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Subject:  Are we learning our lessons?

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Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

The terrorist nation of Iran never paid anything in reparations for capturing our embassy 40 years ago. Our tax payers compensated our people. Obama, who tried to commit us to a sham nuke deal all on his own, returned the assets that Carter froze along with billions in interest. Since getting that money, Iran has attacked Saudi Arabia, harassed Persian Gulf shipping, shot down our unarmed drone, is holding joint naval training with China and Russia, and now is funding terrorists who attacked our embassy in Iraq.

Have we learned the lesson that Obama taught us about appeasing terrorists ?

2 years ago, a person who should not have been allowed to buy a gun, did just that and killed 27 people in a Texas church. He was stopped by an armed neighbor. Texas learned a very hard lesson, and changed their law to allow people to be armed at church. Just 2 days ago, many lives were saved when an armed person stopped a church shooter. 2 innocent victims died but it could have been much worse.

My questions are, did the rest of the country learn a lesson this week about allowing people to have the ability to defend themselves? And did we learn a lesson 2 years ago that gun laws don't work when the government won't enforce them?

12/31/2019 10:59:32 AM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

Yeah, except it sounds like that guy shouldnt have been allowed to have a gun. How did he get a gun? Nevertheless, well trained and well armed citizens is shown to be an excellent solution to psychotic violence. How can this be seen any other way? Bash the NRA and the founding fathers if you want to.

12/31/2019 7:01:27 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

Iowegian, please don't take offence. I am looking at writing and speech from my daughters debate experiences. In debate, they must be prepared to take either side. When I read your first statement...it is all good except for the word "sham". That is using a judgmental adjective as fact. I admit I do not know as much about the Iran situation as I should. As an independent, I do not want someone to tell the conclusion in the presentation of the facts. Given good facts, I can come up with my own judgement. Sham made it harder for me to read.

Currently, Iran is not of great importance in my life. And since I do not know as much as I could, it has not been of top importance in my life in previous years. From the facts you presented, the first question in my mind is: What is the timeline of all these actions and did the Trump change cause a change in the actions. Foreign policy is definitely a presidential issue. I happen to think, that it might not be one of Trumps strong abilities.

On gun control...I can't think about it. I have been pro 2nd amendment for too many years. I think that will never change.

12/31/2019 7:15:23 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

thinking about it...i think replacing sham with the word controversial would be better. Sorry about the english objections...when I read todays news organizations reporting...I get the same judgmental adjectives.

12/31/2019 7:18:57 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

reading and more reading. Assets frozen by Carter (democrat) released by Obama (democrat). Not a cross party manuever. I would really think that Obama, had conversions with Carter during his presidency. I wonder if any previous republican president is willing to advise Trump. Sorry for the multiple posts...I am doing nothing on this New Years eve.

12/31/2019 7:52:52 PM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

I thought taking out Isis was a humanitarian move. But I am worried Trump will slide into the unintelligent morass of middle eastern killing that has way too many innocent victims. How would we like it if someone killed 25 of our national guardsmen? I think hezbollah has horrible hostile rhetoric but i most nations do have skeletons in their closets if you look at what the right wing israelis os saudis believe and take it at face value, its very extreme and threatening too. I thought you were anti war libertarian, I think fox news is playing with your brain ... Get their hands off the knobs bud.

12/31/2019 9:09:12 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Reagan learned a lesson about sending troops to the Middle East. He sent peace keepers to Lebanon. They weren't wanted, nearly 300 died in a bombing. He brought the troops home. Bush the First didn't learn the lesson, we had Iraq War I, and it was down hill from there. Bush the Worst was going to free Iraq with Iraq War II. We were heroes for a few month, then insurgency. We aren't wanted there.

They all forgot the lesson that Kissinger and Carter taught us. Be a neutral facilitator and we can get peace. Shuttle diplomacy and the Camp David meeting without a single soldier on the ground.

