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Pulaski Tn [email protected]

hI, GUYS YOU KNOW I HAVE FARMED ALL MY LIFE AND UNTIL THAT FATEFUL DAY JUNE 20TH NEARLY 3 YEARS AGO(I'LL NEVER FORGET IT) I WAS FLOATING AROUND ON EBAY GETIING SOME INDIAN CORN SEEDS AND A FEW LUMINA SEEDS WHEN I SPOTTED SOMETHING THAT JUST BLEW ME AWAY.. A PICTURE OF A KID SITTING INSIDE A PUMKIN..I COULDNT BELEIVE IT, YOU COULD ACTUALLY BUY GIANT PUMPKIN SEEDS MORE SPECIFIC DILLS A.G. WELL I BOUGHT ALL THEY HAD, 3 PACKS FOR 8.01 PLUS SHIPPING, IT WAS ONLY AFTER THAT DID I HAPPEN TO FIND THIS B.P. SITE. SINCE THEN I HAVE CHECKED EVEY WEEK TO SEE WHAT THE SEEDS ARE DOING AS FAR AS SALES (OUT OF CURIOSITY)AND I'M TELLING YOU THERE HAVE BEEN A TRAILER LOAD OF SEEDS SOLD ON EBAY IN THE NEARLY 3 YEARS I HAVE BEEN WATCHING THEM.. I SURE AM GLAD NONE OF YOU CRYBABIES FLEW IN AND STOPPED THE AUCTIONS I WERE BIDDIN ON,I GUESS SOME OF YOU WISHED THEY HAD..I JUST WONDER WHEN IS IT THAT A AUCTION GETS ABSURD?? I DONT REMEMBER ANY OTHER FALLING OUTS WHEN THEY ARE SELLING FOR 3 OR 4 DOLLARS A PACK .. AS FAR AS MR DILLS PATENT ITS OUTA HIS HANDS NOW ITS JUST GOTTEN TO BIG TO KEEP IN CHECK I BET YOU OUT OF THE 100 SEED CATALOUGES I GET EVERY YEAR 99 OF THEM SELLLS A.G'S ONE (WEEKS SEEDS) HAS EVEN CHANGED THE NAME TO NORTH CAROLINA GIANTS.. AND BOY THEY SURE SELL ON EBAY ALSO.. THIS SPORT HAS REALLY GROWN BECAUSE OF EBAY, AND IT WILL CONTINUE, EBAY DOESNT WANT TO STOP THE AUCTIONS I HAVE EMAILED THEM AND GOT A BIG LONG MUSHY LETTER BACK BUT THE SEEDS ARE STILL THERE, HEY BERNIE.. IF YOU WANT TO CASH OUT YOUR SEEDS WRITE A PAGE ON HOW TO GROW THEM, SELL THAT FOR 2000.00 AND GIVE THE SEEDS AWAY TO THE HIGEST BIDDER, THEN SEE IF THEY CAN STOP THAT.. BLKCLOUD!!

11/30/2002 3:28:33 PM

blkcloud; You are certinatly a credit to giant pumpkin growing, you should be commended, not sure for what,but it's not the wellfare of fellow growers, I am sure of that, boy, do all of you guy's only think that someone should have to sue. Where is your decent manner & respect, am I so old that a real man's word is all he is worth ?????????????

11/30/2002 7:45:10 PM

Caceres, Spain

At least you are not alone, Sap. I believe in this: when you receive love, you should give love, when you receive seeds freely, you sholud give'em freely as well. The first top seeds I received were a beautiful surprise for me. I found in them not only a hope for future, but a satisfaction for my soul, because the generosity of the growers who spent their efforts, time and money in this sport and give me their seeds just for seeing my smile. I am spending money -my wife reminds me often- in manure, fertilizers, irrigation items,... as well, but I am sure that even if I ever pay something for one seed, I will never ask for money to give a seed away. Just because the first ones I got were free.
I feel that way, try to offend nobody and understand the fellows who want to make some money with seeds (in any other plants is a normal business), but simply I don't like it. I think is not a matter of legal/illegal, but ethic.
And one last thing, if I don't know well the guy who is asking me money for one top seed, I feel I could not trust much in the veracity of that seed: where is the brand printed on?
Don

12/1/2002 2:10:01 AM

Key West, FL

Very well said Don. I will probably never pay for a seed unless it is at a auction for a non profit club and it wont be mor than $20. My seed will always be free for everybody as long as supplies last.
Ben

12/1/2002 3:04:01 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

I already defended the right of anyone to pay big money for a seed if they choose to do so,I just can't understand why they want to,it's bizarre.
grower 1;Hello my friend would you like a free seed it's the fattest one I have and has the genetic potential to break the world record.
grower 2;I'm insulted that's far to cheap I'd rather give $200 dollars to someone I don't know for a seed I've never seen.

