Message Board - BigPumpkins.com

Sydney, Australia

I've found a product at my local farm supply place called Companion. It is diluted and watered into the soil and is full of Bacillus GBO3 microbes that forms colonys amongst the root system. Apparently they crowd out bad pathogens and give plants awesome root systems. I read somewhere that Geneva Emmons uses similar products.........and look at her results. I'm really keen to crack the 660 pound Australian record this year, so I'm looking for ways to give me a better chance. Only problem is its expensive. $240 for a gallon of the concentrate. And it has a useby date around a year. Its meant to be watered in every 3 weeks, around the root zones. Will a product like this help me grow bigger fruit???? Or is it a waste of money? If I only hit the 845 Bobier plant with it there would be a lot wasted, but I could hit all of my 10 plants with it and the box would last one season. Cost of $24 per plant doesn't sound too expensive...... Also the Agronomist recommended after fruit set to use Giberelic acid(plant hormone), which would delay ripening of the pumpkin hopefully squeezing out more fruit growth. Also expensive. Anyone used Giberelic acid??? Must get the fruit to weigh over 660 pounds!!!!! Thanks......Ben

11/17/2002 4:46:41 AM

HEAVY GROWER

Southern Illinois

ProGibb 4% IS A PLANT GROWTH REGULATOR,WITH GIBBERELIC ACID,PROGIBB PLUS 2X IS A PLANT GROWTH REGULATOR,WITH GIBBERELLIN A 3,AS FAR AS EXTEND HARVEST THERE ARE ALOT OF PLANT GROWTH REGULATORS ON THE MARKET THAT WILL JUST DO THAT EXTEND HARVEST FOR UP TO 7 TO 14 DAYS,FOR A EXAMPLE APPLE GROWERS USE RETAIN PLANT GROWTH REGULATORS TO EXTEND THEIR HARVEST,IT IS A EXTREMELY POTENT PLANT GROWTH REGULATOR THAT IS PRODUCED BY FERMENTATION,AVG INHIBITS THE ENDOGENOUS PRODUCTION OF ETHYLENE IN PLANT TISSUE,ETHYLENE AFFECTS PLANT PROCESS SUCH AS FRUIT MATURATION,RIPENING,AND ABSCISSION,ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING BENEFITS MAY BE ASSOCIATED WITH THIS HARVEST DELAY,NATURAL ENHANCEMENT IN COLOR AND SIZE,MAINTAINS FRUIT FIRMNESS,AND FRUIT QUALITY,AND ENHANCED STORAGE POTENTIAL,I HAVE BEEN PLAYING AROUND WITH MANY PLANT GROWTH REGULATORS AND I HAVE FIGURED OUT ALOT OF GOOD THING BY USING THEM,COLOR,EXTEND HARVEST,FRUIT SIZE,GREAT PLANT GROWTH,I HAVE FIGURED WHICH ONE TO USE,THAT WILL HELP MY 1,000 POUND PATCH NEXT YEAR,TIMING MEANS ALOT WHEN USING THESE CHEMICALS,AS FAR AS COMPANION,MY COUSIN WAS UP FROM DONIPHAN MISSOURI THE OTHER DAY SHE HAD A JUG OF NOT SURE BUT IT DID THE SAME THING,AND IT ONLY COST 10 DOLLARS,I WILL EB VISITING MY AUNT TODAY IT IS AT HER HOUSE ,I WILL GET THE NAME OF THE COMPANY AND PHONE NUMBER AND POST IT LATER IN THE DAY,AS FAR AS THAT 845 I WOULD NOT DO MUCH TO THAT JUST USE SOME GOOD FERTILIZER AND SPRAY,AND LET IT GROW,IT SOUND TO ME THE 845 GROWS TO FAST WITH OUT TO MUCH HELP.