1/1/2020 1:35:54 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Trump has tried to get us out of the stupid wars but the swamp has us stuck there. Obama sent troops into Syria to assist rebels fighting Assad. But we were fighting ISIS who was also fighting Assad. We helped Kurds fight ISIS, but they don't get along with our ally Turkey. When Trump got out of the Kurd/Turkey skirmish, he was accused of favoring Turkey, even though they are buying weapons from Russia. Russia helps Assad, and when Trump attacked Assad for using gas, some Russians got killed. But Trump is accused of favoring Russia, even tough he put sanctions on them over Ukraine. But Trump is accused of putting the squeeze on Ukraine even though he sent them military aid that Obama denied to Ukraine. And when Trump tried to investigate Biden for threatening to withhold aid to Ukraine, he is accused of doing the same thing. but what Biden did was OK.

What lessons are to be learned from this mess? Maybe we need to get out of the middle east and stay out. Maybe we need to listen to Eisenhower and crack down on the military-industrial complex. We spend more on war than the next 20 nations combined. We sure didn't learn that lesson that he tried to teach us.

1/1/2020 1:40:50 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

I feel that the middle east is a hornet's nest. The first I remember of any discussion about the area was during the 1973 oil embargo. I was 11 at the time. I know that US history in that area precedes that time. The oil reserves there were of such global importance that US presidents could not ignore it. Iowegian, It looks like from your history review that each president has tried a different tactic.

I feel that we are not quite as hostage to middle eastern energy right now. This is partly because we have given up some environment safety for energy safety. I agree. I think we should move out of the middle east and put those resources to work on clean alternative energy. Can't we have both energy and environment at the same time?

1/1/2020 2:01:25 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

I was in college in 1973. We have seen BIG environmental improvements since then. California was obscured by smog. Lake Erie was dead, the rivers flowing into it would catch on fire. Cars are now much more efficient and pollute much less. My state now gets 1/3 of our electricity from wind, and the southern part of your state has huge wind farms. I burn nothing but E-10 or E-15 in my vehicles, using less fossil fuel.

We are having energy and environmental gains at the same time. There is much more that we can do. We are letting tremendous energy flow down the Mississippi River without being used. All those navigation dams could generate power. We can use some of that war budget to develop clean energy. Weapon makers can start building wind, solar and hydro equipment. We just have to get out of the war business. And beat it through Trump's thick skull that wind power, although not the total solution, is still a big plus.

1/1/2020 4:48:52 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

When it comes to Iran, it looks like there are many lessons that can be learned. It appears that Trump might be on similar path as previous presidents. Reaction to the current situation has been purely partisan.

I had some extra time today, so i decided to learn a bit more. I read the wikipedia entry for Iran. Actually quite interesting if you have an interest in history. Our lifetimes are just a fragment of the timeline of that area.

I would prefer not to have to learn history of the middle east to make a wise choice for voting....effect of ethylene on plants is much more interesting to me. The parties (and the slanted news) are not giving me that choice. I have to believe, they are not thinking what is best, they are thinking about which way they can sway voters.

Which way to go, when you think neither side is considering all the implications. I am really wish there was a purple party.

1/3/2020 3:03:46 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

Glen, my zoo grammar is worse than yours. I really need to take more time to proofread before hitting the enter key. Post enter corrections can not be made.

1/3/2020 3:20:06 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

The lesson to learn from the Middle East is not rocket science. They do not want us there. Iran was an ally, we supported the Shah. When I went to community college in Clinton, IA, we had several Iranian students. The Shah would send good students anywhere in the world, and they liked the small town to transition to American universities. But they didn't like us, kicked out the Shah, over ran our embassy. The Saddam was out ally in fighting the Iranians. But he turned on us. We helped the Afghanistan resistance run the Soviets out, then they became the Taliban and Al Qaeda and you know what happened then. In Iraq War I, Syria was our ally, but that didn't last. The Iraqis liked us for eliminating Saddam, but then they turned on us. Reagan sent Marines into Lebanon to calm down the civil war, and they bombed their headquarters.

The other lesson is that you don't appease tyrannical, evil governments. We should have learned that from Hitler. But Obama and Europe tried to appease Iran with a nuke deal that would let them develop nukes. Obama paid a ransom for hostages in cold hard cash, then returned their frozen assets with huge interest. They used the money to finance more attacks. Obama became the Neville Chamberlain of the 21st century.

1/3/2020 7:52:55 PM

Spudley (Scott)

Alaska

Like I said before as long as there's massive amounts of oil in the middle East and enough people believe the baby Jesus was born there we're never leaving.

