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Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

I am experimenting on what is the most efficient way to start the plants indoors. I have old seed from years ago and was going to start experimenting. Can anyone tell me how the Advanced Startig Method works. Ray Leonzi

11/20/2002 8:07:31 PM

Knopp, Germany

Here is a link to Joe Ailts advanced seed starting method:
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=66

11/21/2002 1:39:37 AM

Knopp, Germany

I tried this method using 20 seeds from one of my pumpkins this year. The results were, that out of the 20, about 8 made it out of the shell without damage, and of those 8, 6 actually germinated. It took about 24 hours to see the root growth and 48 hours before they were big enough to put in potting soil. I have planted two of them. The biggest has 2 true leaves with a third starting to grow. This is on a window sill in the house with bad light. It is 15 days old.

11/21/2002 1:49:10 AM

Knopp, Germany

I am now trying the method of simply filing the outside edges on 4 seeds to see what happens. So far after 48 hours 2 of 4 seeds are showing root growth, about 2". One has barely stared, less then half inch and one has not shown any growth.

11/21/2002 1:51:34 AM

Bristol, ME ([email protected])

I also have played around with the advanced method. I've found that even if you only soak the hulled embryo for an hour, they almost always are up in 3 days. I've never had one not come up, but I have noticed that they tend to look a bit more ratty for a while than conventionally planting the seed.
Just my nickel...

11/21/2002 5:10:32 AM

Sydney, Australia

I also tried the advanced seed start method and wasn't happy with it. Seedlings grew OK but didn't seem healthy when they came out of the potting mix. I filed my seeds until a different layer was revealed, except at the root tip. Then soaked them in hydrogen peroxide 3% solution straight out of the bottle for about 6 hours. They were totally submerged between 2 containers. Then planted in potting mix. 10 out of 11 were up and healthy in 4 days. The hydrogen peroxide sizzles all the mould etc off. Also the oxygen is said to help germination. Ben

11/21/2002 5:29:10 AM

Southern Illinois

hello ray,what i will do with mine,i will put mine in a big bowl fill it up with warm to hot water let them soak all night,next mourning dump all the water out,soak the bounty towel with water and lay on top of the seed,and put them some where dark,and keep them damp,dont let water stand in the bowl,then when they germinate dont ad much water,just keep them moist,they will germinate if they are still good seed.

11/21/2002 7:13:22 AM

[email protected]

Hi Ray,
I've used a similar method (paper towel inside a mason jar) for several crops including "Prizewinner" & "Red Max" pumpkins. We used Zip-Loc baggies one year too. Personally I don't believe it enhances germination. But it's a lot more fun to "see the pop". My wife & I did this when we were in the "early lean years" so as not to waste any of the soil-less mix or peat pots on non-viable seeds.
We did it again 2 years ago so my son could witness the miracle of plant birth.
Being as 2003 will be our first AG season, we'll probably do a few this way for the "excitation factor".
The down side is the possibility that damage can be done when placing the germinated seedling into pots for grow-on. It takes sharp vision & good hand/eye coordination to move many seedlings without damage.
I've heard of using tweezers. But the method I like here is to moisten the seedling with a mister just enough for it to "stick" to the side of an old butter knife that has been reasigned to the garden bench. A small drop of water will hold the seedling onto the flat surface. The seedling is then slid down the blade with a worn chopstick (or similar), & into the waiting hole.
This poses a problem though for those who wish to dust the seedling with fungicide dusts. I use liquid fungicides before & after planting in the hole, so it doesn't matter that a dust could be removed.

Steve (down the road a piece)

11/21/2002 7:14:40 AM

Deer Park, WI

To answer your question directly, the advanced seed starting method works by delivering water directly to the endosperm and embryo of the seed, bypassing the protective seed coat. This method is simply a way of accelerating the germination process. I cannot conclusively say that it will increase your % chance of germination, but when considering the logic behind the method, I am lead to believe it may. I would suggest that each grower develop their own means seed care after removing the seed coat. The method I offered is one of many different ways to go about it. The focus of the article is seed coat removal, after that point, I encourage each to do what they feel best for their seeds.

11/21/2002 8:42:06 AM

Knopp, Germany

being a new grower i screwed up taking the coat off on at least the first five seeds. after i got the hang of it, my success was much better. i can tell you that from the two ways i tested this fall, taking the coat off first was the most successful and the fastest for germination. on the filing method, i believe i could have filed off more of the outer coat then i did this time, that will be my next test, to file more coat off, and see how quickly they germinate.

