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Alaska

http://articles.philly.com/2012-01-19/news/30643424_1_drinking-water-water-wells-contaminants
When is the oil and gas industry gonna take responsibility for their screw ups and quit privatizing the profits then when things go bad socialize the cleanup costs. I worked in the O&G business for 20+ years and believe me you can't pump an unlimited amount of fracking fluid down hole and not have it eventually find its way back to the surface. Mark my words fracking for gas as is won't last long because it will affect thousands of water wells making the problem every-bodies problem. Remember we really don't have a zero tolerance clean water standard. We have what is called a permissible amount policy. Now that's scary! You can drink it but don't drink too much!

1/20/2012 4:42:47 PM

Alaska

I didn't mean "quit privatizing the profits" that's what private companies do. I do have a problem with private companies having the tax payer clean up there mess while all along denying any blame/fault/responsibility/accountability/guilt then allowed to continue on as if nothing happened.

1/20/2012 4:49:38 PM

Loudonville Oh

Spudley, the head geologist in Ohio says that fracking solution can not leach into well water from below. The only way it can get into well water is from faulty well casing instalation and surface splills. Still it should be taken very seriously. The same geologist said that land fills are a much bigger danger to well water contamination. Lots af nasty stuff in land fills.

Lake Erie is the source of drinking water for millions who live near it's shores. It's also the disposal sight for water from sanitary sewers. Every chemical flushed down toilets that cannot be removed ends up in Lake Erie. Not a pleasant thought,indead. Millions of fish and birds also use Lake Erie for their personal toilet.

Millions of tons of herbicides and insectides are dumped on top of US soil each year. The amount is staggering. Some of this undoubtable ends up in well water.

Unless you drink distilled water you are going to be drinking a certain amount of bad things. The world is a dirty place. It seems that for every benefit their is a related risk.

For practical purposes the operational phrase is simple this "dilution is the solution when it comes to pollution"

1/21/2012 1:46:13 PM

Alaska

I'm sorry but your head geologist is not speaking the whole truth. First the whole concept of fracking is to blow apart the rock. The rock that has trapped the gas and the same rock that separates it from the water aquifer. If you blow that up what's to stop it from migrating to the surface? It's one thing if you let it flow to the surface on its own but it's forced out of the rock with water and who knows what all else is added to the frack fluid. Then millions of gallons of waste water is forced back into the ground for disposal. They are called injection wells. Fluid will take the path of least resistance and where is that gonna be most likely? UP! Especially if gas is a part of that fluid and more than likely there will be some. Double trouble.
Shale is time sensitive to water. Meaning depending on how much clay is in the shale will determine how long the shale will remain a solid rock or start to blow apart/ run as it absorbs water. So I'd bet some sort of petroleum based product is used to slow down that from happening. In the end it's a crap shoot at best and if someone tells you it's safe and don't you worry we got it. You better bend over stick your head between your legs and you know the rest. Excepting pollution through dilution is a cop out! I hear folks all the time cry about the future of our children and grandchildren. I ask do you want to leave this planet in better shape than we inherited it? What does everyone have against clean air and water? No more cop outs! Stand tall!

1/21/2012 11:41:06 PM

Long Island,New York

I'm with spudley on this one and have had discussions with people from the midwest/central states on this here before and they are so bought into this hydraulic fracking for jobs and personal gain ect they will not see the issue anymore. The shortsightedness is sad. These are not permanent jobs created... but permanent problems created. Maybe they want the cleanup jobs their kids will no doubt have...but they'll be buying bottled water with their money made. Spuds- you have supporters but I just dont have the fight in my for this anymore.
Who hires the state geologist? Appointed? What happens when the related earthquakes alter the rock and create new groundwater passages...do the big oil companies raise their arms and say "oh well- it wasn't us- you cant stop mother nature'?

1/22/2012 8:12:02 AM

Loudonville Oh

LIpumpkin Tens of millions of Americans heat their homes and businesses with natural gas. As gas wells are depleted new sources must be found. Non-shale gas is getting harder to find and will eventually run out. How will these tens of millions heat their homes or should they go without heat? If you know how to provide all the necessary enery to heat all our homes and businesses without any environmental risks you need to let the world know immediately. If you have any natural gas seeds laying around I'll send you a SASB. I'll take all you can spare.

Spudley The phrase "dilution is the solution, when it comes to pollution" was strictly recreational on my part. I put that in to get your ire. I shouldn't have done that. I'm concerned about environmental issues like you are. I differ from you in that I think the solution, if any exist lies with the consumer and less with corporate America. I live a moderate life style and am very aware of how much resourse I use. I focus on that which I have direct control over, that's all I can really do. Gandi said "be the change you want the world to be". Not bad advise.

