Home What's New Message Board
BigPumpkins.com
Select Destination Site Search

Message Board

 
Other Non-Pumpkin Related

Subject:  electrocution: cruel and unusual?

Other Non-Pumpkin Related      Return to Board List

From

Location

Message

Date Posted

G. Kins

Pirates of the Pacific

Apparently a man was executed by electric chair recently. Didnt everyone watch the movie Green Mile? I thought this was over with! The same way the Salem witch trials are over with... (are they?)
Its not a fun topic. Speaking rather soberly there are a few things I wonder,
1) electrocution might bypass normal pain blockers in the brain... In other words you might actually feel less pain if fed to a lion, because of the natural trauma response blocking or capping the total amount of pain the brain can process. Electrocution might bypass this. How is this still (and how was it ever) constitutional? The constitution clearly guarantees protection against 'cruel or unusual punishment' right?
2) what form of death is not in some way cruel and unusual? Is it time we just left ultimate justice to God?
3) is incarceration unfair to the families of victims, and to true justice?
...I do think incarceration leaves some survivors continuing to feel like freshly wounded victims. But a lot of that is based on primal fear, maybe not on rational justice. The real odds of any further harm, statistically, whether a perpetrator is permanently behind bars or in a coffin, is rationally about the same... zero. But, emotionally its almost impossible to process this. This is where it gets complicated. It may be healthier in the big picture or in the long run to detach from knee-jerk emotions, and suffer this rationalization? The benefit of leaving a perpetrator alive, ironically, is that any eventual forgiveness will benefit the victim more than the perpetrator. Killing the perpetrator might also kill the freedom to forgive a still-living person. So...
4) how important is the spiritual reckoning vs the physical justice? How can this be balanced?

Brandon

12/9/2019 5:51:38 AM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Can you imagine the pain felt by the murder victim? Like the ones burned to death in an arson fire? The ones gut shot who take several days to die? The ones in the Oklahoma City bombing who were crushed and pinned in the rubble and suffered for hours before they died? Do these kind of murderers deserve a clean, painless death?

What about the corrections officers who have to guard these animals? If they are in a state where capital punishment is not allowed, those killers know they can kill again and not face any more punishment. Is it right to put people in that danger just because we want to show mercy to merciless killers?

The people who wrote the constitution did not consider capital punishment to be either cruel or unusual. Hanging was a common punishment for murder. In France, people were getting their heads chopped off. The term "capital" punishment comes from the Latin work caput, which means head. Capital punishment literally means decapitation. We can't use the 8th amendment to outlaw the death penalty. The 5th amendment mentions "capital" crimes, "put in jeopardy of life or limb" and "deprived of life". Clearly they intended that some criminals would be executed.

12/9/2019 9:31:14 AM

Garden Rebel (Team Rebel Rousers)

Lebanon, Oregon

Either way I don’t think capital punishment is a deterrent. No sympathy for true evil.

12/9/2019 10:01:53 AM

Garden Rebel (Team Rebel Rousers)

Lebanon, Oregon

What is more alarming is that you wrote a dissertation about electrocution at 5:51 am!

12/9/2019 10:05:19 AM

Suburban Gardener

Western Washington

This thread is suspiciously troll-like.

12/9/2019 11:55:23 AM

G. Kins

Pirates of the Pacific

Agree, it's not a happy topic. But if we are going to be critical of the Islamic State and China (which we should) we should have our own moral compass figured out. We have capital punishment for traitors, with cruel and unusual forms of execution, and... So do they. A strange thing to keep me up at night, sure, but if we are going to be a true beacon of light to the world, we're going to have to not drag any of the darkness of past centuries, forward.

12/9/2019 6:30:34 PM

G. Kins

Pirates of the Pacific

Islamic State is now gone, thankfully, (Call this trolling if you want: thanks 100% to Trump 0% to Democrats). Maybe every Trump supporter is a troll, idk.

Now that Isis is defeated, seems like we should make progress here in our own backyard. Yes, it's hard though, admittedly.

12/9/2019 6:38:47 PM

G. Kins

Pirates of the Pacific

We need to follow our moral compass forward, regardless of any trolling.

