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bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

It has started. So far at last count California, New York, Illinois, Connecticut, and Pennsylvania? have shut down most businesses. 70 million Americans are not getting a paycheck now. I believe each of these states have a Democrat governor.

What do you think, is the saving of a few hundred thousand (majority elderly) lives worth the economic burden of the masses. I have read that 80% of the country lives paycheck to paycheck.

I understand being concerned about health...but does taking away employment make the situation worse?

3/20/2020 7:28:18 PM

Jimbo01 (Team Bubba)

DeWitt Michigan

What is the price of a human life regardless of age?

3/20/2020 7:33:28 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

all lives are priceless jimbo, we know that....I expect you to lose your house to save a 90 year old, that is barely hanging on already. Or an 80 year old..that is capable of self isolating, they dont care the jobs just disappeared..they don't work anyway.

3/20/2020 7:48:27 PM

Porkchop(team sLamMer)

Central NY

10-20 thousand?...meh....let er rip....what’s 1.4 percent of 25 million though ?....that’s just California....yikes.... I agree with the president… We can make the money back ,we can’t bring the people back.

3/20/2020 8:13:21 PM

Jimbo01 (Team Bubba)

DeWitt Michigan

Don't fret Bnot. Those of us that ARE ESSENTIAL will parish due to providing services to you during this global pandemic making sure you still had many convivences like refuge pick up, electric and water, gas, deliveries, medical and so on. Look at the big picture without snuffing my grandparents.

3/20/2020 8:15:21 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

I just was divorced...I gave up nearly all of my assets of marriage to get my current house and custody of my daughter. 2 months of unemployment...i lose everything. I would rather face the risk of infection, than losing everything that I do not have time to recover from. I am high risk...57 years old, smoker, heart attack 6 year ago. By my calculations, i have about 6 percent chance of dying from the virus. That is better odds than losing everything...because the governement tells me I can't go to work.

3/20/2020 8:31:06 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

Sorry Jimbo, I want to keep a home for my 15 year old daughter. She is more important to me than your grandparents, that you could isolate.

3/20/2020 8:46:39 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

Further, what is the exit strategy for this massive shutdown. Is it going to eliminate the coronavirus? I think not. So massive shutdown...then eventually they have to decide that people should be allowed back to work...not all will go back to work because many businesses will have permanetly closed. So, what happens...it starts to grow again...do they shut down again...how many times will it shut down in the next year or better until there is a vaccine. All these shutdowns...unemployment at 70%....the great depression might be considered a boom time

3/20/2020 8:52:39 PM

spudder

From what I can gather the exit strategy will be when the new cases are back down to pretty well nothing. And all this is designed to do is to load level so as not to overburden the systems. I think the world will be lucky to have everything back to somewhere close to normal will be Oct. - Dec. Maybe sooner if a second wave can be avoided. Giving money for stock buybacks and/or bonuses is not the answer. Cutting dividends temporarily to pay employees may tick the greedy off but would help in the long run.

In my opinion the ones who want to give quick and extended unemployment are much closer to what is needed than just forking over a payment to everybody. There are ways the banks can help such as adding your mortgage payments on to the other end. There are solutions and if the greedy do not want to willingly do it, time for decisive government action.

3/20/2020 9:44:51 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

spudder, from what I have looked at as the various mortgage companies that are saying could delay payments for 3 months to be added on at the end of the term. All are saying that interest will accumulate during that time. If someone took out a mortgage in the past year...an extra 3 months of interest will take out the one year of payments that they have made. Their balance will be more than the original. So three months of deferal will be an extra year of payments. Some of the mortgage companies are saying..that when this virus episode is over that they want a lump sum payment for the lost monthly payments. How is someone to come up with 3 months of mortgage payments, when they haven been working for 3 months. Unemployment in the us....it is about 50% of regular salary. Debt load is limited at about 43% of income. To cover debt, unemployment leaves about 7% to cover other expenses such as food and utilities. Median family income in the usa is 63179. If you take 7% of that...it leaves $368 per month for food and utiltilies...that is not going to be enough. How many families are just starting out with the high debt load. Save the grandparents...destroy the young.

