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Subject:  gun rights discussion again

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G. Kins

Southwest WA

Since it was overtaking a previous post.
I presume that guns are here to stay... If the left wants to save lives they will ban hand guns. If they want to enforce some future tyrannical agenda they will want to get rid of long range armor piercing weapons. We'll know what their agenda is by which weapons they want to ban. I dont have any fears about the future. I dont think anyone else should either. I love my local law enforcenent because they are not tyrants. I want them to be safe.

12/11/2019 2:53:33 AM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

Hand guns kill the most people and are useless in a real fight against tyranny?
So ban 'em.

12/11/2019 3:04:26 AM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Why don't you just ban the whole bill of rights while you are at it? Want to see a gun ban in action>? Go to Mexico. The criminals have guns, the people don't. Cops are afraid of the cartels. Our government gave guns to the cartels. They turned Mexico into what our president calls a $h*thole.

Tyranny isn't just big government. It can be organized crime or even just loosely organized gangs of thugs.

Imagine you are 65 years old, one titanium knee and one worn out knee. Torn-up shoulders, Bone spurs in your neck pressing on your spinal cord. Add in asthma. You can't run away and you can't fight. If the criminals know everyone is disarmed, you are in big trouble. But if you have a pistol in your pocket, the odds are evened out.

If you don't want to carry a gun the criminals won't know that. But they will know that some people do have guns and maybe they won't take the chance that their next victim is armed.

Ask the woman who is being harassed by an abusive stalker. A protective order is just a piece of paper and cops won't be there around the clock. A gun in the pocket, purse, waistband or night stand will at least give her a fighting chance.

Some handguns, like the 5.7 mm and the lowly .22 magnum can penetrate soft body armor. Any bullet to the face can stop a tyrannical government's armed thug. Handguns are not useless.

12/11/2019 6:42:17 AM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Your cops might be OK now. But what happens if the government turns on us. Who will the cops support? Threaten them with the loss of job, money, insurance retirement, ability to provide for their families. What will they do then?

What about the cops when Bloomberg the gun banner was mayor of New York? Stop and frisk. Target minorities. He was a big city tyrant. His police obeyed him, became tyrants too. Now he wants to be president and disarm the whole nation. What kind of national tyrant would he be? Do you really trust him? Ask some of the people in Virginia where his any town group is targeting gun control. If he has his way, if 2 or more people try to protest for gun rights while carrying a gun, they would be charged with a felony under his proposal. And if they had gotten ant gun training, their trainer and the owner of the gun range where they trained would also be charged with the same felony. That is just how close we are to a communist dictatorship.

Bloomberg showed us just how he would trample individual rights. What about the other democrats who want to disarm us? Are they as dangerous as Bloomberg? Do you want to give them that kind of power and then wait to find out?

12/11/2019 6:59:12 AM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Don't get me wrong. I know a lot of cops. The ones I know are really good people. One was a coworker at NRCS. One is mayor of Anamosa, and I chaperoned his kid and others on a church youth trip. A couple are farmers I worked with. One is my wife's cousin. Several others were members the Izaak Walton League I belonged to. One is a giant pumpkin grower and weigh-off organizer. One brother in law was an MP in the military and another worked for the FBI. All great small town people.

But there are some rotten ones too. One big city cop terrorized my daughter. Followed her of town at night, accused her of stealing her car. Didn't matter that he watched her leave the hospital in her uniform, get into an 8 year old Ford parked between doctor's BMW and Lexus. Her car had hospital parking sticker, her hospital Id matched her drivers license, insurance card, car registration. He said people were stealing cars, cuffed her, put her in the back of his car. kept her there for a while and then let her go without even an apology. Targeted her because she was a young woman and he had power over her.

I also know a woman who had her drink spiked with a mix of drugs at a party. Lucky that friends took her to a hospital before she was raped. Doc told her that she was lucky to be a larger person; the drugs could have killed a smaller woman. The cops wouldn't investigate; she survived so it wasn't worth their time. Because she was female, she deserved to pay the hospital bill but didn't deserve justice.

Not all cops are worthy of your trust. And if they are being threatened by corrupt government, what would they do?

12/11/2019 7:23:54 AM

Spudley (Scott)

Alaska

Wow! That was a rant. I can't understand for the life of me why some people on here would even live in the United States of America. According to them it sucks it's a s*** hole corrupt deep state. Our government is a tyrannical government wow! That's not the America I live in and love.

