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Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

Just logged on to the EBAY site and saw the auction that everyone has beenn waiting for. This guy is looking for a minimum of $2,000 for his collection. This is absolutely ABSURD. This is a hobby, not a business. I can see charging for supplies but to charge for seed is ridiculous. Anyway, who the heck would by these seeds when you can get plenty of great seeds on this website and other growers for free. This post is from a true pumpkin grower, Ray Leonzi - who trades seeds for seeds.

11/27/2002 11:58:32 AM

Webster, NY

It will be interesting to see if anyone bids on it. I agree with you Ray. I think I have some pretty good seeds and even if I could afford it, I don't really see why I would have to.

Dave

11/27/2002 12:53:27 PM

Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

I could not agree with you more

11/27/2002 12:54:25 PM

North Mississippi

That makes me proud of all the "free" seeds that i have.Thanks Guys!

11/27/2002 1:15:35 PM

[email protected]

I would like to know if ebay is breaking any laws by aiding & abetting the violation of our countries patent laws. At the very least, Howard Dill should recieve a "cut of the action".

Steve

11/27/2002 1:39:39 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Last year I stayed up all night to be at the PNWGVG seed auction held here on BP with Dills permission,I can't remember exact numbers but there was about 50 people in the chat room freely bidding up to $400 for a seed.
If someone wants to pay that for a seed thats their business and good luck to them.

Personally I think a seed given to me for nothing by a genuine grower is worth more than any I can buy.

11/27/2002 1:39:40 PM

Key West, FL

A seed auction for a club is a completly different thing. It helps fund the club for the year. I know that the pgvg can only have $1000 in their bank acount at the end of the year. So pretty much all the money is being spent each year. It helps give more prize money at the competitions and pay for other expenses.

This thing on ebay is a completly different thing that is for person benifits and I do not agree with it.

Ben

11/27/2002 1:56:28 PM

Utah

the guy who is selling it ... bought it last year from
shymanski. he's not going to grow anymore because of family and other things/problems that have come up. not sure how much he paid... but i think it is around what he is asking. read elsewhere that he is just trying to re-coop his costs.
i think it is just an other example of why it's not a good idea to pay big bucks for seeds. grow what you got and be happy.
gordon

11/27/2002 2:43:15 PM

canal winchester ohio

$2,000 is not the minimum bid, that's the "buy it now option" the minimum bid is $750. Once someone makes a bid the buy it now option goes away.

11/27/2002 3:20:40 PM

canal winchester ohio

And I'll be willing to bet someone will buy it. Hell I bet someone was trying to come up with the money before the auction started......but came up short.

11/27/2002 3:45:09 PM

Ontario

If you want these auctions on ebay to stop, there is a simple solution. We all stick together and not bid a penny on it. Once opportunists realize there is nothing to gain by selling seeds these illegal sales will stop. And if you are seriously thinking about bidding stop and think for a moment, some of those seeds have been in three or 4 growers hands now are they the real deal. Plenty of free stuff out there or a the very least a minimum charge. Just my two cents not accusing anyone of anything.

drew

11/27/2002 4:29:13 PM

Ankeny, Iowa

I think some people have more money than sense. If they want to spend 750+ dollars on seeds that's their problem.

11/27/2002 4:50:02 PM

Pulaski Tn [email protected]

gRIPE GRIPE GRIPE!!! Y'ALL SOUND LIKE A BUNCH OF OLD WOMEN SITTIN IN THE BEAUTY SHOP WATCHIN WHO GOES INTO THE LIQUOR STORE.. WHO GIVES A BIG RATS HINEY IF HE SELLS HIS SEEDS ITS NOTHING OUT OF YOUR POCKET,I HOPE HE DOULBES HIS MONEY, IT SOMETIMES AMAZES ME WHAT A STINK PEOPLE TRY TO STIR UP WHEN SOMEONE HAS A CHANCE TO TURN A FEW GREEN BACKS.. HEY HE BOUGHT EM HE OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO SELL EM.
This post is from a true pumpkin grower, KEITH RIGGIN - who trades seeds for seeds.

11/27/2002 5:15:43 PM

Hey : Huff , I thought you & I were going to stay out of it, seems you broke first, so here is the view from here, was talking to Dill's, what Bernie is doing is wrong anyway you cut it, if he was fool enough to pay that amount last year & Huff yourself said he was going to give a lot away, I haven't seen it!!! He should cut his loses & not hurt the sport like he is trying to do.IT'S BREAKING THE LAW TO SELL AG SEED WITHOUT PREMISSION FROM DILL'S, That's the bottom line at present. Like it or lump it.