3/20/2020 10:16:51 PM

Smallmouth (Team Ozark)

Missouri

I’m with Jimbo on this, how do you put an economical value on any demographic? It’s lifeboat ethics, and we aren’t destroying the young by looking out for our old... the people that raised us. I’m also a Republican with 3 kids under 8 so not sure what politics has to do with this.

3/20/2020 10:32:37 PM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

Can you refinance and make the most of the situation? Inslee here was on the radio basically had a plan that gets the best of both worlds. It was that the young and low risk people should continue to work and high risk people should be allowed to isolate via a $ocial cushion. They should not have to risk exposure. I like the plan. Because I would like to work. I feel like despite a few health issues that I am strong enough that I wont need to be in an ICU. Inslee is top notch. Some politicians are worth their weight. You can bum a room at my house... My state might not implode.

3/20/2020 10:44:22 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

My workplace only has 10 employees, within the federal guideline for maximum group. We have about 6000 sq ft to work in. Plenty of space for separation. Of the 10, 5 are ok with mandatory work stoppage..the other 5 it causes severe financial strain. If you can afford a 2 month work stoppage it is a no brainer. If you can't...it is more stressful than the effects of the virus.

smallmouth...there has to be a line where you say...your life and finances are not worth the sacrifice. Would you give up everything you have to save the life of someone that you do not know? Everyone has different financial cushions. Would you give up everything?

3/20/2020 10:50:44 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

G kins..yes, the young and low risk people should continue to work..unfortunately..with the state mandates....that is not possible..they are shutting down business. That is my beef...those that want to work, are not able to.

3/20/2020 10:52:35 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Who says we will have that many dead? China (if we can believe them) claims no new cases in 2 days. But Italy seems to be in a much worse situation. Is it because China has lots of younger people and Italy has lots of older people?

I am not so worried about the cost. We are already so far in debt it will take decades or longer to pay it off. And with better trade deals, our economy should recover fast. We have learned the danger of depending on foreign sources for the necessities of life, as those sources can also provide us with plagues. And beside that, I will turn 66 next week and have some minor health issues that put me in a high risk category. And my wife is younger but has a little serious health issues. So I don't want anyone telling us that we are not worth protecting.

3/20/2020 11:32:01 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

My biggest fear is that this might be a trial run for an overthrow of our republic. Just look how some governors are trying take dictatorial control over their states. And one political party seems intent on disarming us. A lot of people were trying to buy their first gun in California, but with things shut down for who knows how long and a 10 wait period, they are defenseless. And their jails are releasing lots of jail inmates early. I have seen reports that the NICS system is overloaded and people all over the country can't buy guns until the background checks are completed.

I am glad that our governor has extended expiring handgun purchase and carry permits that are expiring. And with the permit, we don't have to worry about NICS because that has already been done. And we only have 45 cases so far from over 800 tested, and only a couple have been hospitalized.

We have to be careful with new viruses. But we also have to be on guard for a potential fake virus that can be used to steal our liberty. Maybe the question should be, How much freedom are we willing to surrender, and how many are willing to die to keep it? I wonder how many who died 75 years ago to save our freedom would want to see us surrender it now?

3/20/2020 11:32:15 PM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

If this thing needs a level 4 lab to contain it... then despite your wife's best intentions if she has to work around it she may catch it. Or maybe its the biggest April fools joke ever. It is kinda hard to mentally process... We did earthquake and fire drills when I was a kid... never did a pandemic drill.

3/21/2020 12:40:06 AM

Grower216

Where the PUMPKINS grow/My backyard

It was not foreign substances that caused the epidemic, it was unsafe travel, to unsafe countries. I think that from this, we will learn to treat symptoms of any sickness before it will spread. I hope that we will also learn to got o the healthcare officials when we are sick. If we had, we would have known to quarantine long before it got this bad. That would have been someone who got off a plane from China, and they would have noticed that they did not feel good, and instead of assuming it was just a cold or flu, they would ask the doctors what they had. This would allow the travelers to know when to quarantine, and this would have stopped the spread. This should not have been that hard to do, because people knew that it got bad in China, long before it got here, and if people were thinking, they would have known the symptoms, and self quarentined. I just hope this gets better soon, and we learn from our mistakes.

