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Muddy Waters

http://worldwidegiantgrowers.com/Getting_started.html

Check Bottom of page I learned something new this winter I will be doing this to all my compost like twice a year now.

4/22/2013 7:57:09 PM

Seattle, WA

Great to see photos of people outside in their patch! I will say though that the use of trichoderma in mycorrhiza should be discouraged, not promoted. I also think Advanced Nutrients is one of the most disreputable companies in the world. I personally would never use their products, just for their shady business and marketing practices. Well, that and the fact that there are simply much better products on the market.

4/23/2013 3:18:31 PM

Piqua, Ohio

I heard Ron Wallace in person say he uses trichoderma in mycorrhiza, buried in the same trench. Don't want to start a pissing match, but you can't argue with results!! What are some of the shady business practices? I've been researching there products, but don't want to take a screwing? Thanks
Everyone selling different ferts say there's is the best, if that's true, then everyone's is the best!! How does one know who to trust and buy from?

4/24/2013 1:54:42 PM

Muddy Waters

Everybody has a right to there opinion.I can respect that.As for me the proof will be in the pudding.See ya at the scales.

4/24/2013 7:25:38 PM

Williamsburg,KY

Tad, why should the 'use of trichoderma in mycorrhiza' be discouraged?

4/25/2013 8:29:42 AM

Williamsburg,KY

Ok, I found my answer.

The main points to consider are:
When a plant has a well established mycorrhiza, the presence of trichoderma may be an additional benefit to the plant and to the rhizosphere, with no or low impact on the mycorrhiza itself.
If large quantities of trichoderma are present before the application of a mycorrhizal inoculum, then the antagonist role will inhibit the establishment of the mycorrhiza.
The mycorrhiza establishment can be easily verified by a simple laboratory procedure. On the contrary, no method is readily available to put in evidence the actual presence and efficacy of trichoderma in the ground.
Mycorrhiza should be built as early as possible in the plant life cycle. One application is enough: once established the mycorrhiza maintains itself. Trichoderma products may require repeated applications to maintain a certain level in the ground.

4/25/2013 8:41:24 AM

Seattle, WA

I know I'm going to get flack for saying this, and I mean no disrespect. I think there are some very talented and amazing growers in this group, but I really hate how just because a "heavy hitter" does something, it automatically trumps all scientific research on the subject and then the comeback is always "well it worked for so and so."

My entire point is that they may have had even better success through science and research.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2433271?uid=2&uid=4&sid=21102097566521

http://www.extremepumpkinstore.com/media/pdf/Mycorrhiza%20&%20Tricoderma.pdf

http://triscience.com/Species/Soil/the-inhibitory-effect-of-trichoderma-species-and-other-soil-microfungi-on-formation-of-mycorrhiza-by-laccaria-bicolor-in-vitro/doculite_view

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-8137.1987.tb00881.x/pdf

And Croley, that is exactly what I was trying to say. High P and Trichoderma have both been shown to inhibit COLONIZATION, but once colonization/infection has occurred then it would be perfectly fine to add trichoderma based on current research.

4/25/2013 4:42:02 PM

Seattle, WA

As for Advanced Nutrients, well they market openly and directly to the cannabis industry and have been banned from most hydro trade shows. The owner can no longer come back to the United States last I heard and is living in Canada.

As far as the quality of their products, well they're basically buying in ingredients for pennies from China and then turning around and selling them for 1000X markup in fancy bottles. They've been caught with low levels of toxins and also sell known carcinogens.

http://web.archive.org/web/20120125014904/http://www.integralhydro.com/flowerdragon.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20120304225213/http://www.integralhydro.com/advancednutrients.html

4/25/2013 4:53:31 PM

Torrance, Ca.

Man, I sure am glad I quit smoking pot 15 years ago.........

4/25/2013 5:07:53 PM

Sourthern Utah

i quit usung alfalfa this season,, in the patch,, but may still add a small amount in the tea mix ,, we r doing

4/25/2013 5:25:52 PM

Seattle, WA

I really like alfalfa as an N source, and it also contains triacontanal, a growth hormone.

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/ejournals/JARS/v36n3/v36n3-hinerman.htm

Not recommending this product, but it explains the benefits of alfalfa in simpler terms.

http://www.alfagrow.com/about.html

I use a small amount in my compost teas.

4/25/2013 6:34:10 PM

Omaha, Ne.

its not good to piss off the dope dudes.

4/25/2013 7:41:48 PM

Muddy Waters

lol

4/25/2013 7:48:34 PM

Muddy Waters

Well Im using there products extensively this year, as is Chris Kent.So time will tell if the the trip to China payed off for Advanced Nutrients.It certainly has worked well for Walmart! LOL! I find this all amusing.The tales grow taller on down the line.This is Wilba Goober with the green teeth.Saying Open up the door Bit$h! Let me In LOL.You use what you like,as will I & we will see when the puddins done.