12/11/2019 1:45:46 PM

Spudley (Scott)

Alaska

And furthermore I think some on here are resting on a knife's edge. God only knows what's going to tip them one way or another. Going out with a blaze of glory or respecting and believing in the institutions of Old Glory.

12/11/2019 2:35:28 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Yeah, I was on a rant. Somethings bug me. Like the time the drinks blasted my house with a shotgun in the middle of the night. Sheriff did his job, caught them, filed felony charges. It was the worthless republican county attorney who reduced it to misdemeanor disorderly conduct. Those idiots can still possess guns. So when the politicians want to disarm me after they proved they won't enforce laws to protect me, it rubs me the wrong way.

I never said the whole government is tyrannical. Heck I worked for the government for 30 years and would have stayed another 3 to 6 years if my knee hadn't worn out. I may have singled out Bloomberg, a couple of Cedar Rapids cops, and now a retired, county attorney. That is far from what you accuse me of doing. But then I guess you learned the "personal attacks when you cant refute an argument" tactic from another frequent flier on this message board. Or is that just a liberal directive.

12/11/2019 4:24:46 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

I hear that knife's edge can be bad for some people. In the winter when days get short, some people get Seasonal Affective Disorder, or SAD. The reduced sunlight causes real problems for them. I had one coworker who kept a special lamp at her desk in the winter, and she said it really helped her. I hear it can be worse in places like Northern Canada and Alaska. I'm glad I never had to deal with that.

This time of year, when there isn't any gardening to do, I have to have something to amuse me. Annoying the liberals and watching them lose their minds and marbles can be great fun. Thanks for the chuckle Spuds. Those were some great jabs. Frank taught you well. Maybe I should take it easy on you lefties as a Christmas present. Give you time to pick up those marbles. What do you think?

12/11/2019 4:37:26 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

I have to agree with one thing you said, Spudley. I can't understand how those liberals can stand to live in the good old USA. You know the ones I am talking about. The ones who promised to move to Canada if Trump was elected. The ones who took to the streets screaming and crying after the elections. The ones who vowed rebellion and impeachment before inauguration day. The ones who invented Russian Collusion. The ones who support good old Quid Pro Joe. Bernie Sanders who is flooding Iowa with commercials calling Trump the most corrupt president in history. Robin Hood Pocahontas flooding us with commercials saying how corrupt the government is. Billionaire Steyer calling Trump a fraud, failure and criminal. Don't forget Schiff and Nadler. And Nancy Pelosi who is praying for the president while trying to overthrow him. They look like they are planning on going out in flames of glory in the name of protecting the nation from a President they despise.

Yeah, that is not the America I live in and love. Where we have a President who puts America first. Who respects the whole Bill of Rights, including the 2nd Amendment. Who is so loved by people that he can't find a venue big enough for campaign rallies that can hold all of his followers.

Yeah, I really worry about those who are setting themselves for a huge letdown when their coup fails.

Does that make me a Christmas Grinch? Am I annoying liberals again? Oh well, you made it too easy. I just couldn't resist.

12/12/2019 11:25:14 AM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

I never thought I'd be pushed to the fringe of society as a straight white male and father. But my role in society is almost zero. Rural white America is getting destroyed. Poverty, drugs, suicide. A man jumped off our highest bridge here a couple weeks ago. Hand guns are meant to kill and will heal nothing. We need some major healing out here, and frankly I think liberals see handguns as a great way to depopulate this country via urban violence and rural suicide. The day the left really cares, then we'll know it, the life expectancy of the poor will go up, rather than down. We've gutted the past values that made America great.

Not sure what you mean Spudley by Old Glory.

Most of us are in the bottom 99%? And until that changes, nothing will change.

I think this partisan stuff is like a sharp knife. Good observation.

12/12/2019 4:41:16 PM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

I was excluded from my own sons 2nd birthday recently by my ex because her social justice warrior friend had no one else to pick on. I am getting bullied in real life because brainless and insecure people eat this hatred mongering up. Being stupid and primed to be extremist applies to both sides, right and left. I think both sides are exploiting insecure people rather than doing anything good.

12/12/2019 7:07:12 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Rural America in Iowa is NOT getting destroyed. Our unemployment rate is lowest in the country, and the country as a whole has historically low unemployment. Farm prices are down, but Trump's assistance program is helping. And farm problems aren't just the fault of the trade war. World wide weather and crop yields are a big problem. Yields will likely be down here due to the wet season, which will help prop up prices. The low gas prices hurts corn prices, since a lot of corn goes to biofuel. Low grain price means cheap feed for pork and beef farmers. And the disease that is ravaging China's pork production is boosting prices. So it is not nearly as bad as the Trump hating media is making it out to be. I don't see life expectancy going down. My father made it to 89 and my mother is going strong at 90. A local nursing home has 4 people celebrating Christmas at 100 and one more who is 101.

