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Pulaski Tn [email protected]

yESTERDAY I STUMBLED INTO MY LOCAL FARM STORE, WAS CHECKING OUT THE HALF PRICE SEEDS AND GUESS WHAT THERE LAY A PACK OF A.G.'S "GROW 1000 LB PUMPKINS" RIGHT ON THE FRONT.. WELL AS I DROOLED AT THE PICTURE THE OWNER CAME BY TO ASK IF I NEED ANY HELP "SURE DO WHERE IS YOUR COUCH..HEHEHE" HE DIDN'T THINK THAT TO FUNNY, I PROCEEDED TO ASK HIM IF HE HAD GOTTEN PERMISSION TO SELL THESE SEEDS FROM MR. DILL.. BOY YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THE LOOK I GOT, KINDA LIKE WHEN I ASK MY FIRST GIRLFRIEND FOR SOME SUGAR..THEN I WENT ON TO TELL HIM THESE WERE PATENT SEEDS AND NOT JUST ANYONE COULD SELL THEM... WELL HE QUICKLY TOLD ME HE DIDN'T NEED ANYONE'S BLANKEDY BLANK PERMISSION TO SELL ANYTHING.. SOO.. FOR ALL OF YOU ALL EXPERTS IN THE FIELD PLEASE ANSWER ME THESE QUESTIONS...
#1 IS HE BREAKING THE LAW??
#2 CAN WEEKS SEEDS COMPANY CHANGE THE NAME OF A ATLANTIC GIANT TO A NORTH CAROLINA GIANT?
#3 COULD THE STORE OWNER SELL THESE ON EBAY WITH OUT FEAR OF A MELTDOWN @ B.P.COM?
#4 IF I BOUGHT THEM COULD I SELL THEM ON EBAY WITH OUT FEAR OF A MELTDOWN @ B.P.COM?
AND FINALLY, TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT.. I HAVE "NEVER" SOLD A A.G. SEED PERIOD.. IN FACT I BET YOU THE I HAVE GIVEN AWAY MORE THAN THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE READING THIS POST.. ON HALLOWEEN NIGHT I PROBABLY GAVE OUT 300 SEEDS TO THE PARENTS GAWKING AT MY JACK O LANTERN.. AND ANOTHER 100 AT THE "BIG" WEIGH OFF I WENT TO.. HEY I OWN 2 BUSINESS I MAKE MY MONEY BORING HOLES AND TURNING STEEL THEY WAY I SEE IT THERE'S NO MONEY IN SELLING SEEDS..

12/4/2002 9:14:06 AM

[email protected]

I'm no lawyer. But if the Dill's AG seed was gentically paterned by a plant DNA specialist, then compared to the seed you found. And they were found to be the same. And Howard Dill felt like spending the time & money on the fight for what amounts to less than 2 more years of exclusivity, then the courts are where it COULD go. But there's just not enough money left in this patent to attract big money lawyers.
Just my thoughts though. Now look out! LOL

Steve

12/4/2002 10:06:36 AM

Kentucky - USA

I'm not a lawyer either but I would bet the original dna of the seeds that got the pvp patent wouldn't match any of the seeds out today. They have many too many crosses with pumpkins of different varieties. I'll stop here on that because I don't want to make anybody mad at me.

But as for the questions:
Maybe NAG'S are a different varietie.

If NAG'S are ags maybe Howard gets a commission off of the weeks seed company.

Yes..They would probably be a meltdown..LOL

One above covers all of them..


Tim

12/4/2002 12:20:49 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Over here you can't sell seed unless you are a registered seed merchant and even then it has to be a registered variety so to be legal you would have to prove North Carolina giant had different characteristics to A.G.before you started.
This is to protect breeders from other people cashing in on their expensive development programs,and also the public from buying seeds that don't germinate or aren't what they say they are.
That's fine for commercial varieties,not so good for some of our specialist exhibition varieties like Celery,Long Beet,onions carefully reselected for years and years growers get around this sometimes by selling plants instead of seeds.

Gotta go there's a moose loose in this hoose being chased around by a load of naturist's eating pasties.

12/4/2002 12:51:55 PM

South Hill, Virginia

Let me add a question to blkcloud's list.

Suppose I bought seeds from P and P seed (or some other authorized dealer). Could I resell them? Seems like if I bought them legal I could sell them legal. I can't build my own car and call it a Chevy Chevette and sell it but if I buy one at my local dealer I can surely sell it later.

12/4/2002 1:11:40 PM

Washington, The Evergreen State

Gee, blkcloud, you got a one track mind. But good for you. I hope that you find the answers to your questions. But, if those answers somehow end up not being to your liking, I also hope that you are big enough of a person to accept them and move on.

12/4/2002 1:11:55 PM

Sequim, WA

One of the restrictions of a PVP is that it precludes anyone from using the protected plant or seed to develop a new variety. If you wanted to cross AG's with Big Moon or Lumina, or Cinderellas or Hubbards and call the resulting cross something else and sell it you can't. As for breaking down DNA to determine if the North Carolina Giant or whatever is different, that is probably too costly to bother with. I doubt that Mr. Dill or anyone else got rich doing this. It's more a matter of it being an intellectual property rather than a real property. Selling seed or a plant variety that you didn't develop, and is protected with a PVP as your own without permission, is theft, plain and simple. It may be a small thing, but there is no shortage of thieves in this world. Some people say they hate liars, but everyone lies to some degree. I hate thieves. They are the worst form of liar. They tell themselves the lie that they have the right to something that isn't thiers and then they believe that lie. I'm not accusing anyone of these things, just stating a few facts and an opinion.

12/4/2002 2:02:49 PM

[email protected]

So if resale is what someone wants to do & that is what it sounds like, so be it. Just call P&P or Dill Enterprises with a Tax ID number & set up a wholesale account.

I sell factory direct fertilizer & Grass seed. Many of my customers are resellers. The day someone implies that I must give away my grass seed just because I enjoy turf management is the day I quit. The fact that I enjoy my profession doesn't make me an amatuer. If I grew turf seed as a hobby & sold the resulting cultivars, I had better make sure I know the parentage, & then name, trademark, & PVP protect my interest. And I CANNOT use someone elses trademark protected name.

Buying seed from P&P retail, then reselling them won't result in good margins if your customers can shop P&P just as easily as you. As long as the seed isn't repackaged, it's probably legal.

Just keep in mind that seed has to be legally labeled to the letter of the law in the state in which it is sold. It also must be tested for percent germination & purity with a date that is usually current to within 9-12 months.

Now if you wanted to wholesale purchase Chevrolets & rename them for resale, you can. Just make sure your business contract & legal team are up to playing hardball with the boys at GM. Other folks do this all the time.

Steve

12/4/2002 2:20:59 PM

[email protected]

For the record, the turf cultivar breeding researchers get permission from old golf courses or other owners of open grassed areas to "hunt" for plants that exhibit traits they are after. Then the hybridizing begins. We own some varieties that we have purchased. We even have some that we license from the owner, sort of like a lease. Then there are those that we paid to develope. Either way, no one has the right to snag an owned variety just to breed into their own stock with an eye toward cheap improvement.
Some of the bredding programs are beginning to move toward genetic manipulation at the DNA level. This is really cool stuff because the breeder can place a "signature" in the DNA strand. Then NOBODY can play games down the road.

Steve

12/4/2002 2:28:33 PM

porterville,california usa

right . on tiller! booth

12/5/2002 2:32:05 AM