I just don't get it.

12/1/2002 4:16:50 AM

Idaho

Last year when the seed collection in question was on e-bay I also bid on it, once or twice ( well actually more than that.) after the biding got up to uh couple hundred bucks the smacks to the back of the head from the wife started tuh hurt, in that way she convinced me not to bid anymore.
At that time I would watch B-P, not participate, and I watched the ney sayers and the people who congratulated the owner of the collection on how well it went when he sold it for the $1700.00.
Now you aint gonuh tell me there aint people here that would give there eye teeth for that colllection and there are those that would have jumped on it this time if the starting price would have been down aruond $20 bucks.
when I saw it on E-bay this time I called the wife in to see it and she saw the starting price and started to smack the back of my head before I had a chance to tell her I hadn't made a bid yet.
My point?? aint got one other than some people will always ruin someone elses good fortune no matter what it costs!

12/1/2002 7:55:46 AM

Washington, The Evergreen State

I am sorry to hear of your troubles blkcloud. But maybe you can look at it this way, Dill's pvp certificate was issued on 05/30/1986. And if you add 18 years and a day to that date you would discover that sometime around the middle of 2004 growers will be free to do as they please with their seed. And yes, that will include being able to auction your seeds off on ebay...

12/1/2002 12:46:06 PM

minnesota

It seems that if you only make a dollar or two then that is ok, but if you want to make a few hundred dollars then that is not. Where is the limit? To me free is free and profiting is profiting. There were many of you coming to the support of Al Eaton for profiting a couple of bucks, and now you have flip flopped on the E bay issue. It all sounds more than a little hypocritical.

12/1/2002 4:42:56 PM

minnesota

It definatley seems that there is a double standard, if you are one of the in crowd (heavy hitters with a well known name) you can do what ever you want and the masses will support you, but if you are not one of the Elite then you need to play by a different set of rules. The whole thing is beginning to disgust me. The Ebay auctions are all wrong and so was Al Eaton in my opinion. Maybe someone would like to explain the difference to me? Profiting is profiting.

12/1/2002 5:01:22 PM

Ga.

Let me add this,,When Bernie bought this collection,,seems Mr.Dill didnt make such a fuss..Never saw a post by him...So it would seem to me the person who sold it to Bernie is just as wrong as anyone else who sells...A sale is a sale,,no matter what.Double standard indeed...

12/1/2002 5:16:05 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Johnny you seem to be one of the few who've noticed about the PVP expiration.
Personally I see the future of AG growing from Marc Sawtelle and Nic Welty....is anyone paying attention to the ideas and concepts out there? Do you guys *really* pay attention to the hierarchy trees on the AGGC site and see where the future is?
I see no need to pay for "hot" seed. There are enough crosses and no-name seed with just as much potential to create the next big seed YOURSELFS that could rival any "hot" seed. It's all out there, waiting to be born.
Personally, I'm not buying "hot" seed, I'm forging my own path.

12/1/2002 7:02:55 PM

Webster, NY

Once again, I'm not an expert, but I think Kyle might be on to something. There were a lot of thousand pounders out there this year, and a lot of different crosses that some of them have to be good. I've been improving each of the three years I've grow so far, and I'm not going to stop improving now. Next year should be fun...

Dave

12/1/2002 7:34:22 PM

Washington, The Evergreen State

Well, I don't think that I'm only "one of the few" who have noticed Dill's pvp expiration date. I personally feel kyle that a lot of growers have either noticed it or at least at one time wondered about it. But anyway, kyle, if you could sometime find the time to elaborate a little more on the "future of AG growing" and Marc Sawtelle and Nic Welty, I think that a lot of folks might find the topic interesting.

