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Knopp, Germany

i been reading about ott measurements in the how to section and noticed that Len S. and Bart T. disagree on the circ. measurement. Len goes to great lengths to advise that the circ. measurement will not always be parallel to the ground and should be the largest circumference, whereas Bart T. says the measurement should be parallel to the ground. How are ya'll doing it parallel to the ground or not?

8/26/2002 9:01:43 AM

Deer Park, WI

I say forget about parallel. The idea is to measure from stem to blossom, and back to the stem again. It doesnt matter if you are tilted 1 degree off of parallel. You want the largest possible measurement of the fruit, and usually the stem-blossom-stem way of measuring gives the biggest number. If not, you have a severly deformed pumpkin that will cause people to point and snicker when you bring it to the weighoff.

8/26/2002 10:25:46 AM

Connecticut, USA

Len's article superseeds Bart's.

If I remember correctly, there is an editor's note in Bart's article stating something to that effect.

Len is credited for a lot of the measurements that made the chart possible. So, since he does the largest circ., so should you.

John

8/26/2002 12:07:30 PM

Indiana

hey, alright!!!! I have done parallel....the largest circ adds 50 more pounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looking into the ideas behind it though, parallel does look like the best idea. The idea of a measurement system is to attempt to get a spherical comparison to the fruit...aka volume conparison. If you measured from stem to blossom, say stem is high, and blossom is low, you alter the other 2 OTT measurements right angles with the other planes. Now that is my thought and I'm stickin to it...LOL I respect both growers, and it really isnt an argument like some have made it look. They just disagree.

Tom Beachy

Tom Beachy

8/26/2002 12:29:28 PM

South Hill, Virginia

I measured my pumpkin my pumpkin parallel to the ground and it was 125 circumference which is 455 pounds. One minute later I measured it at its widest point and it was 133 inches or 537 pounds!!! Amazing, a weight gain of 82 pounds in one minute!! Can anyone tell me if this is some kind of record? I ran away from the pumpkin real fast because I was afraid that at that rate it may just grow over top of me.

Actually I got a theory on weight approximation: Your pumpkin weighs whatever it weighs regardless of how you measure it. Just measure it the same way every time and if the measurements are getting larger then its growing, if they are staying the same then its not. If the measurements are getting smaller then stop measuring it to keep it from losing any more weight;)

8/26/2002 1:01:54 PM

South Hill, Virginia

P.S. The above posting was a joke. I didn't really "run" away from my pumpkin. I'm way too overweight to run.

8/26/2002 1:06:06 PM

Knopp, Germany

wasn't trying to start any contoversy. just trying to clarify the measurement that may be most accurate. two points:
1- the reason behind all of this is that i am a newbie with three pumpkins within a couple of inches, just trying to figure out which one to take to the weighoff.
2- i agree with svrichb, if it keeps on growing, don't matter how it is measured. he has repeatedly stated that he doesn't do a OTT, only circ. to see if it is growing, i agree with that.

actually i have a third point, both Bart T. and Len S. have brought one heck of a lot to this site and i am glad for that.

thanks all for the input, but i'm still not sure, parallel or not parallel that is the question, something along the lines of to be or not to be, that is the question.....

8/26/2002 1:30:11 PM

Long Island,New York

If the chart tabulations in the STELPFLUG CHART are a result of gajillions of pumpkins measured parallel to the gound at the widest point then It would follow that measuring the widest point parallel to the ground would be the way to go.If Len says to measure parallel to the ground it would follow that the chart reflects pumpkins measure that way........c'mon...everyone cheats when they measure anyway !!! ;) .........G

8/26/2002 2:51:27 PM

South Hill, Virginia

I agree with you Owen. I really appreciate the work people have done on these charts. It's nice to be able to just take a measurement or three and get a real good idea what my pumpkin weighs.

G,

Is gajillions > gazillions? I thought he had gazillion measurments.

8/26/2002 3:19:00 PM

Long Island,New York

He had a gazillion LAST year...and as you know, its updated every year with the info from each new years weights....now up to gajillions.

8/26/2002 4:03:10 PM

Deer Park, WI

Tom- I cannot believe your nerve. What a ridiculous statement to make. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Okay, I'm kidding. Just wanted to stir the pot a bit. I see your point regarding the measurment being a function of volume, but that leads me to wonder. Were the equations based on a volume calculation, or is it a linear equation where fruit measurements were plotted on a curve and a standard equation was developed? If they are indeed volume calculations, then parallel measurments may take precedence. If its a curve, then I assume Stem-blossom-stem is probably correct, as that is how the directions for measurment are described.

In your defense, Tom, I will throw this out there too: I have yet to see a stem-blossom-stem circumference measurment in my patch that under-estimated fruit weight. It always seems to predict way heavier than it actually is. A parallel measurment would seem to give a better representation of the "spherical" shape. This is due to the way pumpkins usually have high front ends and sloping rear ends. For fruits displaying these characteristics, parallel measurments could possibly provide a more accurate assessment of fruit weight.

8/27/2002 9:50:45 AM

South Hill, Virginia

Joze,

It's some sort of regression though I doubt it's linear. I would guess a power function of some kind.

Volume estimation would be interesting if you could approximate average pumpkin density with any accuracy.

8/27/2002 9:58:10 AM

ipswich, ma usa

How bout the day of the weigh off right before cutting the pumpkin free take two measurements. One parallel to the ground and the other at it's widest points. Then once it is brought to the weigh off take the actual weigh and see which technique it's closer to.

John (5150)

8/27/2002 10:09:09 AM

Webster, NY

Does the circumference measurment hold up for long pumpkins as well as more rounded pumpkins?

8/27/2002 10:26:20 AM

Cologne / Germany

Well, everyone is placing something under the pumpkin during the season - what about that: Take two metal panels, put a pressure sensor in between, place them below the fruit. Add some softer material on top, it´s too hard for the pumpkin. Check the values from the pressure sensor with a meter and convert them into lbs. Any electronic guys out there to realize that? I heard it´s a cheap scale and works.

8/27/2002 11:24:19 AM

Sloughhouse, CA

I can't believe how technical all these math majors get. I know I'm married to an engineer. Just stick your arms around the pumpkin and measure the "dang" thing and be glad its growing.

8/28/2002 2:41:29 AM

Chester Co., PA

Weight obtained from measurements is only approximate. It will be close, but its real value is when one system of charts and measurements is used consistently and can be compared throughout the season to gage growth rates and weight gain from day to day. Measure the same stem-blossom-stem path around the pumpkin every time, usually at the largest point whether parallel to the ground or slightly off.

8/28/2002 12:15:16 PM

Wallingford,CT

Long overdue for me to chime in here on this topic. Every year the same questions come up at this time about how to measure the pumpkins for the OTT measurements. I thought a light harted look at the answere with a few pictures would help to resolve the repeated questions. You need to remember why you are measuring the pumpkin..... cont.

8/28/2002 9:25:20 PM

Wallingford,CT

The answer of course is so that you can then take advantage of all the hard work done by Len Stelpflug. The biggest problem with my article was that it failed to give credit to Len for collecting all the data and creating his tables and equations. Without those there is no point in makeing the measurements. Now IF your going to use his tables then you must measure the pumpkins the way the data was collected. My article was based on the best information I had at the time. We all learn over time, thank you Len Stelpflug.

my articles was to try to keep new growers from trying to get the tape under the pumpkin, think about it, circumference?

Bart Toftness

8/28/2002 9:37:23 PM

Wallingford,CT

forgot to mention, Len and I have spoken about what I wrote. We agree it needed revision but I'm the one who never got around to it.

8/28/2002 9:40:39 PM