4/25/2013 7:56:45 PM

Piqua, Ohio

Thanks for answering my questions Tad. All I'm saying is as giant growers we do things that science says is wrong and for some it works.

4/25/2013 9:26:52 PM

Torrance, Ca.

That's exactly how Ron and Dr. Bill said it in Vegas Josh.....

4/25/2013 10:01:50 PM

Muddy Waters

Science said I couldn't grow a 260.5 lb melon with a ph of 7.9

4/25/2013 10:04:22 PM

Muddy Waters

Science does not believe in God claims to disprove him.I dont put all my eggs in that basket.

4/26/2013 6:28:44 AM

Rhode Island

no disrespect intended tad but i think you are a blow hard.

people tend to listen to growers who have actually accomplished something vs just talking about it.dont be envious of others success.we are not flashes in the pan.

when you reach the point that you have helped as many growers as ron and i? then you can act like you know something.

pap wallace

4/26/2013 9:31:57 AM

Honesdale, Pennsylvania

LOL... attaboy Pap !! You da man. Love the way you beat around the bush when you are trying to say something :)

4/26/2013 9:41:15 AM

Seattle, WA

Handy,
Science actually shows that plants are able to regulate the pH in their rhizosphere based on their exudates, so this is not an actual contradiction. And science hardly disproves God, in fact many scientists are religious for the very fact that it can't disprove God. I consider myself a Christian.

Josh,
I agree it's good to challenge conventional wisdom, I'm just pointing out what has already been researched and studied. People can do what they want with the info.

Pap,
No disrespect intended? Followed by an insult? Classy...

Show me somewhere other than your magical patch where anything I've stated is inherently wrong. Just because I don't grow giant pumpkins doesn't mean I don't know how to grow plants. I spend much of my time studying soils and grow a ton of vegetables and other edibles at my farm. You have no idea who I've worked with or what I've accomplished. Feel free to read a link or two that I've posted and let me know where I'm wrong. Much easier to just do things like the "good old boys" say. Some of you guys are so dedicated to your products and their marketing claims that you won't hear anything else.

Don't get offended by me for challenging "conventional" pumpkin wisdom. For a sport that is supposed to be cutting edge on growing techniques, you guys sure can get worked up with someone posts an opinion you may not agree with. That's why I always back up my contentions with links and other information.

Feel free to do the same, rather than always just telling me, "this is what Ron and I do" like that means it must be right.

4/26/2013 1:35:35 PM

President - GPC

Proof iZ in the growing.... Soon as the photo post getZ approved...I'll post the link here.
As one can make their own interpretation and move on....

Two exact same seed tomatoes... one grown in ProMix only, The other, a mix of Mycos and Azo's. Tell me which one you like? I have also done similar on Cucurbita Maxima...I know what my test confirmed aZo well!

Tad your above link on Trich is ....well off again. We are growing pumpkins... not Black Spruce trees, ahh endo vs ecto..... I don't see the particular Myco species we use even listed within that article.

I believe the quote waZ from Ron that he uses both, but not in the same bag. It'Z a big world out there under the leaf canopy...in microbe land... And us "Good Ole Boy" pumpkin growers, we grow on the Xtreme level... .. Tad, Grow a few world recordZ first before you knock down our top grower of ALL time......Photos to post soon.....

4/26/2013 5:20:14 PM

Seattle, WA

Wiz,

Easy for you to jump on the bandwagon, you're not providing any proof either. A photo? Why not throw a testimonial in the mix as well? Those are very good ways of documenting legitimate data and results.

I've never commented about Azos, and I happen to use Mykos because it's the cheapest glomus intraradices I can my hands on.

So because my article doesn't directly relate to pumpkins, are you claiming that the species of endo you use (g. intraradices) doesn't have similar effect as stated in ALL the research showing inhibition of mycorrhizal spores by trichoderma? Did you bother looking at any of the other links?

How much of a kickback are you getting from Xtreme Gardening, because you seem to jump in and put me down on any thread that remotely relates to their products. Are they one of your sponsors? Or is it just because they sponsor the GPC?

For the record, their Mykos doesn't even have trichoderma in it, so I'm not sure why you're getting all worked up anyway. My ONLY comment about them was that there are other myco products on the market with much higher spore counts, and since you're trying to maximize plant growth you may want to consider that. Since I don't care if colonization takes longer because I'm planting regular veggies, the Mykos works great.

I actually dedicate my garden space to edibles because we are really looking to promote sustainability and local food in our area. Not an attack, just a personal choice.

