Message Board - BigPumpkins.com

Can anyone share their pumpkin growing experiences with hormone type stimulants. I'm thinking about materials containing gibberellins, auxins, cytokinins, etc.

Thanks,
Steve Jepsen

12/18/2002 1:51:20 PM

Tom B

Indiana

I would be interested also.....I would like to get the right combination to keep my dang clones alive better.....down to one surviving now.....

Tom Beachy

12/18/2002 3:49:00 PM

Morris, Connecticut

Auxin- involved in many plant activites. Used most commonly to induce adventitious root formation. This is what propagators will stick a cutting into in order to make it produce roots. Common forms of auxin available are indolebutyric acid (IBA) and naphthalene acetic acit (NAA).

Cytokinins- One of the most important hormones in plant growth as it is essential for cell division. Applying some common forms of this hormone will increase shoot growth. Some common forms include zeatin and isopentenyladenine (2iP).

Cytokinins and Auxin kind of work opposite to each other. A high auxin/cytokinin ratio favors root production and a high cytokinin/auxin ratio will favor shoot production.

Gibberellins (GA's)- important in germination and seed dormancy. Also important in cell elongation and division. Applications of GA's will increase shoot growth. Dwarfing chemicals often act to inhibit the production of GA's.

Abscisic acid- a natural growth inhibitor. involved in controlling the dormancy of buds and seeds. A high Abscisic acid concentration will keep the seeds or buds from growing (dormant).

Hope this helps. It really is just the basics though. I'm a graduate student working towards an advanced degree in plant propagation and ornamental horticulture. I work with this stuff just about everyday and after 5 or 6 years of work I am still learning!! Plant hormone interactions are pretty amazing......

-Adam

12/18/2002 4:53:47 PM

I know what you mean BW. I've been in the pro arena for 20 years now. I've got a good handle on the turf & ornamental uses (my field), but timing is extremely critical. Timed properly, AG's should respond very well. But if the timing is off, disasterous results are possible.
The idea is to stimulate early growth & rooting to establish solid plants by July 1st. Then ease off a bit to prevent inhibitting flower & fruit set. Then crank things back up to prevent early maturation of fruit. But it's the what's, when's, & why for's that keep me from actually comitting to the program I currently have.
Have you seen any good published results from actual field use on pumpkins? I've Googled my eyes crossed & called some of the Ag Station folks I know. But nothing valid yet. I'd love to see a solid pumpkin program before comitting any of my limited growing space.
Thanks,
Steve

12/18/2002 8:38:16 PM

Morris, Connecticut

I know Tremor, I think there is definatly a place for some experimentation. I've often thought about applying some auxin to the nodes of a plant as it is growing in order to increase anchor root formation. The thought being that increased anchor roots = increased nutrient uptake/water uptake and ultimatly increased health. I may experiment with a plant this season....

As far as published data on Atlantic Giants goes, I don't believe there is any. Unfortunatley, pumpkin growing on "our" scale is not very "important" in the grand scale of things. Consequently, the research dollars get pushed towards the more economically important crops (tomatoes, Potato, ect..).

On the bright side though, there might be some work with field pumpkins or winter squash (close relatives of the AG). I'll do some searching and see what I can find.
-Adam

12/18/2002 11:32:00 PM

Drew Papez [email protected]

That's an interesting idea. All the cucurbits have good trancellular sigalling capabilities & a tremendous vascular system. I'll contact my commercial labe people to see if they can perform tissue tests for any of these compounds. The fate of each, with knowlege of site placement is potentially critical.

Agronomics. That's what I keep thinking. Cash finds cash. Pumpkins for carving are more popular than at any time in history. While there are plenty of NPK & irrigation studies out there, they all focus on total tons taken per acre. Individual pumpkin weight yield increases are taboo to the commercial grower for very good economic reasons. Indeed, most pumpkin buyers avoid the largest specimens on purpose. They have to lug that bugger back to the minivan & carve the thing! Anything over 40 or 50 lbs. is harder to market.

Steve

12/19/2002 8:07:47 AM

Alexsdad

Garden State Pumpkins

Hey Adam, It would seem to me that application of a root growth hormone on the tap root would be easy since the tips are up...would the root growth hormone applied to the tap roots migrate up and destort the growth of the rest of the plant? or localize in the tap root growing it larger? thereby getting more nutrients the rest of the plant wants. I would be willing to try this if you have any trade names of root growth hormones to use. Chuck

12/19/2002 8:07:57 AM

Ontario

I have used Auxins, Cytokinins, and Gibberellins the last two years. As a result they have been my best two years to date but still fall short of any records by 300 pounds. So I don't know if they help but will be trying again next year.

drew

12/19/2002 9:00:25 AM

Morris, Connecticut

Alexsdad: I agree, seems like a hormone treatment would be easy to do when the vine tips are above ground. I don't think that the hormone would distort the growth of the rest of the plant (provided it is not applied in concentrations that are to high). If auxin is applied to heavily or to tissue that is very soft, it can results in some form of chemical burn around the application region.