BTW - thanks to people like Jose, that have taken the time and energy and invested it in 'How to" articles, I have found a truly fun hobby with expertise a mere mouse click away. Thanks to all for their input on this chain....owen

11/21/2002 9:10:59 AM

Tipp City, Ohio

I used the advanced seed starting method last year. Once as a trial from older seeds and once for the actual seeds that I was to plant. 30 seeds: 30 germinated....Tom

11/21/2002 10:08:11 AM

Webster, NY

One other thing I noticed. If you have a seed with a black spot on the shell, when trying to germinate this seed the mold will spread and the seed will lost. If you remove the shell using the advanced seed starting method, plant will grow fine. I had two seed with the "black spot" and tried the ASM on one and the conventional method on the other. The ASM one worked fine and grew well, the conventional method started to germinate but never made it.

Dave

11/21/2002 10:28:54 AM

Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

Are there any negative side effects to the plants future growth using this method. What was the biggest you have grown using this method, anyone. Ray Leonzi

11/21/2002 11:09:04 AM

Edmonton, Canada

None that I'ver ever noticed, unless you do damage to the seed.

11/21/2002 12:28:32 PM

Sydney, Australia

Hydrogen peroxide sizzles off all spots leaving a perfectly clean seed. I'm guessing it kills all mould etc. Worked for me.... Ben

11/21/2002 4:49:30 PM

Deer Park, WI

Ray- In my mind this has absolutely no effect on the future growth of the plant or fruit. Like I said earlier, all you are doing by using this method is speeding up the germination process. If you need numbers to back this up, here you go- My first year growing growing AG's was also the when I wrote the article. I had a 705lb fruit split in August, on track for 950+. I ended the season with another 798lb fruit. Both were the result of the Advanced seed starting method.

11/22/2002 8:28:59 AM

Webster, NY

Boily, I have a few seeds from this year with the dreaded black spot. I would like to give the hydrogen peroxide method a try. How dilute do you make your solution? How long do you soak them? If they are soaked for a short period of time and are clean, can they be dried and stored again?

Thanks..
Dave

11/22/2002 9:01:20 AM

Sydney, Australia

Dave, I used it straight out of the bottle.....3% solution. I soaked for 6 hours, and all the mould vanished by then. I had also filed the seeds. The hydrogen peroxide had enlarged the seeds in that time so I'd say they would have to be planted right away. Had very healthy seedlings and 10 of 11 germinated in 3-4 days. Seed coats came off very easily.....Ben

11/22/2002 5:05:22 PM

In the shade - PDX, OR

I really enjoyed the advanced seed starting method. I thought it was really easy to do and I got great results. (100% germination & it was super quick)
I think the toughest part for the seedling's life is just to get out of the seed coat.
You just need to be careful when removing the seed coat and extra special care not to damage the endosperm. (the tip)
For anyone attempting this method for the first time, I would recommend practicing on some less valuable seeds just to get the hang of it. Once you got it down, it is super simple & very convenient.

11/22/2002 5:45:46 PM

[email protected]

Good points. I have seen the result of torn cotyledons that got hung up in seed coats. The resulting seedling get's set back. Sometimes pretty severely. I guess if the grower has very few seeds of a desireable type, this would be a good idea.

Are the AG seed coats as tough to shed as they look? All my experience has been with Prizewinner & Red Max. Those seeds are so easily obtained, I always place 2-3 per hill. Then the weak get culled. This won't be possible next year with 2 of the types I have only 4 seeds of each. These I may have to try it on.
Hmmmmm
Steve

11/22/2002 9:46:27 PM

Caceres, Spain

I made some tests germinating completelly peeled seeds, intact, surface broken and edges filed ones, in the same environment: I didn't find significatives differences, nor in germination time, neither in seedling vigor.
With this method you don't have to remove the seed coat after germination, but you have to do it when is closed and dry, wich is defenetly harder. I think if you have a lot of practise peeling off (many people love to eat squatch seeds, they are good to expulse internal worms!) ASM is good for you, but if you haver tiller fingers as me........ Hmmmmmmm.
Don

11/23/2002 1:25:45 AM

Caceres, Spain

By the way, don't you think the starting mixture is more crucial for seedling success?, if it has soil on it or not, compost, sand, vermiculite,if you desinfected the soil in your oven before add it to the peat. Some master gardener friend of me says that is good for the plant to contact with a little of her future pacth soil as soon as possible, in the pot. He also says that some first class home made compost (fast and aireated composted) in the mixture works on seedling safe.
Don

11/23/2002 1:37:17 AM

Garden State Pumpkins

another thing I noticed but not sure of is to keep the towel orientation the same if you check the progress of germination. flipping the towel over or reversing it's position may...and I'm not conclusive on this, may cause the new root tip to corkscrew...It would seem to me that a heating mat hung on a wall with the root tips pointed down may avoid this...something I'll try this winter for practice. I know some will corkscrew naturally but I had a few do it and I thought this might be the problem. Chuck

11/25/2002 7:29:59 AM