Cheers,
Tad

4/26/2013 6:21:38 PM

Muddy Waters

Yes I dont want to be rude or argue pointless stuff.Surely not science which is a lot of theory.I dont want to attack people I dont even know & there reputations.I just want to grow giants & have fun.Great White last year got me through my first healthy season with pumpkins in a decade.So I dont understand the attack on there wonderful product.If you would spend more time trying new things with an open mind & less time busting my chops and others,you might have better results in the patch.I didn't follow the instructions on the jar.I thought I have serious disease issues here.I was told the trichoderma in Great White acts like a condom over the root, preventing disease.So I put my 2 brain cells together and figured I will re-inoculate the plant every 2-3 weeks all summer long.This way as the roots grow out into new soil they will have there rubbers on & keep there roots clean.lol Well it worked GREAT!Think outside of the box and dont believe everything you read.Have a great year!BTW You do live up to your name Your a Tad rude dude!lol

4/26/2013 7:50:18 PM

Torrance, Ca.

This is starting to remind me of a mycos post about this time last year.........

4/26/2013 8:02:28 PM

Seattle, WA

Handy,

I'm just sick of getting attacked on here when I post information, so yes, maybe my last post was a little rude, I apologize. You know, I've been on this forum for over 5 years now, and it used to be a great place to share ideas and information, but over the last year it's become dominated with certain individuals who make personal attacks when anyone posts something they might not agree with or might not support one of the corporate sponsors of the GPC. Whatever happened to having an open-minded forum where people can politely share their experiences and opinions? If I post my opinion, I'm told it's not valid because I've never grown a world record pumpkin. If I post links to research articles supporting what I say, I'm told it's wrong because science isn't always right. If it's not one of those two answers, then it's "well so-and-so did it this way" and he grew a world record so it must be best practice. Can you at least try and understand why this is frustrating to me?

I've always made a point to post where I'm getting my information and supported my opinion. Go back and look how this thread started.

I don't sell products on here, and I'll gladly help people with recipes or making their own brewers. I only speak to subjects where I feel I have knowledge or experience.

I happen to dedicate a lot of time and passion into soil and growing plants, it just may not be in growing giant pumpkins.

As for what you wrote about Great White (not even something we were discussing in this thread), I'm guessing you're probably right about the trichoderma. Did you ever consider trying a straight trich product? http://www.kelp4less.com/shop/trichoderma-inoculant-powder/

Trichoderma is much cheaper than mycorrhiza, which is why many manufacturers would add it to their products.


Tad

4/26/2013 8:12:38 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

I personally have always enjoyed your posts, Tad... outside the box. Not saying who is right or wrong, but the world isn't flat.

4/26/2013 8:28:47 PM

Omaha, Ne.

Where's your dairy Tad? I would just like to see where your coming from. Is this a big hitter discussion? Or is this like amelio telling growers how to grow. I just would like to be clear.

4/26/2013 10:11:35 PM

Seattle, WA

Wiz,

You do know there's no triv hiders in either of the products you listed in your "experiment." Not really relevant to what I posted about.

I'll post some links later to my farm if it makes any difference to people. I'm not trying to tell people what to do, just sharing the information I've learned through my own study.

I think the stuff you guys should really be talking about is the work of Albrecht, Kinsey, Astera, and Solomon that relate to nutrient density and re-mineralization. The new book by Steve Solomon is excellent and I look forward to incorporating his methods into my garden this year.

4/26/2013 11:32:32 PM

Muddy Waters

Great to see photos of people outside in their patch! I will say though that the use of trichoderma in mycorrhiza should be discouraged,

Great White!!! is this Tad!

I also think Advanced Nutrients is one of the most disreputable companies in the world.

Fact?? or Gossip & hear say??

4/27/2013 7:26:30 AM

Muddy Waters

I wont attack other companys & there employes/products and personal lives.In this day & age when all lifestyles are acceptable.
So I will only say nice things about my competition.I have never bad mouthed any GPC sponsor that didn't attack me personally first.I think RTI is a fine company.I just want to try other products to see what they will do.I also want to grow this Sport & make it more competitive to gain bigger prizes for the whole world.Ok I got a kin cave II to build be back in 12 hrs.

4/27/2013 7:34:38 AM

Muddy Waters

Oh! I did use 10 lbs of Root Shield/Trichodema in 2011.I never got a kin to a weigh -off. Tad,so I did try the other way.It cost 140$ for 10 lbs.In 2012 I used 140$ of Great White instead.I had my best year ever.Not saying Root Shield doesn't work.Just saying I tried it.

That was a short 12hrs lol

4/27/2013 7:52:49 AM

Seattle, WA

According to your logic Handy, then Monsanto is perfectly acceptable as well. People need to be aware of who they're supporting with their money. If you don't believe me about advanced nutrients, look into it for yourself. Neither of the companies mentioned above were RTI, nor their products. And for the record, none of those companies are my "competition". It's your garden though, do whatever makes you happy in it. :)

4/27/2013 11:07:54 AM

Muddy Waters

This I will do Have a great summer!