12/1/2002 7:47:50 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Nic Welty laid it all out in George Webster's video of the Niagra Falls Convention. Selfs and sibs, creating purer lines for hybrids. Smaller pumpkins that have the same genetic crosses as many of the larger ones, that size doesn't necessarily diminish the quality of the genes. *Cloning* is the wave of the future to maintain purity and keep the lines going. Marc Sawtelle, who is a blast to talk to with his enthusiasm, has been touting it for several years. Nic does mass plantings to study the efficacy of selfing and crossbacking and the statistical analysis to back it up. I think they are right on the money and right on time.
Look at the lines out there that are so muddled. Look at the lines of the world records the last few years, see some selfs there? It is all becoming clearer when the time is taken to investigate and notice what trends are working and what aren't.
Don't get me wrong, there are alot of good crosses that result in heavy pumpkins and size does matter. But I believe that many smaller pumpkins are just as capable of reproducing champion lines as the big boys. Pure the line, adjust as needed, take several years to experiment and learn, use seed noone else will. Open your minds, look at cloning and hydroponics.
This hobby has so much room to grow and expound on. It's gotta stop somewhere I've heard several times about size and weight.
WHY does it have to stop somewhere? WHY should it stop somewhere? Can someone answer those question?

12/1/2002 8:07:33 PM

Washington, The Evergreen State

Well I'll say this much. I agree with you on the point that just because some selfs may end up as a smaller pumpkin "that size doesn't necessarily diminish the quality of the genes." Thanks kyle.

12/1/2002 9:50:47 PM

Caceres, Spain

Pure lines have a problem, are the opposite to genetical diversity and this is the same of consanguinity. If you take a look to the hierarchy trees of the biggest pumkins, shows that most of them end in the same seeds, 493.5 Dill 81, 390 Gancarz 84, 355 Dill 85, 579.5 Nesbitt 86. And a lot of the thousand pounders have among their ancestors three pumpkins of 1992, the Hollands 827 and 722, and the 567.5 Mombert, and they appear many times in the trees. Is more or less the same that happened with the royal families in Europe. The result was a lot of sick princes. Nevertheless, they also grow a big and handsome ones, did you see the Crown Prince of Spain, Felipe.

12/2/2002 10:41:16 AM

Caceres, Spain

I continue: I don't want to make predictions, but it looks like the Dill variety needs new blood to get the top, but I would like to know if anybody has calculated what is the top for a pumpkin to weigh.
It hasn't to be very hard to aproximate to; you know the size of the plant: 1000 sqft, you know the time a fruit is using light to grow: three months, and you can estimate the energy photosintesis can convert in carbohidrates, proteins and other photosintetic products after subtract the respiration of the plant. Then you convert that energy in dry weight and finally in humid weigh. Maybe more than 2000 lbs?

12/2/2002 10:51:35 AM

northern indiana

This is just my 2 cents. To pay for seed of questionable lineage is foolish. Even top seed can be obtained for free or only a couple dollars from reputable sources. Of course top seed is in limited supply and it may not be possible to get exactly what you want. However to attempt to buy top seed at auction is opening yourself up for dissapointment. There is generally no way to verify the true lineage of the seed offered other than the integrety of the seller. Integrety that is already in question due to the fact that the seller is already violating Mr. Dills pvp. I for one would not trust ANYONE auctioning seed to truely have top seeds. If i had top seed and gave or traded it away, then found out someone was auctioning it and wanted me to verify, I would not do so. At leas not untill the pvp expires out of respect for Mr. Dill and the law. If you want top seed mail bubble packs, network, trade and ask. you may not get exactly what you want but at least you will be able to get some good seed.

12/2/2002 11:44:50 PM

Deer Park WA

All "common" seeds are free it seems untill they produce a whopper, then it becomes a matter of integrity from the seed holder as to "profit or plant" the hot seed. I will not sell seed untill it becomes the normal practice, and/or Howard Dills rights to the AG become expired... It is up to us growers now to decide the future or seed distribution.

Check this out 1 pound of Gensing root seed goes for 35 bucks, it takes 80 to 100 pounds to grow 1 acre, dried root goes for 15 to 55 dollars per pound depending on the market, and it takes about 4 years to harvest a decent crop. I guess what I am saying is do you sell the seed or sell the root? Where do you want this hobby to be in 2 years when the "Patent" expires? I can grow Gensing, or whatever, the point is I like the comraderie of us sharing in pumpkins, do you????