1/3/2020 8:46:34 PM

Fissssh

Simi valley, ca

There is a lot of people who trust trump, And there's even more who do not ! I am on the side that dos not! Every speech he makes is mostly ridiculous bragging about his successes ! I really do not trust anything he does ! My first thought is he wants to get in on some killing before he leaves office !

1/4/2020 3:18:54 PM

Fissssh

Simi valley, ca

But who really knows , But that is why '''not''' to act like a psycho nut job ! ,because when there is an important situation you got this -B S like you got now !!

1/4/2020 3:25:41 PM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

Ugh. I am no longer pro Trump. There was no upside to that. Lots of downside like wasting our wealth. & So much for America first, now sending our men into danger.

1/5/2020 12:48:37 AM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

He thinks he is the messiah of the jews... Right? If thats true then we can kiss America first and draining the swamp goodbye. I dont believe he is the messiah of the jews. I think he is just deeply insecure and that was unwise and for his own personal gratification. Perhaps I am wrong. The truth is we are seeing an extreme deviation from his usual diplomacy and tough talk. I think he is hiding from us that he has fully rationalized WWIII. And the 'Thou shalt not kill' Evangelicals will be the last to realize what it is they are supporting! I am disappointed that our Christians are supportive of another killing-crusade. How did a guy who raped his wife win a single Christian over? Wasnt sure what I was seeing before but I have seen the light now thank you.

1/5/2020 1:34:03 AM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

If voters want him because appeared to be the lesser of two evils then he would be incorrect to interpret that as an 'appointed-by-god' moral blank check. I will shut up... you are correct in thinking I should probably be doing other things.

1/5/2020 1:48:12 AM

spudder

Glenoma Kins , too many people are religious but very few are Christian. The two are vastly different.

1/5/2020 5:06:16 AM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

He is making threats not yet backed by Congress. I think all three Abrahamic religions are supposed to follow the ten commandments. The weight of this situation is above and beyond just Christianity... its hard for Christians to bear this weght alone. If the region wants peace they'd better tell Trump to take a hike.

1/5/2020 5:57:53 AM

spudder

A lot of people profess to be Christian when in fact they are just religious. Religious people talk the talk but do not walk the walk.
Answer me this, why do the hardcore followers of Abraham constantly want to go to war? It is not the softcore followers that are the problem. Unfortunately most of the leaders and their followers are hardcore.

1/5/2020 8:12:57 AM

Jane & Phil

Ontario, Canada

You Americans are all messed up. The American media spins the news so bad that no one knows the truth anymore. Now you cheer for your enemies & protest your leader.

Fisssh Says "My first thought is he wants to get in on some killing before he leaves office". Are you on heroin? That is typical crap coming from a democrat. You are an idiot sir.

What is wrong with you people? If trump had info about an attack on Americans by this guy & his state sanctioned terrorists & did nothing, then you would attack him for that. Get real & stand behind your country, even if you don't agree with the leader. Supporting the Iranians & protesting your leader makes you all look weak. This guy is responsible for taking the lives of hundreds of Americans soldiers, but still the Democrats/left won't support their own Government. Very sad.

You know I really don't like our leader in Canada right now, but I will support them when it comes to the nations security. 100%. Not support for the enemy like the Dems/left are doing now. Shame on you all.

1/5/2020 10:22:05 AM

TruckTech1471

South Bloomfield, Ohio

The economic squeeze has crippled Iran, as it was intended, and this president has had it with being extorted and paying off rogue regimes the way every previous president before him in recent history has. Now Iran knows the real stakes.

The good general had the blood of many Americans on his hands already and it was no coincidence he was vacationing in Iraq at the time our embassy was attacked.

When an embassy is attacked, a country is attacked.

1/5/2020 10:25:31 AM

Porkchop(team sLamMer)

Central NY

Ditto Jane and Phil

1/5/2020 10:58:17 AM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

Americans have a lot of experience with involvement in wars that were thought by some people to be of questionable nature . It has been all my life starting with the Vietnam War. When I look at the history of that region, I can see how some there could hate the US. When you look at the US involvement there, for the last 50 years, I am afraid that the US is not completely innocent. Actions have built upon previous actions for the span of many presidencies.