11/17/2002 7:53:46 AM

Ben,

Is there a way you can post a link that will display a "guarnteed analysis" &/or the name brand of the product?
Bio-stimulants manufacturers are not required by law in the US to disclose this info in the same way they are for conventional NPK type fertilizers. I know. I work for a large US fertilizer company. This lack of information makes it almost impossible to predetermine the results of using a product. And there HAS to be a major difference between anything that costs $US10/gal & $240/gal, regardless of exchange rates.
For the record, most biostimulant manufacturers print amino acid contents that often read like a phone book. But there is no documented university evidence that these do anything. As has been discussed here previously, it is the giberelins & other auxins that makes the buggers perform. So they are really the only %'s we need concern ourselves with. These can be naturally deived or synthesized. The plants don't care.

Steve

11/17/2002 11:46:07 AM

HEAVY GROWER

Southern Illinois

the size of the jug it come in will make the difference,i did not mention any thing about a gallon.

11/17/2002 12:26:32 PM

http://66.155.1.2/pdf_files/hort_spec_sheets/Companion%20-%20Microbial%20Inoculant.PDF

Is this the stuff?
I'm not familiar with this though I know the Co. I have a warehouse about a mile away. I'll do some research.

Steve

11/17/2002 1:29:00 PM

Don Quijote

Caceres, Spain

Hi Boily, I've recently been studying the same things you are asking about. And I agree with HH and Tremor. Two things I've found, first, they can help us; second, nobody knows how; and then the results are not always the ones you wanted. They work in fruit trees pretty well, but in that business you want many fruits along an extend flowering season, wich is different than AGP. The problem I see is that you (Like me), as a warm country grower, are looking for a delay on maturity and those hormones (gyberelins, ANA, ANA amida, indolacetic acid) can bring it back or forward, depending on many things, like timing, temperature..., hard to controle. And defenetly we don't want the risk of bring it forward. I would do experiments but not with your best plants.
Concernig the first thing you comment about, to improve the simbiotic microbial soil life always is good, because they compete and sometimes kill soil pathogens. There are many different stuff, fungus, bacteria, and many sources, some cheap, some expensive. You can buy good pricey products, but I believe one of the best and cheapest ways to get them is with a well equilibrated and composted manure. You can find inside a pile a number of that good fellows. But the manure has to have a good carbon/nitrogen balance prior to compostage and the process has to happen with enough air and humidity, easier to get in 1-2 yards piles than in bigger ones. Then if you make with part of it tea compost and use it to fertirrigate weekly, your simbiotic microbes won't let the pathogens space to develop.
Uf!

11/17/2002 3:45:01 PM

Sydney, Australia

The company has a website that I haven't looked at yet. I will though later on tonight. It is www.spraygro.com.au
There is also an email address on the pamphlet [email protected]
Thanks HH, tremor and Don for your info. I'm not going to part with $240 too easily.....LOL

Ben

11/17/2002 7:37:15 PM

Here it is.

http://www.spraygro.com.au/companion.html

The same as the one I found earlier that is made in New York. If I can this week, I'll try to determine the cost of buying it from Growth Products. After all these years, I'm not the most popular person at their place LOL, but competition makes strange bed-fellows sometimes.

The published data from American plant science schools all look pretty good. Like you mentioned, the bacillus innoculates the rootzone very competitively & excludes root borne diseases. This is probably the only way this product encourages rooting though. Probably not as a direct influence or stimulant. But rather either through a symiotic reletionship, or by keeping them healthier than they might otherwise be. It is primarily being touted as a bio-fungicide.

Like Don said, I wouldn't trust it on my best plants. I'd rather use it on a backup. Preferably one that has an identical partner that is also not treated. So as to judge the real impact. This can only be done with a check plant (or plants).

I would be very interested to hear how this works out. Plant science is on the cusp of a new age of bio-engineered organisms that will influence plant growth in ways we have yet to imagine. This could be a vey small first step in that direction.

HH, was the product at your Mom's the same thing (bacillus subtilis GB03)? I'd like to try this stuff too. But that's a costly experiment for a hobbyist!