12/9/2019 6:42:28 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

I don't think capital punishment is necessary in all murder cases. But some crimes are so horrible, and some criminals are so violent that justice demands it.

Capital punishment might not be a deterrent to some, but it prevents repeat crimes. Like attacks on corrections officers or other prisoners.

We should use the same reasoning that the liberals use to justify gun control to disarm honest citizens. "If it saves one innocent life, it is worth it." So if executing murderers will discourage just one person from killing someone, shouldn't we do that? Actually it is a great reason for allowing constitutional carry, like the 2nd amendment is supposed to guarantee. If honest people are allowed to carry guns for self defense, many criminals will not attack anyone because they are cowards and fear armed victims. That in itself will reduce the need for capital punishment. States that enact constitutional carry see violent crime decrease. And self defense is a right guaranteed by the ninth amendment.


12/9/2019 7:24:56 PM

Spudley (Scott)

Alaska

So where do you get the paperwork for that honesty test.

12/9/2019 8:42:51 PM

G. Kins

Pirates of the Pacific

In case anyone misread my intention, my intention was share philosophical self-reflection. My intent in posting was not meant to be taken out of the context of self-reflection, but now I see how it might be.

12/9/2019 9:37:39 PM

Porkchop(team sLamMer)

Central NY

Philisophical self- reflection out of the context of self- reflection....hmmm..sounds zen...while I ponder, what's that shit yer tomato plant is growing in?....

12/9/2019 10:01:14 PM

G. Kins

Pirates of the Pacific

I think its called, 'Unhappy Frog'. The package showed a picture of a dying plant. But it was on sale so I couldnt say no.

12/9/2019 10:44:01 PM

Porkchop(team sLamMer)

Central NY

Looks like kitty litter

12/9/2019 11:08:39 PM

G. Kins

Pirates of the Pacific

Lets just talk tomatoes? Its at 70 degrees even with the lights on, 35 percent humidity. Soil is crap yes. Messed it up somehow. My strategy is I am counting on everyone else to mess up theirs worse than I messed up mine.

Alright well... it was supposed to be a serious post but maybe we could all use a break. I could use a break. I do like worms, but not cans of them.

12/9/2019 11:20:42 PM

G. Kins

Pirates of the Pacific

Good idea, no extra fertilizer needed.

12/9/2019 11:22:20 PM

baitman

Central Illinois

They should be executed in the same way they killed the victim

12/10/2019 5:10:21 AM

OklahomaGPG

Southern Plains

How about suffocation under a rotting hay bale?

12/10/2019 7:15:53 AM

Wolfpack83 (Rebel Rousers)

central Nc

kitty litter + a can of worms = winning!

seriously tho, whats going on with the exchange?

12/10/2019 9:15:42 AM

Suburban Gardener

Western Washington

Thank you, Glenoma! The holidays are here and I could go for topics that bring people together and/or fun stuff, like kittens and presents and cookies and Christmas lights! Wheeeee!

12/10/2019 1:02:00 PM

Spudley (Scott)

Alaska

If honest people are allowed to carry guns for self defense, many criminals will not attack anyone because they are cowards and fear armed victims. So where is the paperwork for that honesty test Pro 2nd amendment true believers are against any regulation any accountability.
I believe we've already tried the everybody carry open carry it was called The wild wild West. That just led to people settling the smallest of disputes in the streets gunning one another down.

12/10/2019 4:04:27 PM

Spudley (Scott)

Alaska

Another point to make. Mass shooters they don't go in thinking they're going to escape it's a suicide mission so there is no fear.

12/10/2019 4:25:52 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Spudley, you watched too many fictional shows. The west was not that wild.

Lots of states have constitutional carry. Many states have passed "shall issue" laws, which means that if a person applies for a permit and is not disqualified, the issuing authority must give them a permit. Many states have also passed stand your ground laws.

Iowa has shall issue and stand your ground. Since each of law was passed, violent crime has gone down every year. Other states have seen similar drops in violent crime.

