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Western NY

Oddly enough, there hasn’t been a remake of the 2365. Although I am not always a fan of remakes, there are usually a few growers who give it a try, and some of them are successful.

The 2387 Daletas (1885 x 1357 Wolf) is as close to a remake as you can get. I’m not sure how much planting it had, but the one I grew did well for the conditions.

The 1331 Lemire (2560 Gienger x 1357) is perhaps the next step. It was a beautiful pumpkin, and I’m sure that cross has potential. I will plant it.

Among the few seeds pollinated with the 2174 Daletas, not many of those seem to have been grown. Understandable, with all the other interesting seeds that are out there any given year.

1/11/2026 7:54:48 PM

Western NY

If there were something special about the particular 2174 plant that I used to pollinate the 2365, I would think that selfing it would have locked in some of that special sauce that made it a good pollinator. If that were the case, it would be great pollinator genetics to carry forward to cross with the 1885 line. Luckily, Steve Daletas used the 1357 as a pollinator for everything in 2024, including Parker’s (his grandkid) plant. The 1794 Wiltermood (1953 x 1375) is interesting in that the 1953 has a similar background to the 1375 - the 1953 is the exact reverse cross of the 2174 Daletas from 2020. With the cross already being pretty tightly related genetics, the 1458 Wiltermood 2025 being a selfed 1794 is the final touch in the “refinement” to the male side I was hoping for.

For this season, I see several different combinations as a potential “Improved 2365” cross project:

Female side - 1618 Bledsoe, 1269 Landis, 898 Gouin, 1669 Pollauf - all third generation 100% 1885, with the exception of the 898 which you could say is 100% 1885 at the 2.5 gen.

Male Side - 1458 Wiltermood, 473 Wolf (both 1794 Wiltermood x self)

For those who like to dabble in genetics, I think this could be a good strategy to get to that next level of seed potential if the 2365 is a good pattern to follow.

1/11/2026 7:54:57 PM

Eas Canton, Ohio

I don't see anything wrong w a remake. I was hoping someone would give that 2387 daletas some dirt. Todd Friermood remade the 1885 Werner in 2022, (1361 Friermood). I grew it to 1864 in 64 days in 2024, before she got a growth crack on the side in a weird indented growth area. I had my biggest dap 20 and 30 with it again in 2025. A bad wind storm twisted and split the vine in several spots just after the hoop came off. As that vine grew it worse. Sure woulda like to have got one of those to 100 plus days to help with proving remakes are just as good.

1/11/2026 9:50:56 PM

East Coast, USA

I might try to do a 2365 remake this year, I think I have both parents.

[Last edit: 01/12/26 11:25:30 AM]

1/12/2026 5:04:25 AM

Nova Scotia

Thanks Andy for the input and observations. Daletas has produced many exceptional proven seeds over the years. He certainly has a keen eye for it and using the 1357 Wolf as the pollinator caught my attention in 2024? Let's hope more of his seeds get tested this season.

1/12/2026 8:33:22 AM

My remake of the 1885 the first year out had it to 1964 and a looker. Adam did have one screaming to 1864 before it went down. I will say that this was only my 3rd year back when growing my remake and never had one growing this fast so I am sure I left some weight on the table as I backed off watering during prime DAP range as I was to scared. Lesson learned. The second time I grew it had another one going pretty good until stem split and was puking brown sap for like a week to week and half. Never went into the cavity and made it to the scale at only 1573. I'm sure it would have been much larger at the rate it was growing before split. Know its not the remake your looking for Andy but just throwing out an example of what a remake can do and if it was in a proven heavy hitter garden would be curious to see what it would do. If it would act like the original 1885.

1/12/2026 9:44:46 AM

Upa Creek, MO

Great post. I looked all these up to see what exactly you meant as improved. I had no idea people were sibbing and recrossing to get back to the same 1885 x 2174... very cool.

1/12/2026 7:46:47 PM

Cheshire Ma USA

I believe that there is another 1885 remake in Pa. A couple of growers got together and did it a few years back with good results last year

1/12/2026 8:22:41 PM

Western NY

Yep, a couple 1885 remakes (and a few quasi-remakes) out there that do quite well.