4/27/2013 6:03:06 PM

Omaha, Ne.

no wonder growing results are all over the place;)

4/27/2013 6:34:07 PM

Rhode Island

tad 12---you keep reading those books.some day you may actually accomplish something in this hobby.
talks cheep it cost money to buy whisky.
my last post on the matter.
consider yourself blocked.
pap

4/28/2013 8:18:18 AM

The bottom of New Jersey

Tad - thank you for the tip on Steve Solomon's books. I will definitely be checking them out.

4/28/2013 9:31:45 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

Well here is my take on this!!To be honest i rather enjoy reading all the posts here on BP...yours included Tad!I know for a fact that my PB of 1811lbs was obtained from reading the posts and information here on this site and others.You know Pap i am not a disrespectful person and i am not trying to be disrespectful now but when you live in an area like greene RH you should have at least 2 WR under your belt as a matter of fact come on down to Cape Breton and try to grow at least 1 WR..don't hold your breath waiting:)).I just feel that growers on this site should be able to voice their concerns,opinions...share ideas,information whether good or bad depending on how you read into it and move on.If it ever comes to the point where we are afraid to speak our mind and share ideas with on this site in fear of being removed or blocked i will be growing flowers not AG's lol

4/28/2013 4:10:32 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

and what water source do you and Ron use Pap?

4/28/2013 4:44:57 PM

formerly RGG

Just as we have a right to voice our opinion, we have a right to block what we think is BS from other participants on this forum. I got tired of Amelio and so I blocked him, as did many others. No one complained about that. Pap is not blocking anyone from voicing his or her opinion. He simply is tired of reading what this person has to say. I have just as much right to write what I fee as anyone else has a right to not read what I write. It's all good. Deep breaths !! :o)

4/28/2013 6:01:09 PM

Seattle, WA

Pap,
Not sure why I seem to get under your skin. I thought you would appreciate that I always try to provide links to my assertions. How else are we supposed to learn and improve as growers, regardless of what we choose to grow, if we can't respectfully share opinions and knowledge. And yes, I do believe that books are an excellent way to learn, though certainly not the end-all of gardening wisdom.

In fact, it was Rosalind Creasy, a garden writer in San Francisco who publishes books on edible landscaping, that really inspired me to get chickens and learn how to incorporate edibles into my yard and not just my garden space.

Regardless, no hard feelings on my end. Best of luck to you this season. I will try and post a link to my garden when I'm back on the computer and not on my phone though.

Tad

PS: and pumpkinjesus, let me know what you think of the book. I've found it to be very eye opening and enlightening.

4/28/2013 6:39:33 PM

President - GPC

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/displayphoto.asp?pid=7261&gid=1

I enjoy the reads from work of Albrecht, Kinsey, Astera, and Solomon that relate to nutrient density and re-mineralization. Great reads for the organic garden which I employ in my ORGANIC GARDEN. However we are growing Competition Pumpkins where to be we kinda throw out the book. I'm not going to EAT my pumpkin so I subject it to all kindZ of torture. So since Ill be growing a Giant Pumpkin this year... I'll go with the suggestions of one of the best out there in the field. A proven winner... . Not sure why you continue to discount thoZe that do Tad, then follow with insults that I'm paid off. Is your business that bad\??
Last time it was taking a swipe at Tom P and his business. Until you DO grow a giant pumpkin.... or can start to play nice with others... My advice is to stay in the Veggie forum.

4/29/2013 1:44:11 PM

Muddy Waters

This all started from a posting about using tea!lolol!I love BP.My nephew told me theres not enough drama in the pumpkin world for a reality show!Hell we blow the doors off Storage wars!LOL!

4/29/2013 5:33:50 PM

President - GPC

It alwayZ seemZ there are thoZe who have to discount thoZe that did without ever doing it oneZ self, then diZcounting it aZ a lucky patch or some other unknown. It makeZ no diff what they did. I to happened to know that many many tests where done with colonization tests prior to "getting it done" ThiZ iz BigPumpkins.com. I also frequent the other great sites like SoilMineral.com...and the likeZ.... Do we wonder why the BIG'Z don't post anymore? So they can get told they don't know what they are talking about buy folks who have yet to grow... Who careZ about the sponsorZ... thatZ sour grapeZ....It GROW BIG or go home time!

4/29/2013 6:18:47 PM

Seattle, WA

Wiz,

I happen to think that the Wallace's are amazing growers and a tribute to the giant pumpkin community. If you go back and read my posts, you'll see that I state that right at the beginning. I am not challenging their ability or passion for growing giant pumpkins. I'm not trying to take away anything from what they've accomplished and think that they obviously must know what they're doing just to accomplish the world's only 2,000 lb pumpkin.

I just don't understand why everything I say gets challenged and discounted only because I'm not growing giant pumpkins, which I freely disclose. I do post other links and information supporting why I believe what I do, it's not like I'm spouting opinions out of thin air!