3/21/2020 7:46:42 AM

spudder

If the stats that are coming out now are an indication, people have better stop believing that it is an old persons' disease. Some very sick young people are taking to social media with trying to get young people to understand just how sick you can get. The death rate goes up as you get older but a huge percentage of the dead in Italy had 3 or more pre-existing conditions. But if things get out of control who knows how the percentages will change if there are way more people than respirators. This virus is not a conspiracy theory, it is real. Governments and people fail to learn from history. Governments failed to do what was demanded from China, failed to act on what was recommended from the Ebola outbreak. Lastly in time of crises people have to get rid of their sense of self entitlement.

3/21/2020 8:11:19 AM

Frank and Tina

South East

Chin up Bnot and keep the faith. Hopefully the government will provide some relief and hopefully banks and other lenders will understand that its business as usual and that payments might have to wait until people are back to work.

Every day that passes we are a day closer to regular life coming back.

3/21/2020 9:08:51 AM

Frank and Tina

South East

*not business as usual

3/21/2020 9:11:36 AM

Porkchop(team sLamMer)

Central NY

franks right...Check your local .gov sites....help will be available...need to just stay at home and away from others if possible ...the nyc mayor said if living in ny, (city) , assume you have the virus...we’re gonna fly by Italy’s numbers if we don’t stop the spreading...too many people die of other stuff in this country to handle it....prolly gonna fly by those numbers anyway but, I’m gonna do my part....for all of you....#wuhanflu #chinesevirus #GeneraLtaoSicken

3/21/2020 9:33:36 AM

Smallmouth (Team Ozark)

Missouri

Great way to look at it Frank

3/21/2020 12:09:36 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

1 new case reported in Iowa yesterday. 1 new case today. The one today had known she had been exposed and was isolating herself. Total of 46 cases statewide, only 2 or 3 hospitalized. No deaths. 95% of tests have been negative. 22 of the cases are in one county, where 13 brought it back from Nile River cruise in Egypt. But the radio station that organized that cruise is advertising that they are setting up another one for next March. Insanity. But overall, Iowa is not is an emergency situation yet, and it seems to be slowing down.

3/21/2020 1:18:16 PM

DKrus

Cheshire Ma USA

If everyone is out of work the bank won't have anyone to sell the house to anyway, keep your chin up and when this all settles down you and the bank will come to terms. Keep being a good dad and everything will fall in place.

3/21/2020 2:49:16 PM

Suburban Gardener

Western Washington

Washington State is getting hit hard by Corona Virus cases. Some businesses are laying people off while others can't hire people fast enough to keep up tons of new demand. Here in Washington, if someone wants to work, there are plenty of openings now. Some places will even hire you on the spot.

Also, Washington State offers unemployment benefits to those that need to isolate themselves to avoid the Corona Virus, or are sick with it now. Yes, it's less than their full paycheck. People should have some form of financial cushion in case an emergency comes up, or at least credit cards. Not that I'm pro-debt, but for an emergency situation only.

Many people here are making a real effort to support local businesses, and more businesses are adapting by getting creative with how they deliver their goods and services, such as offering curbside pickup, touch-free food delivery services, mailing their products to the customers, etc. Some businesses need to change and adapt to the new reality if they want to stay in business.

Take care, bnot! You seem really stressed out over there. Things will work out in the end. Sell some some stuff on eBay or something if you need some cash. Keep calm and carry on. Give Jenny a call, lol!

3/21/2020 3:17:17 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

I spoke too soon. Iowa now has 68 total cases. 1049 have tested negative, meaning 6% of the tests are positive. so around 2/1000 of 1% of the state is known to have the Wuhan plague. It is in 16 of our 99 counties. An unprecedented number for a statewide health emergency.