But honesty, I believe we have moved on from the 1885 in terms of genetic potential.

And I'm hoping we can create something that leaves the 2365 in the dust as well. That's what this is about - refining and recombining. Pattern recognition.

1/12/2026 8:57:02 PM

That State Up North

Female side try Doc Liggett for refined 1885 genetics
The secret sauce from the 2174 is what I would love to figure out

1/12/2026 10:59:17 PM

Western NY

I was really hoping someone would have selfed the 2226 Liggett last year.

Luckily, the 2194 Anderson was the reverse cross, and the 1669 Pollauf is a sibbed 2194.

1/13/2026 8:06:43 AM

There are ~25 fruits all over 2K AND the Largest and (the somewhat-forgotten word, anymore, Heaviest) one that ever cameth from the 1885.5.
It happened - The 2907 Paton. It keeps getting not mentioned in general things like 'The Biggest Pumpkin Ever' and the like. There is also at least a 247 DMG, I see, FP that is in a photo album, prolly on BP here, as well. Very interesting and WOW, whatta FP!!!
https://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=229598
My point is that ANOTHER record-breaker may lurk in one's unplanted 1885.5 seed(s) and others.
Make 2026 the year for it 4 U!
So, focusing on the 1885.5s that are yet-unplanted, and in auctions, ahem, therefore, there is still potential for over 3K from it. I'm only tossing this 'out there' because I had thought that the 723 Bobier (also, & of 1407.3 Wolf fame) had had a huge jump from its 'end of days' (the last one before the 'Big Jump' to its highest weight output) and its highest weight output, butt I guess I'd need it in a graphic chart form for observing that, like the 'Most-Watched' peaks on YouTube; Most/some of the highest-weighted fruits of all time came from very-respectable to UNbelievable weight(s) when in one particular grower's patch when IN that year that seems to be an 'all-ender', butt History may repeat itself;
Only one WEIGH to find out! Ha ha ha. Grow for it...

All the above, yet I wish you all the luck to create another 1885.5, 2365 or an even-better seed.
It will happen randomly, as well. It is in the 'TESTING' where Pumpkin Dreams come true.
eric g

[Last edit: 01/14/26 1:52:02 AM]

1/13/2026 11:22:12 PM

Sunny Okanagan

Here I think I'm so smart, and Andy Wolf (much respect for you, sir) goes and tears my dreams down, haha. I'm hoping we HAVEN'T moved on from the genetic potential of the 1885.5 I've gone to some considerable effort to hunt down progeny of the 1885.5, including the 2388.5 Liggett, 2297 Werner, and 2081 Werner. I figure I just need to get lucky once, and I can then distill those genes. Not that the 2365 isn't a powerful set of genes. But I am curious about the effects of sibbing and selfing on how heavy pumpkins go to chart.

1/17/2026 10:44:21 AM

Western NY

While the 1885 certainly is a great seed, I don't think that we are yet at a point where the collective genetic potential has plateaued. By my calculations, we have averaged about 4.5% yearly higher weights each year in the last 20 years. This holds steady for both the WR pumpkin weights as well as the average of the top 5 pumpkin weights.

In the top 5 from 2005 there were two pumpkins grown from six year old seeds. This past season there was only one from a seed that old. We are mostly avoiding older seeds now, by an average of one year younger seeds for the top 5 pumpkins. It was way, way younger for the 2024 season top 5.

Assuming a constant improvement, a decent seed from 2025 should have about a 20 pound genetic advantage over a seed form 2019. Keep in mind, that 20 pound bonus only applies in conditions to grow a 2500+ pound pumpkin. Adjust the math as needed for your particular situation.

1/18/2026 6:40:56 PM

Eugene,OR

Thanks for this discussion Andy. We need more thought provoking threads like this one.

1/18/2026 8:00:21 PM

Wisconsin

Wild no one remade the 2365.....I think I counted 9 remakes of the 2145 McMullen

1/24/2026 5:13:39 PM