I'm not saying that Pap doesn't know what he's talking about.

I do have experience with mycorrhizal fungi and with the company Advanced Nutrients, and I do direct microscopy and run a company that manufacturers compost tea brewers so I know what I'm talking about on those subjects.

Why would re-mineralization not apply to a pumpkin patch? Wouldn't you want your plant to have all appropriate minerals available so there's no limiting growth factors? Certain minerals like Boron I believe have been shown to stunt growth/health in higher concentrations. It could be the difference between adding dolomite or ag lime or gypsum to your garden. This is a new subject that I'm getting into , but something I think MAY be applicable to your hobby. This is not something I'm an expert in, and am just sharing my OPINION, just to be clear.

4/29/2013 8:56:45 PM

Seattle, WA

I think I do play nice, and I stand behind everything I've posted to date on here. How about challenging what I post with INFORMATION, rather than making it personal or about whether or not I grow giant pumpkins? That's what I get frustrated with. You seem to attack me whenever you get the chance, without ever adding any information relating to the actual thread, and that makes me the bad guy?

I'm glad to hear you've discovered information on mineralization and incorporating it into your garden. I hope more and more people will do the same in the near future. We may not be as different as you like to think...

~Tad

PS: It is so difficult to read your posts with all those "Z's" in them. Have you ever considered just writing normally?

4/29/2013 8:56:51 PM

Central NY

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzxxx

4/30/2013 12:11:50 AM

Kentucky

Even the arguments grow big round here! Just my opinion but no wait don't have one don't want to get booted off lol uhhh I think ! Yeah lol

4/30/2013 12:19:06 AM

South Hero, VT

Amelio lives...

4/30/2013 6:59:38 AM

Omaha, Ne.

here we go again

4/30/2013 8:30:20 AM

Seattle, WA

Yet no one actually posts anything to refute what I've shared, just personal attacks and rude comments.

4/30/2013 12:11:53 PM

NE Kansas

You have yet to prove from out of your own practice what you have shared. That is why the articles in scientific magazines are peer reviewed by people with more skill then the average armchair-internet biologist.

No refutation of the other writers mentioned is needed at this time.

Ron and Pap's practices have a 'ton' of proof behind them, and have been peer reviewed and practiced by many other heavy hitters. Hard to argue with that.

4/30/2013 12:52:25 PM

Seattle, WA

I use mycorrhiza without trichoderma (actually the mykos) because of the reasons I listed above (see the articles and scientific journals I linked to). What would you like? A picture of me inoculating my veggie starts? The articles I link to are peer reviewed university studies, not sure why that doesn't qualify as "peer review" in your opinion.

So until I grow a world record pumpkin, your flawed logic claims that nothing I say has merit.

For the record, I'm not sure that Ron and Pap actually use trichoderma with their mycorrhiza. I thought they were using the Mykos with Azos, which is totally different. Go back and read Pap's post. He never commented on what I said, just that he thought I was a "blowhard."

But it's much easier to just insult me than it is to actually read a journal article or challenge conventional wisdom.

At least the insults are getting more creative. But since you asked, here's a link to our FB page

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Keep-It-Simple-Farm-and-KIS-Organics/113109832093614

and our 7 acre Farm website
http://www.kisfarm.com/

I'll be posting the conversion of my home to an edible landscape for people once I'm finished and everything is up and growing.

4/30/2013 3:24:30 PM

Muddy Waters

Why does man always feel the need to be right?I gave up arguing months ago.These are win less arguments that can't be one.Cant we all just agree to have our own opinions & leave it alone.My compost tea post, was hiJacKKEDDD!LOL

4/30/2013 3:39:18 PM

Omaha, Ne.

french model?

4/30/2013 6:27:26 PM

Omaha, Ne.

I like the Z's. Even if tad don't and bashes you for it. Your just lucky your not selling any products.

4/30/2013 8:16:39 PM

Seattle, WA

Handy,

Just realized you sell Advanced Nutrient Products. This makes so much more sense now. Did you know they've been banned from the PGTA and most hydro shops refuse to offer their products?

General Organics has a bottled nutrient line, and so does Earth Juice and Botanicare. You may want to look into those options as well.

But rest assured, I'm pretty much done with this thread and further posting of information. I've decided the negativity isn't good for anyone, and I'm not sure why I hit such a brick wall with this group. I really expected people to be more open-minded to the sharing of ideas and opinions. But I guess when products and money get involved, that can change quickly.

No hard feelings on my end though. I hope you guys have a great season. We are almost through the cold weather here in the Seattle area and I'm looking forward to getting tomatoes in the ground soon.

Cheers,
Tad

5/4/2013 2:27:51 AM

Upa Creek, Mo

Tad, I'm not saying I do or don't agree, but it's not everyone in this group. Many are open minded and like to hear different views like myself. I'm not sure why someone would refer to you as an "armchair - internet biologist" as they type from their armchair and have no idea what you do.