Steve

11/17/2002 8:32:09 PM

Sydney, Australia

Now here's an unbelievable story!!!! I do brick paving working for myself for income. Tonight I went out to do a paving quotation nearby, a cold contact. Somehow I mentioned in the conversation that I'm growing giant pumpkins. And the questions began.......who, what, why, how, where. This guy Aaron was fascinated. Turned out he was an agronomist who drove around all day selling farm products! He asked what I fertilized with, and I told him including seaweed(Maxicrop) Then he got out a bottle of natrakelp from his garage and gave it to me. It was a 5L sample, worth $80 and said to be the best on the market, much better than maxicrop!!! Told him I was researching whether to use Companion on my plants. He said definately, and came back from his garage with a litre sample bottle and gave it too me too!!!!!!! About $75 worth.
He is going to hook me up with other free samples too, maybe even some Giberelic acid....and if I run out of Companion he will get me some more.......for nothing. What a guy to meet hey........ Turned out I gave him a cheaper quote and got the job. 4 hours of talk later I headed home in disbelief! Tomorrow all plants will get some bacillus GBO3 at no cost!!! Can't hurt to try....... Is that luck or what?

11/18/2002 8:05:46 AM

pumpkinpicker

Ann Arbor, Mi

Found this at:
www.johnnyseeds.com
Kodiak HB...contains bacillus sudtilis...apply to seed before planting 1 lb does up to 200lbs of seeds.
T-22 Planter box...To protect against fusarium, pythium, and rhizoctonia apply to seeds.
T-22 wettable powder...combines Topshield and Rootshield
Bob

11/18/2002 8:12:49 AM

Sydney, Australia

This sure is all interesting info. Lets hope that the plants go on to be super healthy all season with their microscopic helpers......
Steve: taking a small step towards the new age of using bio-engineered organisms is very exciting....
Now I just need to get some fruit set!!!

11/18/2002 8:15:19 AM

kruger

go boily!!!

11/18/2002 9:23:44 AM

Alexsdad

Garden State Pumpkins

Luck of the Irish be with ya! Sounds exciting! Grow em Big!

11/18/2002 9:41:16 AM

HEAVY GROWER

Southern Illinois

COMPANY INDEX--ABBOTT LABORATORIES CHEMICAL & AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS,1-800-323-9597,FAX 847-937-3679,EXT NO 4712,THIS COMPANY IS THE BEST WHEN IT DEALS WITH GIBBERELLIC ACID--GIBBERELLIN A3--GIBBERELLIN A4,A7.

11/18/2002 11:49:46 AM

What a stroke of luck! Ben, I hope this is a sign of how the rest of your season will go. 661 lbs or better!!!

Will it be possible to do a check/no check comparison?

Steve

11/18/2002 2:59:26 PM

gordon

Utah

I have heard of growers trying Giberlic acid a few years
back with no favorable results. I know there has been talk of it on the Mallorn/Hort.net archives.
gordon

11/18/2002 3:51:55 PM

LIpumpkin

Long Island,New York

Hey Boily...Why do I get the feeling this brickwork job is going to take FOREVER to complete?....lol.....G

11/18/2002 5:37:13 PM

pumpkinjoe2001

comstock Park Mi

I have tried several forms of Giberlic acid a few times at a few different rates. I would not recommend it for pumpkins. If you do want to use GA Do not get it on the pumpkins or you will regret it. I had some drift onto my 940 this summer that had a 400+ growing on it. Within a few days it when down the same way my trial treatments did
Joe K

11/18/2002 6:53:08 PM

Joe,
GA is very rate & time sensitive. I often treat seeds with good result. But I planned to try a couple select plants this year.
Do you remember what kind, the rate, & the stage of developement the applications were made?
My theory was to try to jump start vines early )as I've already done successfully 2 & 3 years ago). Then lay back off a bit.
Then step it back up after fruit set in an attempt to prolong the fruit developement stage to keep the fruit growing as long as possible into Sept. For this I wouldn't treat the fruit. But then I wouldn't have known that GA would harm the fruit before reading your post. What sort of damage?
Steve

11/18/2002 7:55:44 PM