I would think that an application of 1000-2000 parts per million IBA or NAA would work best. Some commercially available forms of Auxin are Dip N Grow, and Hormodine. Most nurseries or garden centers should offer these or have an idea where to locate them.

12/19/2002 9:21:57 AM

Morris, Connecticut

Drew: I would be interested to hear about some of experiences/problems if you don't mind sharing. Post here or e-mail me privatly if you prefer,

thanks,

Adam

12/19/2002 9:24:18 AM

Don Quijote

Caceres, Spain

I could imagine that everyone here prefers you post it! I do for sure........Don

12/19/2002 1:31:13 PM

Don Quijote

Caceres, Spain

This very morning I've had a talk with an state agronomic expert on this particular subject. A resume can be that he saw many deformed fruits in solanaceae and cucurbitaceae due to a little variations of the concentration ratio of the fruit enlarging hormones, the amount used, or the moment of application. Some fruits mature too early and others even drop after having get average size. Definitely, he took my intentions off.
Talking about the root hormones, my experience in my patch with cucurbitaceae is that there is no need to use that stuff as far as their roots grow so fast and so extense, if the soil is prepared like we expect it should be for a giant pumpkin and properly worked. Maybe in harder soils or cooler places one can find hard for roots to develop in such a way, I don't know.
Don

12/19/2002 1:46:38 PM

docgipe

Montoursville, PA

Gibberellins (GA's)were first available, to my hands, back in the early 1960's. It was a novelty spray can product which clearly carried serious no use on food producing plants warnings. We had a lot of fun playing with the product but we wore masks and stayed away from food plants.

I never heard of the product since until today. I don't want any for any reason today. How about this consideration. One of us overloads a spot in the garden with (GA's). Next year we grow a hill of potatos and eventually a member of our family develops cancer for no other known reason. This is pretty bad stuff to be fooling with. It takes minute exposure to cause rapid cell growth in plant life. Animal life studies may not even exist.

12/21/2002 10:33:20 PM

I remember those warnings too. Odd too. Today we wouldn't have Thomsen White Seedless Graps without Giberellins. The seeds in many plants (grapes & pumpkins) all produce giberellins (GA) themselves. If there are no seeds, the fruit fails to grow due to the lack of GA. So unless White Seedless grapes get sprayed 3 times, the fruit will set, stunt, wither, & die. No supplemental GA sprays means no grapes to harvest. None.
I lost track of the agriculture uses too. So I too was surprised to see it's full scale use on food crops. But it is a naturally ocurring compound. All I can think is that the early forms of GA were manufactured in a way that resulted in some sort of nasty by-product that was toxic as all heck.
Does anyone know?

Steve

12/21/2002 11:16:26 PM

Morris, Connecticut

I'm not sure about any of the early forms and their manufacturing. However, I have friends in who have been working with GA, IBA, NAA and other hormones for 30+ years in their research, agriculture and nursery operations. None have experienced any bad side affects.

I would however caution that users should read the product labels and follow directions about the quantity of application. As tremor mentioned they are naturally occuring compounds. However, some naturally occuring compounds can be very dangerous (Rotenone, Pyrethrium ect....).

Just my two cents.....

-Adam

12/22/2002 8:12:09 PM

docgipe

Montoursville, PA

Oh my. Guess I have goofy white seedless grapes. They have been fruiting for thirty years without applied GA's. Will admit they do not produce well but good enough for me and the birds.

12/23/2002 1:06:46 AM

cow

Korea

I also had both white seedless grapes and seedless concords for years. The original plant of both of those varieties were grown from a seed,and then produced grapes with no seeds. All the vines today are clones of those 2 varieties and as such will continue to produce seedless fruit naturally. Tangerines, which are seedless, have been around for thousands of years, they are also all propagated from cuttings, and thus are clones.

12/24/2002 12:13:15 AM

Gads

Deer Park WA

Don't try to improve on mother nature to much, I would recomend sticking with the basics, rich in humus, deeply tilled, and lots of "shadow" as my grandfater used to say. That would be, your shadow bending over the plants caring for them. I miss him alot this time of year, he was very cool...

12/24/2002 12:55:48 AM

Don Quijote

Caceres, Spain

That is the safest way, Gerry. I understand you have to maintain a balance. Do as much as you can, but push stronger on the important and safer things. Hormones looks attractive, but see what happens in intensive farm animals and in bodybuilders, heart attacks very often, they grow big, but many don't get till October. :)
As we say in Spain, feeds much better one ham than a bottle of vitamins. (or one manure track than a packet of fertilizer)
Don

12/24/2002 4:13:27 AM