Keep on keepin on... Life's a garden, dig it. - Joe Dirt

5/4/2013 6:18:41 AM

Muddy Waters

most hydro shops refuse to offer their products?

Tad its comments like this that cause trouble.This is a totally untrue statement.I have not found a Hydro store that doesn't carry there product.Do you look into the lives & doings of everything you buy?
Wheres your gas money going?Have you looked into the background of that company?Is it BP LOL!

Dam duck & fish killers.

HMM! You have a lot of time on your hands.
Shop Walmart! little kids in sweat shops making all that stuff.Oh but wait those kids are thrilled to have something to eat.LOL
What the HEll dude???

5/4/2013 6:40:55 AM

Freedom Is Just Another Word For Noting Left To Lose

Did I hear banned substances? Aren't those what propelled Lance Armstrong to victory seven times? This thread has me thinking I need to get some too. That would also make Mark a pusher LOL. My plants have a monkey on their backs.

5/4/2013 6:49:18 AM

Freedom Is Just Another Word For Noting Left To Lose

Did I hear banned substances? Aren't those what propelled Lance Armstrong to victory seven times? This thread has me thinking I need to get some too. That would also make Mark a pusher LOL. My plants have a monkey on their backs.

5/4/2013 6:49:21 AM

Muddy Waters

Yes I'm the Pimp Jimbo!LOL I could dig up dirt on most any company out there.Company's are full of people,people are human.I will not lower myself to digging up dirt on any of these great companies supporting our sports.News Flash! Tad! WAllY Cleaver is dead.Long live the Beave!!LOL!

5/4/2013 7:16:17 AM

Muddy Waters

ok now Im done!Time to go find some dirt to plant those kins with.Have a great Year!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsueOnu0kY

5/4/2013 8:24:46 AM

Freedom Is Just Another Word For Noting Left To Lose

This is what I had in mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XqyGoE2Q4Y

5/4/2013 8:51:53 AM

Omaha, Ne.

5/4/2013 10:29:28 AM

Seattle, WA

In Brief:
Advanced Nutrients and the Oregon Department of Agriculture (the facts)
At present (October 2010) the ‘Oregon Department of Agriculture’ has issued Advanced Nutrients with five counts of stop sale violation, fifteen counts of selling unregistered products and eighteen counts of mislabeling. In addition, actions for sample deficiencies are in progress.
Prior to this, during the course of 2010 (Jan – Aug) Advanced Nutrients has been issued with numerous violation notices/penalties by the Oregon Department of Agriculture.
E.g. (Excerpts from FOIA material)
February 2010
[Quote]
“A recent review of advertising claims made by Advanced Nutrients in the
February 2010 issue of Rosebud: Hydroponic Growers' Lifestyle Magazine has
shown product claims that are inconsistent with the registered product label or
not compliant with Oregon Revised Statute (ORS) Chapter 633, Oregon's
fertilizer control law.
It is a violation of Oregon Revised Stature (ORS) 633.366(2)(d) to make claims in
product labeling that are inconsistent with the registered product label.”
[End Quote]

5/4/2013 4:49:39 PM

Seattle, WA

Products Listed in violation Jan – Aug 2010
Advanced Nutrients, 0-2-4 Bud Ignitor (unregistered)
Advanced Nutrients, Tarantula (unregistered)
Advanced Nutrients, Voodoo Juice (mislabeled)
Advanced Nutrients, Piranha (mislabeled)
Advanced Nutrients, 0-0-1 Tarantula (mislabeled)
5-0-1 Micro (unregistered)
Bud Factor X (mislabeled)
1-5-4 Overdrive (mislabeled)
0-2-4 Big Bud (liquid) (unregistered)
0-0-13 Rhino Skin (unregistered)
4.8-1.8-4.3 Mother Earth Super Tea Grow (unregistered)
50-1.50-2.0 Mother Earth Super Tea Bloom (unregistered)
Grandma Energy's F-1 (mislabeled)
1.5-1.5-1.5 Grandma Energy's Sensational Seaweed (unregistered)
Grandma Energy's H-2 (mislabeled)
0-0-0.5 Organic B (unregistered)
Nirvana (mislabeled)
2-1-6 Grow (unregistered)
B-52 (no grade, no guaranteed analysis) (unregistered)
3-1 -3 Organic Iguana Juice Grow (unregistered)
Dr. Hornby Voodoo Juice Microbial Rhizosphere (unregistered)
Bud Candy (unregistered)
Juicy Roots (unregistered)
0-0-13 Rhino Skin (unregistered)
2-0-0 SensiCal Mg Calcium and Magnesium Bloom (unregistered)
Sensi Grow (unregistered)
Sensi Bloom (unregistered)
Connoisseur (unregistered)
Keep in mind that at present – in addition to these violations – the ‘Oregon Department of Agriculture’ has issued Advanced Nutrients with a further five counts of stop sale violation, fifteen counts of selling unregistered products, and eighteen counts of mislabeling. Actions for sample deficiencies are also in progress.
View Stop Sale List on Oregon Site