My handguns are not for killing people. My .22 is for target shooting, hunting and dispatching nuisance critters. My 9mm is for personal and family protection. One of our biggest hazards is critters: sick raccoons, dogs that get dumped, farm critters that get loose (one was a bear) and the occasional mountain lion. Criminals can be a problem too. I can't use the gun unless there is a threat of death or severe injury. And the goal is NOT to kill. If the sight of the gun scares them off. If I have to shoot, I have to stop once the threat is ended. I avoid dangerous situations, but if necessary I want to be able to protect myself and my family. There is nothing partisan about that at all. Self defense is a basic human right guaranteed by the 2nd and 9th amendments.

12/12/2019 7:08:06 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Fear is a big propaganda too. In the gun issue we are discussing here, it is the favored tool of the left. They like to scare people over the "assault weapons". Yes they are used by a lot of mass shooters, but they account for a very small fraction of deaths by gun. And they are the best selling guns on the market. Not reall that much to be scared over. and a citizen with an AR-15 stopped the Texas church shooting. They make a very good home defense gun as well as a great hunting and sporting rifle.

The left likes to portray gun owners as being scared. Say they have guns so they don't feel insecure. Not true. Do you have smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, first aid kits, seat belts in your car? Is that because you are scared of fires, injuries or car wrecks, or is it because you just want to be prepared? Same thing applies to gun ownership.

The left want the rest of the public scared of gun owners. BBut statistica have shown that police officers are far more likely to commit crimes that people with concealed carry permits. The left wants people scared of shall issue, stand your ground and constitutional carry laws. But statistics show that states that enact those laws see violent crime rates go down.

So when it comes to guns, don't let the fear mongers sway you. Do a little research and you will see that guns are not the boogey man and we are not turning into the wild west fantasy land. What we need to work on is violence, not guns.

12/12/2019 7:25:49 PM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

Wouldnt a shotgun be better for home defence? Just saying if it was me lol. You can do what you want to defend your home. I dont see a dire need to have everyone be their own deputy out in the urban areas. The constitution mentions weapons as a tool to remain free. I think they were rightly worried about re-invasion by England at the time it was written. I am pretty sure those same people would write it differently now if we could transport them forward in time, to better reflect modern threats to freedom. But I would say the stop and frisk policy... They would have put Bloomberg in jail as an enemy, for being so clearly against their notion of liberty. Maybe he has changed but I doubt it. I think he wants a tracking device on every gun and for it all to be monitored 24/7 by computer.
We will all be guilty until proven innocent. We will all be wearing a digital ball-and-chain.

12/12/2019 8:08:20 PM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

Interesting points Iowegian. I dont expect a strong rebuttal to those arguments. As for me I am not an expert and I dont have anything else to say.

12/12/2019 8:18:45 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

A shotgun is not ideal for home defense for several reasons. Low ammo capacity, high recoil, heavy weight, long length makes it hard to maneuver in close quarters. And at close distances the shot does not spread out very wide. Not much advantage over a rifle. Slugs or buckshot can over-penetrate through walls, endangering innocent people inside and outside the home.

An AR-15 is light, short, easy to maneuver in close quarters. It has light recoil. Standard capacity is 30 rounds. The bullet is light and travels at very high velocity. It will shatter on contact with hard surfaces, posing less danger to unintended people. I wish I had an AR. My first inside defense weapon is my pistol.

Having a gun dos NOT make you a "deputy" or any other kind of police. It does not give you the right to enforce laws. I would NEVER interfere in a fight between people, because there is no way to know which one is right or wrong. Unless my family or myself are in imminent danger, my job is to call police, stay safe and be a good witness. I have no legal or moral responsibility to risk my life for someone else. If you want a licensed gun carrier to protect you, you need to be the protector yourself.

The founders were just as worried about their own government becoming tyrannical as they were worried about England. They understood human nature.

I agree with your opinion of Bloomberg.

12/12/2019 8:46:01 PM

DKrus

Cheshire Ma USA

Triggers don't ever pull themselves !! enough said !

12/14/2019 8:29:46 AM

Smallmouth (Team Ozark)

Missouri

I have no issues with much stricter laws when purchasing a gun. It's way too easy now, and if it helped dilute the killings here, it would be worth it.