3/21/2020 5:15:13 PM

Porkchop(team sLamMer)

Central NY

Italy had 17 cases a month ago

3/21/2020 5:35:42 PM

big moon

Bethlehem CT

In New York state it doubled overnight.

3/21/2020 5:47:17 PM

big moon

Bethlehem CT

I hope that does't happen again today.

3/21/2020 5:49:19 PM

PumpkinBrat

Paradise Mountain, New York

https://www.uticaod.com/news/20200321/coronavirus-disaster-declared-in-new-york

3/21/2020 5:57:02 PM

Frank and Tina

South East

What might be ahead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J60fQr0GWo

3/21/2020 6:00:52 PM

PumpkinBrat

Paradise Mountain, New York

Just watched Governor Cuomo live about NY. There saying now it will takes months to get a hold of this virus. Talking August.A lot depends on the public staying home. NYC is the 10th largest city in the world. As the Governor says, people need to realize this is very serious, Plus the ones who have been tested with the virus are at the age of 18 to 43. 54%.

3/21/2020 6:02:06 PM

Smallmouth (Team Ozark)

Missouri

Here’s an up to date dash board by world, country and all states. My favorite link to monitor for up to the hour status.

https://ncov2019.live/data

3/21/2020 7:02:19 PM

DKrus

Cheshire Ma USA

NY doubled overnight because they did 10,000 tests in one day, 32,000 total tests done there since it started, unfornunatly it is going to go up as more testing is done.

3/21/2020 8:05:34 PM

LIpumpkin

Long Island,New York

I cant believe what I read on these boards these days. Pap says he never met a pumpkin grower he didn't like....well apparently he hasnt met them all and certainly no longer reads BP posts....Bnot- with what you said up top and if your in your 50's have had a heart attack and still smoke your too stupid to get a ventilator.Give it to Grandma.

3/21/2020 8:30:28 PM

spudder

Asking people in hard hit areas not to get tested to save equipment for absolute necessity. We may never get accurate count.This is all on top of regular flu season.
Also there seems to be a trend that males are more prone than females and in Italy one stat said 99% of deaths had at least one pre-existing condition.

3/21/2020 8:43:52 PM

spudder

Seeing what some areas are going through, I am glad our chief medical officer has advised pre-emptive moves that to date has kept us low.
"knock on wood"

3/21/2020 8:49:33 PM

Smallmouth (Team Ozark)

Missouri

I read somewhere Italy has the oldest population in Europe, so if true, maybe that had something to do with it. I worked on a Navy base in Naples, Italy years ago and will say Italians are much more “in your face” and don’t really have the same personal space bubbles we do here in North America.

3/21/2020 10:43:17 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

I was reading today, shutdowns could last from 10-12 weeks. $1200 won't make it for 3 months. A proposal I like, give the workers their full salary during that time. If they could do that, the financial stress of many would disappear.

3/22/2020 12:35:49 PM

spudder

I think there are some on each side that realize that is much better than giving corporate handouts. Corporations will benefit from you paying bills and buying products. This
well entrenched mentality of give the big guy the money for bonuses and dividends has to go. Some politicians learned just what the morality of the corporations is from the last bailout.
I do not care what country a person is in, the average joe has to start getting a bigger slice of the pie. I hope when this is over there will be a much needed push back against the trickle down mentality that is clearly a failure. There definitely needs to be a social backup fund that can not be raided except for total shutdowns like this. Not for when some corporation is out of business but a dire situation .

3/22/2020 1:13:22 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Fuhrer Kim Reynolds just ordered all hair salons, etc closed. Jacob and I beat that by one day as we got haircuts just yesterday. Iowa has now recorded 90 positive tests out of a total of 1305. Some have already recovered. It is in 24 of our 99 counties. She closed the schools and churches, but now wants them to open up daycare. Makes sense to send kids home from school to avoid a disease and then bring them right back in.

To top it off, it is snowing now. Snowed yesterday, too.