5/4/2013 4:49:56 PM

Seattle, WA

Conclusion
What is clear is that Advanced Nutrients have no regard for consumer protection policies and regularly engage in misleading and deceptive marketing. In this case they have lowered the bar even further and utilized commercially depraved tactics in order to deceive consumers.
What is most worrying is that Advanced Nutrients have used two credible entities (PR Newswire and the Oregon Department of Agriculture) to support and amplify the deception. This form of parasitic marketing is likely to influence med growers, users and dispensaries re medical marijuana growing practices (something that Advanced Nutrients are all too aware of). One is also left wondering whether my earlier article (Hydro Hype 1) on Advanced Nutrients, their phosphorous myth, and ‘Contaminants in Cannabis’, published in Feb 2010 on www.integralhydro.com might not have inspired this latest outburst of grotesquely distorted marketing (I.e. parasitic marketing times three).
Further, as one Oregon Department of Agriculture representative put it “This claim is also particularly disturbing, as it appears to be targeted to mislead a particularly vulnerable population, medical patients who have turned to medical marijuana in hope of some relief of their symptoms.”

5/4/2013 4:50:07 PM

Seattle, WA

You should know what you're putting in your garden.

5/4/2013 4:50:22 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

think i will go soak my dirty socks in a 5 gallon bucket.Tomato plants might like it. lol

5/4/2013 5:30:55 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

Is this going to be the major battle of 2013...last years about drove me away from ever growing AG`s again

5/4/2013 6:03:03 PM

Piqua, Ohio

good thing we don't smoke our pumpkins

5/4/2013 9:44:12 PM

Muddy Waters

LOL!Donkin We will see what these products will grow.

5/4/2013 10:20:08 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

Root Juice(homemade):
1 5gall bucket
2 pair underwear(at least 3 days old)
2 pair 2 day old garden socks
soak for 3 days then she's ready
foilar feed or drench weekly!!:))

5/5/2013 8:58:56 AM

Freedom Is Just Another Word For Noting Left To Lose

Is this with or without a pinch of pubic hair?

5/5/2013 9:12:14 AM

sevierville, Tn

Could the "violations" be related to this ??

http://www.rosebudmag.com/hydroponics-industry/you-are-being-robbed-states-are-not-telling-truth

"today’s hydroponics nutrients and their labels are way more tightly regulated than vitamins and supplements ingested by humans."

"if a hydroponics nutrients manufacturer wants to put “non listed" ingredients in their products and list those substances on the labels, and tell you how those substances help your crops, they have to jump through burning hoops of fire to convince AAPFCO and state regulators to let them do it.

Furthermore a hydroponics nutrient manufacturer must spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and many years running tests on field crops for every product, then submit the evidence to AAPFCO and bureaucrats, then wait up to five years to see if the fertilizer gods have approved the beneficial substance."

5/5/2013 11:02:12 AM

formerly RGG

That is an excellent article that smoky mtn pumpkin provides a link to. It explains a lot and I suggest that everyone read it. It's another example of Big Brother getting in the way of our "free enterprise economy".

5/5/2013 11:36:33 AM

Torrance, Ca.

Great article smoky!

5/5/2013 12:25:15 PM

Muddy Waters

Very Good Chris! This is why I dont attack other companies.Things aren't always as they appear to be.So dont be fooled by Bureaucratic hog wash.The proof will be in the pumpkin come October.Yes I think Donkins BVD/sock/brew has some FunGi in it thats the same as organics!LOL Hey Josh I smoked corn silk when I was a kid.If I ever go back to smoking I may try a kin leaf.lol

5/5/2013 5:11:27 PM

South East

the artikel was written by big mike. Since he is the ceo of the company in question, he might not be complety objective,,,LOL.
We dont judge any company but we welome rules and regulations for plant nutrition. It keep the crap hopefully of the market. God knows what kinda of stuff people would try to sell just to make a dollar....

Meet Advanced Nutrients big mike btw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JJb3JiqYlY

5/5/2013 7:53:35 PM

Torrance, Ca.

That was a weird video,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



He'd make a great car salesmen:)

5/5/2013 8:07:59 PM

50 Acres

Donkin, you missed one ingredient. The toe jam, the sugar.