In this current situation...I agree, there is much we do not know. The intelligence reports, probably will never be made public. The partisan divide is what is concerning. The white house is not sharing the info with top democrats. The parties are using this instance to try to promote their campaigns.

Of course, we should mindful of national security. At the same time, we should be looking for good set of actions to untangle us from this middle east web that we have been involved in for the past 50+ years.

Which action in case would have been better. I do not know, but as you said Jane and Phil...no one knows the truth here anymore. I have been reading BBC and Reuters, UK based news just to try to maintain a sense of impartiality.

1/5/2020 11:22:36 AM

TruckinPunkin

Greencastle, PA

It’s a good idea to read about the history of Operation Ajax and the Shah prior to the Islamic revolution of 1979.

Imagine for a minute that some other country had deposed our president and imposed a dictator to secure access to our natural resources. That’s what happened in Iran.

1/5/2020 12:44:39 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

thanks TrunkinPunkin....that was in 1953. 67 years later...effects are still apparent.

1/5/2020 1:15:32 PM

Spudley (Scott)

Alaska

Whatever will get him relected or pad his pocket he will do. He claims to be a Christian but nothing in his past history supports his claim. Hell he set up a non profit charity then used it for himself. His motives are so obvious. He constantly lies then blames the media for correcting him. It's the old Communist party propaganda campaign strategy.

1/5/2020 7:22:10 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

spudley, I think you either need to back up in time or go forward in time. How do we resolve an issue that started before we were born? I mentioned the wiki article on Iran. Have your read it? Do you know about the persian empire. The future...do we want to break the record for longest antagonism in history. I worked with an Iranian immigrant mechanical engineer during the gulf wars. I had compassion for him..he had much negative thoughts to deal with. I feel that the Iranian culture could contribute much to global progress. You are throwing the subject back to trump...this is beyond trump. Throw it back to Eisenhower.

1/5/2020 7:44:01 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

We can all thank Neville Chamberlain Obama and his European Quislings for the current mess. They tried to appease an evil regime and failed. The nuke deal let Iran keep enriching uranium. Lifting sanctions to help them generate more cash. Paid a ransom for hostages, returned assets with huge interest. They used the cash to build up their military and carry out attacks. A total screw-up by the elitists who love to hate Trump. And now Trump has to fix it while the democRATS are stabbing him in the back every chance they can get.

Trump was left with no choice. Our embassy was attacked. The same as if they attacked one of our states. The military leader who organized the attack arrived to plan more attacks. No different than when our military went after the Japanese fleet before Congress declared war. If Trump had done nothing, the democrats would have screamed about that. Trump really was not prepared for the quicksand swamp that the rats had created.

My hope is that Trump tells Iraq to pound sand and lets Iran eat them for lunch. T%hey aren't worth one more drop of blood or one cent. We will never be able to trust them. Let Iran overextend themselves and deal with the insurgency that is sure to follow.

It is becoming obvious that Bush and Obama are the 2 worst presidents we have ever had. They make Nixon look like a saint.

1/6/2020 11:31:33 AM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Spudley, the media looked at Trump as a novelty until the realized he would be the republican nominee. Then they declared war on him. Around the clock attacks on him and his family. They went so far as to rig the debates. They gave Hillary (or is that Hiltary) the debate questions. It is the old Nazi party propaganda agenda. Hitler demonized the Jews. The media demonizes Trump. And Hitlary's supporters hate the one their fearless leader attacked, and the people that she branded as deplorable. The media/propaganda agency succeeded in spreading hate. Just like the Fuhrer did.

The difference is that Trump has the ability to fight back. And the media hate it.

1/6/2020 11:51:57 AM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

I am pretty sure my idea of 'make America great' has diverged from Trump's. If the ship is sinking let the captain go down. Patriotism? Heck yeah, but 'Humanity first' military, second. I dont see Trumps humanity lately. As a passenger sure I care about the boat... But... am I under some oblgation to drown if the captain stupidly hits an iceberg? I have no right to jump ship... I have to follow the captain into the abyss?

1/6/2020 12:53:25 PM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

I thought Trump was a good guy despite raping his wife. (does that sound insane?) Now he sounds like he wants to defy moral boundaries using my countries armed forces? No, thanks.

