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Woodward, Oklahoma

OK so what is the difference from let's say a 1572 Hoelke x 1572 Hoelke or a 1572 x self. Is their a difference where is this still the same thing?

3/17/2017 4:32:13 PM

Rapid City, SD

yes and know....the first one could have been 2 plants...female of one pollinated by the male of the other....commonly called a sibbed....or could be a selfed also.....so list the cross as 1572 x 1572 could be either...lol.......that help!!

3/17/2017 5:05:57 PM

Woodward, Oklahoma

I am wondering how it affects the genetics if it's selfed or if it's to the same pumpkin seeds different plant how's is this different or is it?

3/17/2017 5:24:53 PM

Colorado

`Every seed is different so crossing 1572#1 with 1572#2 will introduce more variables than selfing #1 or #2.If I try and make another 2009 seed by crossing a 1725 harp with a 1409 miller i'm not likely to get a seed equal to the 2009 even though the cross looks the same on paper.Theres two many variables genetically when each seed forms for equality.

3/17/2017 7:12:59 PM

Walhalla, ND.

I concur with cojoe. Even the same seeds coming from the same parent there will be differences. All the 2145.5 McMullen seeds will have there own genetic code. As you know the 2624 came from the 2145. There were many 2145s grown each with a different outcome.

3/17/2017 7:32:38 PM

Springfield, Missouri

For the simple answer we will assume the 1572 is not inbred (all loci are heterozygous).

A (1572 X Sib) will result in seeds with 25% homozygous loci and 75% heterozygous loci.

A (1572 X Self) will result in seeds with 50% homozygous loci and 50% heterozygous loci.

3/18/2017 10:20:50 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

First..cojoe, is it possible that your (or anyone's) new cross of 1725 x 1409 would be better than the original?
2nd, MO...I could prbly do hours of research...but you can probably make it simple for us...what is the difference..homozygous & heterozygous ...loci, that is? Peace, Wayne

3/19/2017 12:56:02 AM

Springfield, Missouri

A locus (plural= loci) is a position(s) on a chromosome responsible for a particular trait. Each locus can have multiple forms of a gene within a population; these forms are known as alleles. Each individual can only have two alleles per locus. If the alleles are the same, then the individual is homozygous. If an individual has two alternate forms of a gene (aka two different alleles), then it is heterozygous.

3/19/2017 10:25:58 AM

Western Massachusetts

Self pollinated pumpkins can grow just as great as introducing other pumpkins genetics into the line. However, too much self pollination (like in people) can lead to recessive traits like disease to become more prominent. Introducing other genetics usually strengthens genetic diversity.

3/19/2017 10:31:59 AM

Springfield, Missouri

If an individual shares an allele via descent with another individual they are related.

If an individual has two of the same allele via descent it is inbred (aka homozygous)

In order for my assumption to be true in my first post all 1572 seeds must be heterozygous at every loci, the parents of the 1572 must not be related, and the parents must also be heterozygous at every loci.

In other words there are four possible alleles at every loci in the 1572 seed population. (each seed can only have two of the four possible alleles)

3/19/2017 11:00:38 AM

Springfield, Missouri

If you perform a (1572 X Sib) cross, then you must have two plants/parents which are genetically unique but related. In this case you could still potentially have four alleles per locus between the two parents, but there is also the possibility the parents share one or both of their alleles at a locus. If the parents share one or both alleles at a locus, then there is a chance for offspring to be homozygous.

If you perform a (1572 X Self) cross, then you only have two alleles at each locus (A and a for example). Aa X Aa = 25% AA, 50% Aa, 25% aa. AA and aa are homozygous, Aa is heterozygous. So 50% are homozygous and 50% are heterozygous.

3/19/2017 11:01:25 AM

Colorado

yes wayne it could be better than the 2009.The point is that it will be different because of the likely difference in the starting parents.however it does seem that some parents mix better than others so it may make a better cross than some other cross with equally big parent seeds.proven crosses are a good way to go cause many great crosses on paper just don't pan out. Theres a lot of unknowns in pumpkin genetics and I'm not paying 2.5 million to map out their genetic code:)

3/19/2017 2:47:14 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

C'mon cojoe...help us out a little here & spend that 2.5Mill !!! LOL Just glad to here that my one lil ole 800 McMullen still has a chance? Peace, Wayne

3/20/2017 12:35:17 AM

Colorado

wayne,that 800 McMullen seed is definitely worth a shot.It put 207.5 lbs on my personal best last year.I'm growing another one and a 2145 -that should tell you how I feel about its potential

3/20/2017 1:07:21 PM

Emmetsburg, Iowa

Cojoe, how much did your 800 mcmullen weigh?

3/20/2017 5:23:03 PM

Willamette Valley, Oregon

I second MOPumpkins and cojoe.

One thing to note: when we say "inbred" in this context that is not necessarily a bad thing. Individuals that are homozygous/inbred for beneficial traits would be excellent parents in the next generation. And homozygous for recessive fatal or detrimental traits would allow us to identify individuals with those genes and remove them from the breeding population.

3/20/2017 7:35:13 PM

Woodward, Oklahoma

Thanks guy!

3/20/2017 10:21:58 PM

Colorado

800mc grew my 1685.5#

3/21/2017 11:35:06 AM