5/5/2013 9:00:32 PM

Seattle, WA

Written by the CEO of Advanced Nutrients, and doesn't address the mislabeling or false claims. But whatever, I'm not trying to start an argument, was just sharing my opinion and supporting reasons for why I believe what I do.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

The best argument about AN is to simply look at any of their products, find the Active Ingredients included and make note of the percentage and then check the price for that synthetic compound at web sites like Custom Hydro Nutrients (https://customhydronutrients.com/)

Here's but one example:

Bud Candy - $75.00 per gallon, MSRP

0.5% Magnesium Nitrate - that's 1/2 of 1% and not 5% just for clarification

Magnesium Nitrate is $1.00 per lb. at Custom Hydro Nutrients.

I'm sure people will argue that there's stuff in there that's not on the label and that's what justifies the exorbitant cost difference. And that's fine. Personally, I like to know what I'm putting out in my garden.

5/6/2013 1:47:46 PM

Muddy Waters

This has to be a record for compost tea post on one page.If we hit 100 I will give a free bottle of Advanced nutrients to the the 100th post.LOL!

5/6/2013 2:53:58 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Bud Candy! bwaahahaha! Oh no, they're not catering to the pot growers at all LOL. Does that appear right after the THC boosters section of the catalog?

5/6/2013 5:14:17 PM

Omaha, Ne.

Can I still use it even if I don't smoke pot?

5/6/2013 6:06:10 PM

Wi

Wow just will not let it die. You are getting close to 100 posted

5/6/2013 7:22:13 PM

Torrance, Ca.

What post is this?

5/6/2013 7:50:41 PM

Torrance, Ca.

Ok, that was 90






And this is 91 :)

5/6/2013 7:52:03 PM

Omaha, Ne.

lol

5/6/2013 8:16:28 PM

Kentucky

i

5/6/2013 8:30:29 PM

Kentucky

Am a

5/6/2013 8:30:51 PM

Kentucky

Really

5/6/2013 8:31:19 PM

Kentucky

Really

5/6/2013 8:31:45 PM

Kentucky

Really

5/6/2013 8:32:07 PM

Kentucky

Really

5/6/2013 8:32:36 PM

Kentucky

Really

5/6/2013 8:33:00 PM

Kentucky

Really

5/6/2013 8:33:20 PM

Kentucky

Big fan of

5/6/2013 8:33:56 PM

Kentucky

advanced nutrients

5/6/2013 8:35:54 PM

Kentucky

And handyhomegrown lol and could use all the help I can get :-) tad get a life and leave it alone .free got my attention mark. Keep up the good work

5/6/2013 8:40:34 PM

Glendora,N.J.

wow 100

5/6/2013 8:40:53 PM

Wi

What do we get for 102:(

5/6/2013 9:57:53 PM

Muddy Waters

LOL! Just got in from the bowling Banguet,plus I stopped at Lowes & bought some Michigan peat moss to plant the 1592 Platte 1486 Jaris a German 941 Squash tomorrow. I didnt think it would go this fast.Tell you what.Not sure who 100 is so I will give a bottle of Iguana Juice to each of you.You can pick Bloom or Grow.The last 3 posted.Thanks for the support!Send me your choice & shipping address.I will ship on Thursday morning.It's Awl GOOD!!!!!!!!!!

5/6/2013 10:49:48 PM

Torrance, Ca.

If it was Sam or I,,,,,,, cool!


If not,,,,,,,,,,, its awl gooooood!

5/6/2013 11:50:58 PM

Muddy Waters

The winners are Allen Lyvers Rick Angelino & Leines .Please send your choice of bloom or grow Iguana to Contact@worldwidegiantgrowers.Have a Great Season to Awl!!!

5/7/2013 6:56:42 AM

Muddy Waters

Conclusion
Lets Have Fun!

5/7/2013 6:57:48 AM

Omaha, Ne.

happy ending

5/7/2013 8:29:27 AM

Honesdale, Pennsylvania

anyone have Amelio's email address?

5/7/2013 9:28:41 AM

Oak Grove, Mn

I do Ned. You can email me at bnot@comcast.net and I will get you in touch with him.

5/7/2013 1:03:18 PM

Torrance, Ca.

bnot's not kidding,,,,,,,,,,, Amelio is growing this year and finally has some good genetics............


Keep us filled in on how he and his son does this year:)

5/7/2013 4:32:17 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I am sorry...It seems some people keep jabbing at someone that no longer can defend himelf. I wont reveal his work here..All I will say is that I am hoping that his son(ABC) persuades him to explore the possibilities of the twinharpwaupun seeds. Some year, the work of dad and genius son might suprise.

5/7/2013 7:32:44 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Ned, from what I have seen, it is now ... ...? The ? was from me! not Amelio!!!
Bnot, I hope for you also!!! You do seem to live in the Golden Zone!!! Peace, Wayne

1/12/2014 11:55:25 PM

Ltb

I use advaced nutrients they are the best

7/5/2014 1:45:56 AM

Australia

Compost tea is great, pumpkin best went from 300 pounds to 900 pounds, tried variety of recipes will be using it again this year, although didn't add to many supplements might try it this year though.

8/11/2014 8:57:07 AM