3/22/2020 5:18:07 PM

spudder

I hope that the bill Schumer and Dems held out for helps ease the pressure on those of you who need it. Up to 4 months of full pay would be a big stress reliever for people.

This thing could go on for a while and longer if restrictions are eased before it is defeated.

3/24/2020 2:40:37 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

I hope so too spudder. It would cost the treasury much, but people would still be able to make their payments.The economy would be right back to where it was after the threat is over.

As it is, I probably would not collect. My company today started to make parts for another company that has contracted to build automated machines to produce face masks. They sent an email stating that due to the nature of the product, our business is now considered essential.

American industry has the ability to fill this void in medical supplies quickly. Businesses know how to interconnect. It just takes a purchase order to get the ball rolling.

3/24/2020 4:28:15 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

Ok, tell me who is essential. One company, we will call it B in the chain, contracts with a huge company "A" (i dont know what connection A has) to build automated machines to produce face masks. Price is not an issue, speed is. Company B contracts with my company...to make parts to make the machine. My company needs steel to make this parts, fortunately minnesota is not shut down, steel delivery is still possible...Is the steel company (level C) now essential. And what about the steel manufacturers (D).They are still in business in Pennsylvania, but some of their suppliers of needed products(E) are shutdown. Back to my company, we rushed as many parts as we could today. What I made today was sent by courier (C) to the plater (C). They are going to plate overnight..and have the parts at company (B) in the morning.

People would be relieved to know that their are enough medical supplies, (ventilators, face masks etc to get thru is). Shutting down business does not get them faster.

3/24/2020 5:30:58 PM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

Thats the American way. Not sitting back and collecting a check. Chinese work their asses off. Get to work bnot. This is what proud to be an American is all about!!!

3/24/2020 6:41:21 PM

spudder

In my neck of the woods, grocery, pharma, hardware/building supply, restaurants banks take out only, trucking but not gyms, clothing stores hobby stores, bingos, race track, casino. I do not think real estate agents are having any luck.
Sure is a tough call but you have to make those essential supplies but you do not need to be making $200 sweaters or make up etc.

3/24/2020 6:59:00 PM

Suburban Gardener

Western Washington

Bob, I knew things would work out for you! Take care over there!

3/24/2020 9:55:54 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

My county has decided that I don't need to take my garbage to the landfill transfer station. I guess they think it is better for public health to let it pile up or burn it. Maybe they think that backing my truck up to the garbage pile in the big building and tossing my garbage on the pile will expose me to more germs than it does when we are not under a plague alert. Or maybe it is the guy at the scale who sits behind the small sliding window who is at risk.

But our governor has decided to loosen alcohol restrictions, and let stores and breweries make home deliveries. I guess she thinks that if you stay drunk, the smell of garbage won't bother you.

3/24/2020 10:52:34 PM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

Its shocking but some people would rather die than run out of alcohol. There is a lot to be frustrated about. Based on the news I see it appears thats the media has a 'get drunk and blame Trump' attitude. Alcohol is an important part of that plan!

3/24/2020 11:31:26 PM

Garden Rebel (Team Rebel Rousers)

Lebanon, Oregon

So far here in Oregon, Semiconductor companies like Intel are still open. With the agreement that we maintain strict measure inside the factories. They are clean rooms anyway. Most non essential office workers are home doing work from there. The factories, including equipment maintenance what I do, are still cranking out memory chips for all your electronic devices.

3/25/2020 12:07:28 AM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

I understand the semiconductor companies being open. Nearly everything in todays world relies on them. Healthcare, communication, transportation, energy...about every facet of our lives.

The garbage closing I do not understand. Can you imagine what NYC would be like with no garbage removal?

After the bars were closed here...the panic runs were at the liquor stores. One website I looked at had the statistic at about 1 in 8 americans have some level of alcoholism (alcohol use disorder). Keeping the stores open might be better than forcing sobriety on a large section of unemployed people.

3/25/2020 6:22:26 AM

26 West

Swamp Hoggers Paradise

Beer stores,liquor stores, pot stores essential services here. I guess they provide a lot of tax revenues.

