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Montoursville, PA

Will someone offer factual guidance as to how much lime, of what type lime, it takes to move one number towards a PH of 7.0, in a five hundred square foot patch? Related extension of question: 1. What adjustment may be expected between October application and April the following spring. 2. Should one add more lime in the spring tilling? 3. Can a reliable two number adjustment be made over just one winters attempt to reach the goal of near 7.0 PH?

10/12/2002 11:29:15 AM

Sask, Canada

Docgipe:

The most common way to raise the pH level of your soil (make it less acidic) is to add ground/powdered limestone.

Apply it in the fall because it takes several months to alter the pH. Wood ash will also raise the pH level, and it works more quickly than limestone and contains potassium and trace elements. But if you add too much wood ash, you can drastically alter the pH and cause nutrient imbalances. For best results, apply wood ash in the fall, and apply no more than 10 pounds per 500 square feet, every two to three years.

To raise the pH level of your soil by about one point:
- In sandy soil: add 15 to 20 pounds of ground/powdered limestone per 500 square feet.
- In loam (good garden soil): add 35 to 40 pounds per 500 square feet.
- In heavy clay: add 40 to 50 pounds per 500 square feet.

I would not try to alter your Ph in the spring and you may be able to alter enough to reach your two number adjustment by doubling the above applications for ground/powdered limstone as I gave you above, however I would take it over two years. As well unless you are familiar with and have used Wood ash before I would go with the ground/powdered limestone, I just wanted to point out that there are other choices in raising one's Ph.

Hoped this helped...
TTYL
Ernie
Giant Veggies

10/12/2002 8:24:30 PM

Puyallup, WA

docgipe,
Have you had your soil professionally tested? You are sure that it is at an "honest" 6.0?

How much the pH changes depends on your soil type and the amount of rain you will receive this winter. pH drops with alot of rain. Personally, I would have it tested in the fall as well as the spring.

A 22'X 22'patch is quite small so it will not take much dolemite lime....two 20# sacks. Rototill it in and check your soil again in late March.

10/12/2002 10:16:08 PM

Montoursville, PA

Stan Yes I have had Penn State test my soil. Everything they said came back in pounds per acre. My PH was 5.5 as average mixed soil was tested for the patch. I collected from five areas and sent in one sample. I have added tons of manure buried under the top ten inches. The top ten inches holds about 20% humus consisting of aged leaf mold, mushroom waste, compost, ironite 1.5 pounds per 100 square feet, and is covered with 10" of growing rye. The rye will go down with the lime and fall leaf additions and be replanted. My well water tests at 6.4 PH being drawn from limestone caves under my 5.5 PH Sandy Loam.


....I know just enough about limestone to be dangerous. The gentleman from Canada has cleared up a number of points. I'm a newbe to pumpkins. I believe the patch condition and the feeding management is at least as important as the seed genetics.

.....Under whatever patch condition I can work up will go a drip irrigation system to deliver the feeding and water program. The irrigation will be about ten inches deep to avoid ambient peaks and pull roots down and away from the surface in an even moisture bed. I plan to use a header and five drop lines.

10/13/2002 9:24:03 AM

Montoursville, PA

Actually my bed is about 25 X 55. Presently trying to make a decision to go with just one or two plants back to back XMas Tree pattern in 2003. I have only one location that I can use.

The patch gets equal sun end to end being laid out North/South. I read both sides of the big patch small patch story here. The ends of the main could run out of patch without causing problems on the one end.

10/13/2002 9:37:03 AM

Puyallup, WA

docgipe,
Well, 1375 sq.ft. is more like it! It has been my experience, that the more manure I add, the lower drops the pH.
I'd go with "back to back" plantings.....that's what I do.
I am a "fan" of Ironite as well. 15# per thousand sounds about right.
BTW, I add more lime in the spring as well.
OH Yes....you'll get your soil so "supercharged" that you will start "blowing them up" like I did this year!

10/13/2002 12:11:26 PM

Montoursville, PA

Stan I have a son in Portland to whom I have sent the books and a couple of good seeds. He is one heck of a gardener. Signed him up with your growers association. So far I feel like I am pushing a limp vine. We shall have to wait and see. There is no reason why he should not do this!
Can't push a limp vine!

10/13/2002 12:42:35 PM

Puyallup, WA

I'd be happy to contact him if you will initially send me his e-mail address, I will write him. I am going to Portland this Thursday and Friday for a continuing education session. I can contact him in person if he chooses.

10/13/2002 1:13:07 PM

Montoursville, PA

Stan You folks out West are just great. In this case however I think this dad should not push. I hatched and educated us a doctor. Wish he would just jump in and grow for the fun of it but at this moment it seems he may not.
I only wish I had the space and location he enjoys. We tried. He would be a good grower indeed. He could afford the insanity too. :)

10/13/2002 4:49:11 PM

Montoursville, PA

Stan I would like to blow one up at about 1200#. I think I have the potential to do that. See sad scout. See scout bury remains. See scout cry. When I have to line the patch with block to keep in the topsoil I will know I am getting close to the ultimate bed humus conditions. As of this moment the only thing Penn State is calling for is PH up to 7.0 and 75# N. per acre. Everything else is in the ultimate condition side of the bar graph. Funny....they don't even mention constant moisture,warm water, wind protection and bury the vines.

10/13/2002 5:00:42 PM

Puyallup, WA

docgipe,
Just let me know if/when I can be of service. As the saying goes....."Unsolicited advice, stinks!"

10/13/2002 11:57:59 PM

Montoursville, PA

Geese Stan I have read till the eyes turned red and the head sagged from dead weight. This site is so full of helps even to the point a guy or gal may make an intellegent guess just getting in the middle of the advise.
....Your lime advisement and Giant Vegies from Canada plus my Penn State advisement all come together as darn near the same advise. Penn State had wonderfull non-growers advise in addition. Dig this! They wanted me to lay down a two inch band of lime just under the roots and tap roots plus drill a line two inchs off the two sides of the tap roots.
That is typical non-grower advisement in my mind. The question is who in the heck could do that at what price anyway.

Today I melded the advise you all gave and put the granular fast distribution lime on the patch. It can lay there untill we get the leaf cover ready to till in. If all predictions are reasonably correct I will plant in 6.5 -7.0 somewhere. I can test in the spring and hit it again if it makes sense. This bed is about up to my best effort. Now I am starting to look around for a low boy for next year's weigh in trip. :)

10/14/2002 4:03:16 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

Just a quick one here docgipe...Granular lime is not advised because it has a detrimental affect on worms! Don't ask me why? something about some additive used for granular formulation my worm guy said use the powder! Chuck

10/14/2002 7:36:37 PM

Montoursville, PA

Well the powder has a detrimental effect on me lungs and hundred dollar boots to boot. The worms loose. Poor worms.

10/16/2002 9:35:07 AM