These laws do not allow you to use deadly force unless you are facing a threat of death or serious injury before you can even display a weapon. In the vast majority of cases where a gun is used for self defense, no shots are fired. The sight of a gun is enough to get the bad guy to run away. A gun is an equalizer; can put a granny on equal footing with a tough thug.

I carry every day. I avoid dangerous places. If possible I would try to get away from an attack. But being old and full of arthritis, I can't move very fast. My chances of being attacked are very slim, but if it happens I am ready. All I am allowed to do is stop the threat. If drawing the gun stops the threat, great. If I have to shoot, I can only do so until the threat stops. A lot more civilized that the Gunsmoke and Bonanza fantasies.

12/10/2019 5:17:47 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

Thanks Porkchop for pointing out the Glenomkins winter soil. I did not even notice it until it was mentioned. Wow, Brandon, that looks worse than what I have in my outside garden. Don't worry though, my winter grow will probably not survive. I am tripping circuit breakers every other day, and I still have another 20 amps of equipment waiting to be delivered to hook up. As of today, I am struggling to keep daytime temps under 90, nighttime temps above 60 and my daytime humidity is about 14 rh. The equipment coming will solve these issues, but where I am I going to find the amperage to run them.

Ooops, back to the thread topic. Electricity....seems a waste of a valuable resource to waste on the lowest of low of humankind. I vote we take a lesson from our ancestors and use some medieval methods. If some of those sentenced to capital punishment suffer for the last moments of their life...I have no sympathy.

12/10/2019 5:23:33 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Another misconception about mass shooters. They like soft targets where no one will fight back. Schools, government buildings, theaters where guns are banned. They know that it usually takes several minutes before police get there. Like the Parkland school shooter, the Colorado theater shooter who looked for the theater that banned guns. The one this summer in Ohio, where the guy killed his own sister was a fluke. Police had just happened to stop next door and could respond immediately. He hadn't planned that, it was just luck that the cops were there.

Or they hide out in a remote spot, like the Las Vegas shooter or the guy in the tower on college campus a number of years ago. The Washington DC snipers. The vast majority of mass shooters are cowards. Just like the bombers, like Oklahoma City or Boston Marathon. Set a bomb and run away.

12/10/2019 5:26:39 PM

Spudley (Scott)

Alaska

More NRA talking points mass shootings continue people die oh well who cares.

12/10/2019 8:53:44 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Dismiss the truth as NRA talking points? I was a NRA member back in the early 80's. I quit when it became evident they were more pro republican politics than pro 2nd amendment. NRA is on the way out. They turned into a cash generator for Wayne La Pierre, and definitely soft on protecting the 2nd. Pete Brownell, who's family owns the big gun business I visited last week quit as NRA president. Many prominent people are bailing out. The gun haters are going to have to come up with a new boogeyman soon.

Of course I want to see mass shootings end. Gun control is not the way. Just look at Mexico, where only the criminals, police and military have guns and the military and police are scared of the criminals. And where the criminals got a lot of guns from the Obama administration. How many were recently murdered there?

Just look at all the school attacks. The Orlando nightclub. The San Bernardino government building. Gun free zones. Even at Ft. Hood where the Muslim officer killed a bunch of people, our military people were not allowed to be armed. We send them into war but won't let them protect themselves at home. My daughter had someone try to break into her dorm room at UNI, and when police caught him he was armed. Another gun free zone.

Gun bans only make law abiding people defenseless. They don't stop criminals. It only makes things safer for them. Come up with some reasonable alternatives that make sense.

12/10/2019 11:08:18 PM

G. Kins

Pirates of the Pacific

lol bnot yes agree it should be used to grow tomatoes:)

12/11/2019 1:51:49 AM

MCPUMPKIN

Usa

Electrocution shuts down ALL bodily functions all at once.
Including thought.

12/23/2019 8:14:24 PM

Total Posts: 29 Current Server Time: 6/5/2020 3:00:53 AM
 
Other Non-Pumpkin Related      Return to Board List
  Note: Sign In is required to reply or post messages.
 
Top of Page

Questions or comments? Send mail to Ken AT bigpumpkins.com.
Copyright © 1999-2020 BigPumpkins.com. All rights reserved.