3/25/2020 8:04:28 AM

spudder

Beer and MJ shut here.

Heard rumors of the Nellie J Banks being put back into service.

3/25/2020 9:14:14 AM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

Minnesota joined the other states today with the "Stay at Home" order. With the current relief plan put out by the senate, some people who are laid off because of Coronavirus, might have more income during the shutdown, than they had while working. I won't complain, when this is all over...the economy is going to be rocking.

For me, I qualify under the critical manufacturing exemption. Yesterday was face mask machine parts, today was ventilator prototype parts. If FDA approves, we could push out alot very quickly. I am happy to being still able to go work...and even better, my work might make a difference.

3/25/2020 7:01:03 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Iowa's governor has decided shelter in place is not need. The hospitals do not want shelter in place. They fear starting a panic, more people putting demands on the health system, depleting supplies that may be needed. So far only 145 total diagnosed cases statewide, only about 1/4 of the counties have a case. One fatality, someone age 61 to 80. BY Feb 14, 22 had died in Iowa from flu this season. I ma sure there have been more in the 40 days between then and now. So flu is many. many more times deadly than covid, at least in Iowa.

3/25/2020 8:02:19 PM

LJ

South Dakota

What a difference 5 days make in a persons outlook on life. Glad things are working out Bob. Keep on growing!

3/26/2020 1:01:39 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

update in minnesota. The stay at home order goes into place tomorrow. How much is shutting down, not very much. Other than retail stores, nearly all other businesses will remain open. Minnesota has so much involvement with agriculture,medical equipment, industrial supplies etc that most businesses have some connection. From the state government office...they are estimating that 78% are in the critical essential category either direct or as a supplier. This latest order will only affect about 6%, the previous were already shutdown.

3/26/2020 4:25:12 PM

Porkchop(team sLamMer)

Central NY

The city will be a disaster zone in a few weeks....ny could use some prayers.....and I ate all our food already....3 weeks worth.....#damptobaccoleaves

3/26/2020 5:53:10 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

Sorry, Porkchop

I messed up a roller today to make cans for a food manufacturer. I am sure you can survive another day. Maybe tomorrow, i will get it right.

3/26/2020 6:42:16 PM

Porkchop(team sLamMer)

Central NY

<---sneezes on bob

3/26/2020 6:52:30 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

I feel sick already, I better quarantine for the next 2 weeks. Should I go to work...virus can survive on metal for 17 days...can it transfer metal to metal?

I guess porkchop needs to lose a bit of weight anyway.

Last count, we are up to 346 positive cases. 134 no longer needing to be isolated. That leaves 212 active cases. Population of 4 million...still pretty low risk.

These numbers have to be considered with the fact that Minnesota is really testing at a low rate. Official estimates range from 10x to 100x.

Whatever it is, even though minnesota is under "Stay at Home" orders...from the texts i have exchanged today...I do not think we are shutting down.

3/26/2020 8:08:45 PM

Porkchop(team sLamMer)

Central NY

Hopefully you won’t have to shut down bob...if your rural enough you shouldn’t have to after this quarantine period...they have huge temporary morgues set up all over the city..nobody seems worried about that making people panic...numbers will climb fast now...9lb gain this week...almost as much as our tomato

3/26/2020 8:39:17 PM

spudder

Smallmouth put this link up in case anybody is interested. Funny that your state has over 50% of the recovered in the USA and only a small percentage of diagnosed. This is killing at a higher rate than flu world wide.

https://ncov2019.live/data

3/26/2020 8:52:10 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

I have looked at those statistics also spudder. I think there are more recovered cases in the US than what is listed. I think to get moved to the recovered column you need to get a second test. With testing being limited, using a test kit on someone that appears healthy is a waste when there are others that are obviously sick yet to be tested.

Porkchop, i certainly don't expect the rate of infection here to be the same as NYC. We are much more spread out. 8 million people in 302 sq miles NYC vs 4 million people in 87,000 sq miles Minnesota

3/27/2020 6:56:09 AM

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