South Hill, Virginia

Well said G. Everyone can follow threads and then make up his/her own mind who to deal with. I would think banning someone from the site would be just about impossible.

I don't thrive on controversy but these no-so-friendly threads do serve a useful purpose. They give everyone a chance to get to know the other growers that share our hobby....good or bad.

4/11/2003 9:00:30 PM

Ontario

You know what? I'm getting a little sick of the back stabbing and personal insults that are showing up here. I've seen better behavior on my daughters teen chat sites. I'll assume that we're adults here but by this and a few other threads I've seen there's no reason to make such an assumption. In all honesty I've never met someone that grew giant pumpkins that was not a good guy. Here's a tip guys. If you recieve two bubble packs, throw one out. Simple. Don't always assume the worst. If you don't want to deal with someone,then don't. Might I also suggest you donate all the seeds that you want to distribute from last years pumpkins to BP.com and then you won't have a problem. If we don't build trust and friendships now, we're going to get hammered when the Dill patent is up next year and the sharks move in when big money is involved. Choose your friends but there's no point in making enemies in something that should be fun for ALL. As Howard Dill says "Pumpkins make people Happy" There's no room for this ugliness. Let's grow up people and set a good example and be civil with eachother.

4/11/2003 9:40:46 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

David G....I didn't twist a thing, you claimed some things and stated them as facts. I simply asked you to show some proof of these facts. How that gets twisted is beyond me, you wrote it.
Fred Little doesn't exist, never has.
I'd sure like to see that "letter" or have the person who supposedly received it e-mail me. Feel free to ask them to do so.

That's a bold-faced, outright lie from you....once again.

Although you are attempting to stir this mess up again by your accusations(still unfounded and unproven)...I will not fall for the same trick twice.

Silly, disgruntled men looking for a bone to pick with someone who doesn't take thier crap..as I see it. I'm looking forward to the day when you turn on each other, that should be interesting.

4/11/2003 10:22:02 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Goodnight Johnboy

4/11/2003 10:32:29 PM

Leicester, NY

Cowpie (that’s a great handle!) you’re right, I wish we could all just keep posts to growing the big ones, but I feel I have to respond.

To: Kyle Little, a.k.a. Southern,
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, as are the rest of the growers in the pumpkin world. I have formed an opinion of you and like G says, it’s cut and dry. You don’t have a clue of the character of Len Stellpflug. I know him very well, he’s a kind, brilliant, hard working giant pumpkin and squash pioneer that is very willing to share his seeds, thoughts and ideas with everyone. When you traded a seed, reputed to be an 865 Mettler, to Len and he questioned whether it was authentic, you had to post on BP’s something to the effect of “Hey, who traded me that seed?” Are you kidding me and you’re judging HIS character? You “inadvertently” sent out multiple bubble packs to at least 6 heavy hitter growers that I’ve talked to. You want proof; maybe we could start a list? Are we to really believe you “just didn’t keep track” of people you sent to and you could not remember who may have traded seeds with you a very short time ago? I don’t believe that’s possible and I’ll tell you what, I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and guess that you’re smarter than that. Sadly, it’s very clear to me these deceitful actions were deliberate, like your attacks on Len and Dave. Thankfully, 99.9 % of the pumpkin growers I have had the great privilege to meet have been wonderful, honest people. Best of luck to all for 2003!..Joe Pukos

4/11/2003 10:36:08 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Well you see Joe, I jumped into the seed thing full bore last Fall. I sent out lots of bubbles, lots. I admit that and am not ashamed..I was OK'd by growers to do so.
I kept no records, I was sloppy. Plain and simple. Now if people want to believe otherwise of my statement, fine. Surely I cannot be the only person to have ever been guilty of this sloppy enthusiasm in pumpkin seed acquisition or trading. Give me a break..you guys make me out as some type of robber?
As far as the Mettler..yep, forgot where I got it. That's it, no big revelation. I was heavy on the "seed circuit"...no records, no clue. That issue was settled to Mr. Stellpflugs satisfaction by the way.
Believe what you want, I'll obviously never change that. But certain people have told themselves, or heard it from a liar, that I'm a 2-headed wolf, they actually believe it...and there's no crime in being sloppy in record keeping.
You all ASSUME that happened because I'm deceitful, dishonest. What on earth, besides being sloppy, gives you any impression that I'm anything *other* than honest?
I don't go thru all this trouble and aggravation defending myself because I want to decieve you all again and come back for more.....kamikaze!
I would think it logical that someone might know just a bit about someone, and have some proof of ill intentions, before accusing another of dishonesty and deceit.
At this point I'm tired of it all and really don't care what any of you "nay-sayers" think. It's a waste of energy.

David?...the Fred Little thing, a LIE. You know it, I know it, and someday other people will know you.

4/12/2003 12:23:52 AM

Rush, NY

Kyle above you said "I hear big talk, and thats all it is, accusations, but no substance". Apparently you don't consider the e-mail I sent you in which you lied to paint me as a hypocrit any SUBSTANCE. What was it?
I never accused you of "screwing" me. Where did you come up with that one? I did inform you that a Mettler 865 seed I got from you didn't look like two I got from other growers but I DID NOT accuse you of faking it.
I just had an e-mail from another good grower that you double bubbled. The count is up to 7 that I now know about.
You did a lot of forgetting.
Len Stellpflug

4/12/2003 12:49:56 AM

French River,P.E.Island, Canada

Bobbybou,,,if your looking for seeds , email me , may take a couple of weeks to get them to you or if you'd like I know a few Pumpkin folks in your state that I'm sure I could email them and get them to send you a few seeds for the up coming season to make sure you get them on time.