12/3/2002 1:33:50 AM

Pulaski Tn [email protected]

gADS, WE CALL IT SANG 'ROUND HERE, BUT WE PLANT OURS IN THE WOODS SO IT LOOKS LIKE IT HAS GROWN WILD, WHICH IT HAS,KINDA,AND IT BRINGS ABOUT 300-400 DOLLARS A DRIED POUND..THE BAD THING IS ALL THOSE DADBLAME RATTLESNAKES THAT COME TO LIVE IN OUR PATCHES, YOU HAVE TO BE REAL CAREFUL WHEN DIGGIN IT THAT YOU DONT GET BIT.. BY A SNAKE OR BULLET..

12/3/2002 9:01:17 AM

Caceres, Spain

Huuge number of metaphoras...........with a poison smell.

12/3/2002 1:08:28 PM

Pulaski Tn [email protected]

sORRY, DON..WE PLANT GINGSENG IN THE WOODS,IT GROWS THERE AND THE ROOTS ARE ALL FUNNY SHAPED BECAUSE HAVING TO GROW AROUNG TREE ROOTS AND ROCKS AND THEY SELL FOR A WHOLE LOT MORE THAN THE CULTIVATED TYPE DOES. THE CULTIVATED TYPE IS LOT DIFFERENT LOOKING AND THE ORENTIALS WILL NOT PAY AS MUCH FOR THEM, APPERANTLY THE CULTIVATED TYPE WONT PUT LEAD IN YOUR PENCIL..AND IF YOU GET CAUGHT STEALING SOMEONE'S ROOTS FROM THEIR SECRET PATCH YOU MAY HAVE SOME LEAD FLYING TOWARDS YOU.. MEANING YOU COULD GET SHOT AT..

12/3/2002 2:41:15 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

"lead in your pencil":0)....That's why I love Tennessee.

12/3/2002 2:53:58 PM

[email protected]

What is it with the Chinese needing Rhino horn, 'Sang, & all that anyway? There aren't enough people in China now? Perhaps we can convince them that "powdered pumpkin guts" will put lead in the ole pencil & we'll all be rich.

Steve

12/3/2002 5:16:21 PM

Key West, FL

Hapdad

Club auctions are very reliable, atleast i know my club is. I dont have money to bid on them but i would beleive most clubs are reliable.
Ben

12/3/2002 6:31:17 PM

Key West, FL

blakcloud
aRE YOU A JOKE? wITH THE OPPOSITE TEXT? wITH TYPE LIKE THIS?
mR. bEN bORTNER

12/3/2002 6:33:36 PM

canal winchester ohio

Ben, blkcloud types like that so he can proofread it before he submits it. Like a bunch of us his eyesight isn't the best. And if he does it all in large caps it will be reduced to small, by doing it that way it doesn't get changed.

12/3/2002 6:40:32 PM

northern indiana

Sorry Ben i was refering to auctions intended for personal profit. Not for organizations or benefits. The initial post was about Ebay. The auctions there are for personal profit. This blkcloud seems to simply want to make an easy buck.

12/3/2002 6:49:41 PM

Key West, FL

Ohhh sorry blkcloud. You have a strong oppion and you are proud of that, thats good.
ben

12/3/2002 6:52:49 PM

Quebec,Canada

blkcloud, I am sorry about my comment the other day in the bumped out post.

12/3/2002 7:38:41 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

"Can't we just all get along?"

12/3/2002 8:56:45 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Or was it "Can't we all just get along?"?

12/3/2002 8:58:00 PM

Key West, FL

Kyle i thought we were all getting along? who isnt?
ben

12/3/2002 9:44:32 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

This group isn't....http://www.bigpumpkins.com/msgboard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=27987

12/3/2002 10:58:11 PM

Pulaski Tn [email protected]

tHANKS FOR STICKING UP FOR ME HUFF!! AND HEY RICHARD, NO WORRIES MATE!!

12/4/2002 8:56:14 AM

Ga.

YO cLoUd,,,Looks like SNOW is in your future!! Hope ya get 5 inches...LOL....

12/4/2002 9:11:58 AM

Pulaski Tn [email protected]

aRe YOU A joKE?? LOL!! PROBABLY JUST GET A BUNCH OF POWER LINE DEVOURING ICE!! SAY HOW MANY DEERS YOU DONE GOT??

12/4/2002 9:55:41 AM

Key West, FL

sorry about that blkcould, i just thought you were joking with the way you always typed with caps.

12/4/2002 5:33:54 PM