11/27/2002 6:34:22 PM

canal winchester ohio

Hi Bill, I thought I was explaining that the minimun was 750 & not 2,000. And that they're is always someone willing to buy. I wasn't expressing a opinion of what I feel, I've emailed Bernie & told him how I feel & that he'll still be a friend no matter what his final decision was. Just like I consider you a friend, although we might not always see eye to eye sometimes, I still think of you as a dear friend.......Paul

11/27/2002 6:49:52 PM

Cologne / Germany

Do you all see what is going on as soon as if money is involved? Discussions become "touchy", seeds become auction objects (without any permission), people offer $$$ for seeds, clouddoc (the ebay seller) is not posting anymore or giving an answer to the questions discussed here on BP....
TAKE THE MONEY OUT OFF THAT HOBBY!!!

11/27/2002 7:10:33 PM

Cologne / Germany

In addition, I like to thank Ken and John for their great job and all the generous growers who donate seeds to BP.com or distribute them for free for their unselfish common sense!

11/27/2002 7:24:53 PM

Montoursville, PA

When infringments like this appear all the patent holder has to do is challenge. eBay will cancel the auction.

Problem is often the patent holder is unaware. It remains the sellers responsibility to sell within the law. The system works nicely when the system is worked properly.

It also takes time and money to challenge. It may or may not be in the best interest to challenge. That is a business decision.

11/27/2002 9:19:27 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Has anyone let Howard know?

11/27/2002 10:42:37 PM

Indiana

That sounds about right from what my memory serves......1750 dollars would about cover a semester of my tuition...LOL

Now if you think about the seeds in the collection the individual "hot" seeds would sell for at least that much, not even thinking about all them seeds that have only grown 800 pounders. Not that I would ever think about paying even 10% of that for a seed.....well...maybe 10%, but not 20%.

I cant let you guys bash Bernie as an individual without giving a few cents worth......argue the illegality of his actions all you want. I dont judge people in those types of ways. Bernie gave me several dozen seeds for my genetics project as a gift, nothing in return. If any of my 801.5 x 974 Mettler crosses(same cross as 705 Stelts for the newbies) are any good, we will all have Bernie to thank. I for one wont look down on Bernie....top notch guy in my book.

Tom Beachy

11/28/2002 12:25:39 AM

ontario

Well said Drew...no bid best way.....

11/28/2002 9:44:24 AM

Nova Scotia

RE: Patent/Trademark Infringement
Variety: "Dill's Atlantic Giant"
Trademarks: "Atlantic Giant" and "Dill's Atlantic Giant"

Hello everyone and fellow growers. Regrettably, the time has come to start vigorously enforcing our intellectual property rights. We have just filed a notice of Infringement to eBay along with all our patent and trademark registrations. Ultimately, with the ever increasing popularity of giant pumpkin growing and auctions, some unfortunately have over stepped the boundary of sharing-trading seeds to capitalize upon my legal rights and the good will of most other Atlantic Giant pumpkin growers by selling seed of a US patented variety - "Dill's Atlantic Giant". Also, violating my International registered trademark rights to "Atlantic Giant" and "Dill's Atlantic Giant". Since 1978 we have sold seeds to growers to hopefully produce a giant pumpkin, not to reproduce them to sell or obtain seed from other growers to sell. Most of today's successful growers who trade, donate and send out seed to other collegues do it for the geniune sport/hobby of giant pumpkin growing. Their intentions are for you to grow it - not sell it! In the past, we have granted authorization to some non-profit pumpkin growing organizations or charity auctions to help them raise funds for their worthwhile cause, upon which they respectfully asked for our permission. Thank you for your attention to this matter and best wishes to everyone in 2003. Howard Dill

P.S. Our 2003 Premium seed list will be posted very soon at howarddill.com

11/28/2002 6:07:39 PM

Ontario

There you have it. For all those growers who thought it was okay to sell the seeds, its wrong and illegal. Thank you Howard, now maybe we can get back to having fun and not looking to make a buck

drew

11/28/2002 6:21:17 PM

Thank you Howard - It is finally official from the main man. This should end a lot of back & forth bickering between the people that really love this sport & those that are opportunist & don't give a damm about the future of this sport. I rest my case. Bill Van

11/28/2002 7:09:05 PM

Webster, NY

Howard, I'm glad you have set the record straight. My first seeds came from you, and the rest have been given to me throught he generosity of other growers. That's the way it should be. Have a great winter, and good luck in the spring.

11/28/2002 7:47:48 PM

Cologne / Germany

I think it´s a big honour to BP.com that Howard Dill as the patent holder himself is talking to all of us growers that way. That should make an end to all these "touchy" threads about "seeds for bucks" from the last weeks. I hope ebay will consider his complaint and stop that auction, right now it´s still online.