12/14/2019 10:07:01 AM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

More laws won't help. They don't enforce existing laws. Criminals don't follow any laws, so more won't stop them. The laws would only infringe on the rights of law abiding people. The Texas church shooter got his gun because the Air Force didn't report his felony to NICS. 10,000 a year are stopped from buying a gun by NICS but only about 1% of them are ever prosecuted. In 1991, 2 idiots drove down our road shooting a shotgun. They got our neighbor's mailbox and tried to shoot out our living room windows. Right where we kept our son's baby swing when he was 3 1/2 months old. They didn't allow for the moving vehicle and just hit the siding. The sheriff caught them, charged then with felony terrorism as he should have. The prosecutor reduced the charge to disorderly conduct, so they can still buy guns. So as you can see, I want enforcement of the existing laws, not more restrictions on me.

Buying a gun isn't that easy. In my state to buy a handgun, you have to get a permit to buy or a permit to carry. The carry permit lasts longer but costs more and requires a training class. The sheriff runs the NICS check plus does a check of his own. To buy a long gun, you have to show ID, fill out the federal paperwork and then the dealer runs the NICS check. You can skip the NICS check if you have the handgun or carry permit that shows you passed the check. Private sales are not required to do the NICS check, but the seller is responsible to make sure the buyer can legally buy a gun. There are only 2 ways I would privately sell a gun: pay a FFL holder to do the paperwork, NICS check and record it on his books OR have copies of the buyers ID, permit to carry, a signed bill of sale with the gun's serial number, a photo of the buyer and the gun, and keep all of that in my safe deposit box at the bank forever.

12/14/2019 12:57:07 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

I have no problems with stricter laws when buying alcohol. Make everyone show state issued ID. No exceptions. Require the state to mark the ID of everyone who has ever had a DUI conviction. And if they have even one conviction they are barred from possessing alcohol for life. One strike and they are out. That would save far more lives than any unconstitutional infringements on the 2nd Amendment.

12/14/2019 12:57:30 PM

Smallmouth (Team Ozark)

Missouri

“Buying a gun isn’t that easy”

Come to Missouri, I have bought them at Bass Pro on lunch breaks. It takes me 30 minutes.

12/15/2019 12:57:23 AM

DKrus

Cheshire Ma USA

Try to buy a gun in Massachusetts. Now they want to turn gun ownership into an illness that the DR's will ask about and treat during your wellness visits. Welcome to the communist State of Massachusetts !!

12/15/2019 7:26:31 AM

TruckTech1471

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Buying a gun in Ohio is easy and painless as long as you have no criminal history and the NICS does its job. Where we tend to fall short as a nation is when states and municipalities fail to report. It's not the Second Amendment's fault.

No thanks DK. I'll stay clear of the northeast.

12/15/2019 7:46:43 AM

Duster

San Diego

Guns are not the issue, anything can be used as a weapon to kill lots of people, including vehicles as one example. The depravity of our culture and the human heart are the problem. This includes but is not limited to the following: Absence of God's Word being taught because it is under attack, absence of the family as the basis of society (a loving mom and dad committed to raising their children), and replacing God's presence with a Godless society that is full of rage, anger, hopelessness, and the like. The music, television, movies, etc promote pleasures that bring a temporary pleasure that fades to an empty loneliness. The human heart is the culprit in our current day and age. Amending the human heart is the only remedy to this problem. When you grow a giant pumpkin plant that is sickly and unhealthy do you blame the plant? No, you fix your soil, which is the environment in which it was grown. If the environment is unhealthy, fix the environment and the plant will get healthy. The amendments needed for our culture were already listed above. Unfortunately the left finds it is much easier to ban a gun than treat the true cause of the problem. And where I live in California, no stricter gun control laws exist in our country and we still have mass shootings.

12/15/2019 3:40:13 PM

MCPUMPKIN

Usa

I called the local LEO, over a washout Marine do-nothing, who lived next door.
The sgt started to step into me to me because I did not know the secret word(ohrah).
Only because my wife was witnessing the whole thing, did he change his tune.
He did not see her at first. One of his minions spoke up to let him know.
Once he saw that a witness(that EVERY judge would believe),he went all Bambi, and backed off of me.
So yes even local cops can turn tyrant. For the stupidest reasons.

Millions of American citizens are law abiding gun owners.
Once the people let the government decide what weapons they can have,it is all over for the bill of rights.
Criminal gangs get all the weapons they want.
People call the current President a tyrant. He could become one in a heartbeat.
Anyone in government can.

12/23/2019 8:09:56 PM

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