...........Peter

4/12/2003 1:02:32 AM

Southeast

Sometimes I say and do what to me seems to be the ethical approach. You can leave youreself looking a little shabby. Im not one to worry about opinions when the truth must be spoken. I have said my peace. David

4/12/2003 7:20:33 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Sorry, that was David G. that said I screwed you. I get confused as you both sound alike.

That's great people e-mail you about me, glad for you. It's all heresay to me. I've read enough of your hateful words to NOT put any stock in anything you have to say Mr. Len.

None of this rhetoric has proven just how I have intentionally done anything wrong or deliberately been dishonest or deceitful.

Ya-da, ya-da, ya-da...I did this, I did that..is all I hear.

There's no crime, no story..never has been. No Hannibal Lector here, sorry.

4/12/2003 7:28:37 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Here I come.....kamikaze!!!

4/12/2003 7:32:10 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Len,

There's that "I would forgive you" statement again.

Just what does your "forgiveness" do for me? Please tell me why I should seek it?

My goodness...such arrogance and self-appreciation.

4/12/2003 8:12:57 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Garrell,
Ethical approach?
:0)

4/12/2003 8:24:02 AM

Western Pa.

Southern,

Mr. Len Stellpflug is a gentleman and a scholar. Mr. Fred Little DOES exist, and lives in Illinois. I sent seed packs to both you and him. Whether you are one and the same, or related is something I do not know. I have seen firsthand how "ethical" Dr. Garell can be in chats and on this site and at seed auctions. All this bitterness is destroying the once friendly, helpful site that Ken and John have tried so hard to create and keep current. I'm fed up and sick of all the controversy. All this insignificant crap, has left me hesitant to post ANY messages here, even to help a new grower. I'm sure many others feel the same. I'm going to go prepare for a new season of giant pumpkin growing, I suggest some of the rest of you send in "baby sitting fees" to John and Ken. End this thread and get a life!

4/12/2003 9:26:05 AM

Rush, NY

Kilpumpkins: I agree. I will not enter another post as Kyle always has to have the last word. Thats what got him in this mess. I'm going to my Farm tomorrow and won't be back until November. Its time to get on with growing.
Len Stellpflug

4/12/2003 10:54:20 AM

ontario

In support of Len...Joe....and David I too have received two requests from Mr. Kyle Little.... it might just be a small error done in hast or someone with extremely poor organizational skills...I two have made errors sending out seeds, but don't ever recall sending two requests to the same person....I even traded a seed I thought I had, only to find it was not in my collection...but the grower was kind enough to send it on my behalf :0)...... only Kyle knows for sure.....wayne

4/12/2003 11:31:28 AM

Pumpkintown, SC

I think we all see what I was talking about in the third post of this thread. I'm really not one who posts that much and do attempt to avoid contraversy. But I have to say, based on my knowledge(which granted, can't take into account ALL the facts here) I see where both arguments come from.
I have double bubbled(ie sent 2 sasbe to the same grower asking for the same seed). I did not do it intentially and when I found out I told the grower to keep his seeds because I had made a mistake. My eagerness to get some specific seeds had out paced my record keeping. Simple error. And, simple resolution. Simple resolution based on an honest and relaxed dialog between two adults(like written about above).
I also have attempted to trade with several growers. Some have been amazingly generous. You know who you are and thanks again. Others, unfortunately, including people we refer to as heavy hitters and one person in this thread, have been less than, shall we say, forthright in their communications. I'd imagine, to some of the people I have delt with, I too have come across in a confusing way.
We are all different with different ways of communicating, different approaches and different agendas...some good, some maybe not so good. Remember, what ever group we are in, in this case a giant pumpkin growing group, we are all still just a cross section of people from all over the world. Not a group that is better or worse, just remnansent of people all over the world. Recent world activities help prove this.
My bottom line is this...Without an honest and relaxed dialog between two people trying hard to remain civil and without assumptions, we, whether with ill intentions or the best of intentions, will continue to have disputes that neither party involved had intended. Sorry for the length, BF <:^}>

4/12/2003 11:47:42 AM

Caceres, mid west of Spain

Well, well, well, I see only one solution: Gunfight at OK Corral.
I bet for Burt Lancaster and Kirk Douglas (Yes, you are right I've seen the movie, but only 15 times)

4/12/2003 4:17:23 PM

Puyallup, WA

And here all along I've been hearing the G.W. was the "cowboy"! ;>)

4/12/2003 5:20:24 PM

North Ga

Carlos..I like the old Spanish westerns with Lee Van Cleef!! Or Spaghetti westerns with Clint Eastwood. The soundtracks are amazing!! What a riot!!

4/12/2003 5:35:46 PM

canal winchester ohio

do do do do doooo
wa wa waaaaaa

4/12/2003 5:38:02 PM

Connecticut, USA

This thread ends here now!

4/12/2003 5:58:39 PM

Webster, NY

Thank you John!

4/12/2003 6:53:58 PM