11/28/2002 8:36:16 PM

Washington, The Evergreen State

With all do respect to Howard Dill, and purely in the interest of truth, I don't believe that a pvp is actually a U.S. patent. The U.S. patent and trademark office does issue plant patents, but a pvp is different. And a pvp is not even issued by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. A pvp is issued by the U.S. Dept. of Agriculture. And I really don't know anything about Mr. Dill's International registered trademark rights, but it does appear that from doing a search of the currently active U.S. trademarks that although Dill's U.S. trademark for "Atlantic Giant" appears to be valid, that his U.S. trademark for "Dill's Atlantic Giant" just may have become inactive? Just where is ebay located anyway? Oh, and even though a pvp might not actually be a U.S. patent, his pvp still gives him very specific rights that are simular to a U.S. patent and should be respected.

11/29/2002 1:04:26 AM

[email protected]

Checked the auction. Says "bidding is closed for this auction". There were zero bids in history.

R.I.P.

Steve

11/29/2002 8:48:34 AM

Stratham NH

Hi all,
I have decided to cancel the seed auction on e-bay and will donate the seeds either to a charitable organization or to persons of my choosing.
I would like to "clear the air" about this situation. I never intended to create a problem or controversy, I am not a confrontational person.
I have been told, that since the seeds in this collection are no longer a pure strain, due to open pollination and crosses with unknown,& unpatented pumpkins & squash that the patent law simply cannot apply. I believe this to be true. In addition, there are no markings on the seed envelopes indicating that the seeds are patented.

However, for me, none of this is important. My personal philosophy is that it is not the letter of the law, but the SPIRIT OF THE LAW, that matters. Obviously, the spirit of the law, as evidenced by our AG growers opinions, is that the seeds should not be sold and I bow to that opinion. Thank you! Bernie

11/29/2002 8:54:44 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

You are doing the right thing Bernie.

11/29/2002 9:10:21 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Here's another sale.....Open for discussion.
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/msgboard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=27747

11/29/2002 10:04:30 AM

Quebec,Canada

I know, seen it and I am just ignoring this one........TOTAL NONSENSE

11/29/2002 10:43:57 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Someone just informed me that Dave was joking. My bad, sorry Dave. No disrespect intended.

11/29/2002 10:44:37 AM

Ann Arbor, Mi

Bernie.....I would like to say to you....Thanks for doing the right thing, you're a good man....Bob Wells

11/29/2002 10:55:07 AM

Quebec,Canada

I agree, happy to hear about your decicion that was made.

11/29/2002 11:04:40 AM

Washington, The Evergreen State

Clouddoc, a pvp is not a U.S. patent. But a pvp still gives Dill specific rights as to hybrids produced from his "Dill's Atlantic Giant" seeds. And supposedly Dill's "Atlantic Giant" seed is a non pvp variety. But since he has a U.S. trademark on the words "Atlantic Giant" Dill also has rights as to the use of his trademark.

11/29/2002 12:18:11 PM

Midwest

Has anyone actually read the PVP description? I think it would be great if someone would post the full description here.

11/29/2002 12:34:03 PM

Hey Bernie; you are doing the right thing, you are a true pumpkin fantic, the sport comes first, I'm proud to know you, please let Huff know of your decision, he was quite upset over this issue & shouldn't have been. Bernie; you now deserve respect, it's hard to lose that kind of money but you are a better man because of your decision & I'm sure the pumpkin world will benfit because of you. Thank's

11/29/2002 7:20:47 PM

Jonny jonny: Go home & bury your head, your nothing but a (can't say it here) I'm sure you can put a name to it.

11/29/2002 7:24:18 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Here's some sites that address the PVP Certificate issue:
http://www.ptslaw.com/news/seeds-crops1.htm
http://www.nal.usda.gov/pgdic/Probe/v2n2/plant.html
http://www.card.iastate.edu/publications/texts/01wp275.pdf(above is in PDF Format)
*Here's Mr. Dill's PVP certificate online at the PVP Certificate office.There are links on the page to more info than what's shown.....http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/showpvp.pl?8500204

11/29/2002 7:32:06 PM

Washington, The Evergreen State

I'm sorry you feel that way Poppy. But the problem is yours and not mine. Personally I would prefer to get along.

11/29/2002 9:18:27 PM

Midwest

Thanks Kyle.Your last link indicates there is a 10 page document that was filed. I think it would be fascinating to see the whole document and learn about the process by which a plant can be patented.

11/29/2002 9:55:11 PM

Ga.

Hey Bill Van,,KEEP YOUR COMMENTS TO YOURSELF!! Thats just the kind of crap we dont need here..Not the first time you have got out of line!!

11/30/2002 8:46:11 AM