1/6/2020 1:00:08 PM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

Stick with him if you want to but for me its not healthy. My kids are part Iranian. I am biased. I just wish Trump would put America first... He seems to be bored or discouraged with putting America first. And certainly the dems have not helped him enjoy being American. Apparently he wants to be a middle easterner now.

1/6/2020 1:19:05 PM

bnot

Oak Grove, Mn

I can see how this situation could get to you, Glen. Developments in Korea affect me similarly. My daughter is part Korean. I am not sure what to think of the current situation but it is bound not to improve in the near future. I hope you can teach your kids...to be proud of that part of their heritage. Stress things like 10th and 11th century, when Persia was the leader in literature, philosophy, mathematics, medicine and art. And lets hope some future leader can undo the untanglements of the last 70 years.

1/6/2020 5:37:40 PM

G. Kins

Southwest WA

Bush's entire work in the Middle East did nothing good whatsoever. Debt, damaged and killed men..., If we can't learn from history just a dozen years ago... how can we appreciate a dozen centuries worth of history.

We have sufficient oil for our needs, especially with the rate of manufacturing Tesla is at. The only other reason to be there is politics/religion. And boredom. I'm honestly think Trump is just bored.

1/6/2020 8:06:12 PM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Trump has a legal and moral obligation to defend our embassy. It is our sovereign territory and the people there are our citizens. The military leader who planned the attack is not off limits.

I don't want war. Congress is spineless. They passed the buck on starting wars to Bush and his successors. They never repealed that unconstitutional transfer of power.

Bush had no intention of cleaning up his own mess. Didn't try to take out Bin Laden. He really screwed things up and bailed out. Obama tried appeasing Iran. He knew that by the time they spent all the money he gave them for weapons, he would be out of office.

Not only did Bush and Obama leave Trump an economic mess, they left him with a multi front war and armed our biggest threat in that region. Maybe we don't agree with everything Trump has done. He certainly made mistakes. But he isn't shirking his responsibilities. He is tackling the job head on.

1/7/2020 10:09:26 AM

Spudley (Scott)

Alaska

Well that's your opinion.

1/7/2020 1:58:08 PM

john boy

virginia

very true words jane and phil

1/7/2020 2:35:06 PM

Spudley (Scott)

Alaska

You better be careful there Phil. Trump hates your man Trudeau. He might just invade Canada make it a part of the United States. Something tells me you would like that though. Lol!

1/7/2020 5:23:12 PM

Jane & Phil

Ontario, Canada

LOL Scott. I doubt that. Too many liberals here for that. Trudeau & his band of socialists are going to bankrupt this country. Like most liberals, they spend without knowing/caring how to pay for it. Hopefully the federal conservative party find a good leader that appeals to more to the people. They are the only party that believes in a good fiscal policy.

1/8/2020 10:40:06 AM

Iowegian

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

What is sad is people who use the actions of our President to protect our citizens as a reason to hate him. The democrats talk a big line about equality for women, then defend a country that treats women as property. All because they lost an election and they just can't stand it.

Iran has chanted "death to America" for 40 years. The held 52 people hostage for 444 days. They fought a bitter war with Iraq and now they are trying to take it over again. They sponsor terrorists. They attack shipping. They shot missiles at Saudi oil facilities. They shot down our drone.

Oh, but they are the victims of the big bad real estate tycoon. He is so bad you have to make up crazy stories about invading Canada. Sounds to me like somebody's clutch is slipping.

1/8/2020 12:42:21 PM

spudder

The plain truth of what happened in Canada is the fiscally irresponsible Liberals had the fiscal situation in hand and were paying off the countries debt. They got punished for a 90 million adscam. Along comes the fiscally responsible Conservatives and Stevey boy makes a large tax cut for the filthy rich so they could ship more offshore to safe havens. This took Canada from a large surplus to a large deficit which ran the debt back up and gave the tory cronies more safe haven money. That is not what a fiscally responsible or morally responsible person or party does.
The future generations should not be paying off debt so the rich can have more money to hide offshore.

1/8/2020 12:58:10 PM

TruckTech1471

South Bloomfield, Ohio

That Alaska pot is some good stuff, eh spuds?

1/11/2020 12:22:22 PM

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