1/22/2012 1:44:08 PM

Long Island,New York

Its an easy search to see who the state geologist is and what he directs. Gee...no conflict there. Maybe we should research the guy who appointed him and his ties.....
Zloudonville....so how much that you say is just to get our "ire" anyway? What shall we take seriously? How do we know?
I am not any energy scholar, never claimed to be, nor do I aspire to be. Just a smoe like everyone else, maybe with some background. But, I do know that just because I don't know the answer to our energy "problem" doesn't mean I have to pick an obviously under-investigated and potentially disasterous technique that you support. The problems are just starting to show up now in the press but have been happening for a bit now....I think if you clean your glasses and look at the situation without bias you'll see that all the people are asking for is time to review and investigate the situation not outright ban it w/o study. Stop...investigate..clarify....when theres info enough to prove its safe then go with it. Right now theres reasonable doubt its safe.

1/22/2012 2:28:53 PM

Linden, Mi.,

zloudonville - Not Bad Advice - Not Bad at ALL !!!

1/22/2012 2:54:12 PM

Loudonville Oh

LIpumpkin, Ohio's previous Govenour Strictland, a very liberal Democrat, was also a supporter of shale fracking. Fracking into the shallower Clinton sand deposit has been going on for 50 years in Ohio. One of these Clinton sand wells is within 500 feet of my house and it has been fracked. There are dozens of these wells within a few miles of my house and I bet every one of them has been fracked. Some more than once. No gas well in Ohio can be drilled and put in production without an Ohio EPA inpector on site.

I'm no expert by a long shot, but this is what I know with 100 per cent certitude. If the Federal EPA had even the slightest doubt about both short term effects or long term effects then they would put a stop to shale fracking in a heart beat. Energy companies can do absolutely nothing with out Ferderal EPA approval. Obama is no friend to big oil.

1/22/2012 5:12:28 PM

Alaska

You mean like the Deep Water Horizon blowout in the Gulf? The President the Interior and the EPA gave into the GOP and look what it gave us. So who is the President no friend of? Keep looking for excuses.

1/22/2012 11:34:10 PM

Loudonville Oh

Spudley, I have a hard time staying out of energy debates, I guess it's gotten into my blood. Here's a few of my final(at least for now) thoughts.

In an article in the Mansfield News Journal, Mike Chadek of Energy in Depth, describes a promising new form of fracking that uses propane gel. He states there is no by-product so no injection wells are needed. He goes on to state that the estimated amounts oil (not gas) in the Marcellus Shale field could reach 87 billion barrels.

For most people against shale fraking this changes nothing. The smallest of risks is too great and no benefit will be large enough.

By my calculations 87 billion barrels of oil is worth about 9 trillion dollars. When you add in the value of the natural gas that number only goes up. All I've heard about the Utica shale is that it could be just as valuable. Time will tell. I live at the very western edge of the Utica. Drilling may not come to my area and I may never see one dollar. Nontheless every dollar made from shale fracking is one more dollar in the wallet of an American and one less dollar in the wallet of some Arab muslim. Call me a racist if you wish, I care not.

Here's what drives me to the edge of my sanity. Why do Americans, who demand a no risk energy policy, think that other nations that assume the risks should sell their energy to us at a price of our choosing????

1/23/2012 1:23:43 PM

Alaska

I'm not against doing it right but I'm speaking from first hand experience we ain't there yet.

1/23/2012 3:42:29 PM

Walworth Ny

Any one who says injecting Benzene into the ground for any reason is safe has not done much research. I do not trust the government or any company to tell me what is safe or wont harm me since they are all in bed with each other. This WILL affect some of my favorite fishing and camping places by reducing river and stream flow because of massive water use.
If they had a safe way to extract gas that would be great.
zloud you also mention heating our homes and the plan is to export much of the gas.
These figures just happen to be realesed today from the "experts" as to how much gas is in the ground.


About 141 trillion cubic feet of gas can be recovered from the Marcellus shale using current technology, down from the previous estimate of 410 trillion, the department said today in its Annual Energy Outlook. About 482 trillion cubic feet can be produced from shale basins across the U.S., down 42 percent from 827 trillion in last year’s outlook.

The department also said the U.S. may become a net exporter of liquefied natural gas in 2016 and a net exporter of natural gas in 2021. U.S. LNG exports may start with a capacity of 1.1 billion cubic feet a day in 2016 and increase by an additional 1.1 billion cubic feet per day in 2019, the department said

1/23/2012 7:06:09 PM

Usa

As long as the USA government allows speculators to own oil without windfall taxation,we will be paying high prices for oil.Who are/funds the speculators? Investment banks.
Cut out the speculators,and we will buy cheap oil.

1/24/2012 10:53:25 AM

Alaska

Yes I totally agree MCPUMPKIN!

1/24/2012 2:04:22 PM

Lakeville, OH

zloudonville...shoot me an email. lewis.morris@scotts.com
I have a nice article on fracking...

1/26/2012 1:43:21 PM